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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 2, 2015 9:24:30 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly every major title introduced at Marvel between Stan Lee's reign as EIC and Jim Shooter's was cancelled by the mid-'80s. The Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Power Man & Iron Fist, Team-Up, Two-in-One all had runs of around 100 issues but were gone by the time Shooter launched the New Universe line. The only significant survivors from that period were the X-Men revival, the two Conan titles, Spectacular Spidey and Star Wars. Maybe it was simply a matter of sales but it's almost like he decided to purge anything not created by Lee/KirbyDitko (or didn't fit his narrow editorial vision). And what took their place? Corporate comics, either spin-offs of successful books, mini-series featuring characters from those franchises, crossover events or licensed titles based on toy lines. Sad. Cei-U! I summon the post-mortem! Yeah, but many of those characters continued on in some form or another. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 2, 2015 15:45:40 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly every major title introduced at Marvel between Stan Lee's reign as EIC and Jim Shooter's was cancelled by the mid-'80s. The Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Power Man & Iron Fist, Team-Up, Two-in-One all had runs of around 100 issues but were gone by the time Shooter launched the New Universe line. The only significant survivors from that period were the X-Men revival, the two Conan titles, Spectacular Spidey and Star Wars. Maybe it was simply a matter of sales but it's almost like he decided to purge anything not created by Lee/KirbyDitko (or didn't fit his narrow editorial vision). And what took their place? Corporate comics, either spin-offs of successful books, mini-series featuring characters from those franchises, crossover events or licensed titles based on toy lines. Sad. Cei-U! I summon the post-mortem! Across both companies, were Conan and PPTSS the only 70s books to survive for a significant time? Even Spectacular was essentially rebooted as something similar wasnt it? That early/mid 80s did seem to be the start of "corporate comics" as you put it Cei-U, we get multiple Bat/Supes/JLA/Avengers/Spidey/X titles, spin-offs ad nauseum, and lowest common denominator mini/maxi series. Its a trend the industry hasnt escaped from, even beyond the big 2, look at the endless stream of licensed product from Dark Horse, Dynamite, IDW, and Boom. Sure some are okay, but its hardly unbridled creativity to ride someone elses gravy train. At least Image exists now, which is ironic (now did I get that right? it is isnt it?) considering how they started. I get that the business has to make money, and that putting out multiple Bat-books/spin-offs etc is as old as the industry(it was a key strategy of Stan Lee's boss in the 40s and 50s wasnt it), but 30 years ago they went into overdrive. Maybe with the Batman movie going into production, and certainly with its success, the promise of all that filthy lucre to be made through Hollywood killed any chance of actual creativity. Because we all know that more of the same is so much better for us. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Nov 2, 2015 15:52:11 GMT -5
Many of them that I miss have already been mentioned: Levitz' Legion, the All-Star Comics revival, the Defenders, the Avengers from around issue 100 to 200, Howard the Duck, Omega the Unknown, Brave & Bold, Marvel Two-in-One, 100 Page Super-Spectaculars (with all those glorious reprints), among others, and one that I don't think was mentioned yet, the Marvel Presents run of the original Guardians of the Galaxy by Steve Gerber.
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Post by Action Ace on Nov 2, 2015 16:26:07 GMT -5
I definitely miss the pack of artists trying to copy Neal Adams. Super Friends! JLA/ JSA and guest star team ups Had I been around in the first half of the decade... Silver Age and Golden Age reprints Thankfully, the out of control price inflation hasn't gone out of style.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 17:25:37 GMT -5
Adventure Dollar Comics
Superman Family
Batman Family
DC Tabloid Editions
Defenders
Marvel Team Up
Brave and Bold
DC Comics Presents
70s Wonder Woman
Super Friends
DC Special
Summer JLA/JSA team ups
70s Avengers
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 2, 2015 20:19:12 GMT -5
Micronauts
Rom
What If
Batman Family
Superman Family
Freedom Fighters
Shazam
yes, Treasury and Limited Collectors editions
and 100 page giant reprints too
both Marvel & DC Tarzans
All-Star Comics, the original Earth-2 characters, and JLA/JSA summer crossovers
Master of Kung Fu
Tomb of Dracula
undergrounds
Sgt Rock
Jonah Hex
and more than anything else : being able to get the whole story buying 1 title, or maybe 2 if they're really big, like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man
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Post by gothos on Nov 3, 2015 15:51:52 GMT -5
I think it's probably true that the "offbeat superheroes" probably became more and more marginalized in the 1980s and 1990s, unless they had the benefit of a Big Name Artist. Retailers, faced with a supernatural kung-fu book and another X-Men imitation from the Big Two, probably ordered more heavily on the latter. OTOH, keep in mind that the DM did sometimes nurture specialty books that weren't necessarily aimed at the core readership. I still remember getting on the ground floor with 1993's STRANGERS IN PARADISE, and being astonished as to how the book caught on despite its lack of fantasy-elements. However, now I think that it actually had an advantage due to that lack, in contrast to many of the 90s titles that tried to cut into the markets of the Big Two (the Malibu-verse, the Dark Horse-verse). The thing is, a book like Strangers in Paradise could survive and thrive on a much smaller economic scale and circulation number than anything form the big 2 could, and taking off and being successful meant that it was still likely selling below what a cancellation number would have been if it was a big 2 book. Small press and self-published books have an advantage in a market where the retailer not the publisher takes the risk and are sold on a non-returnable scale in that they are almost guaranteed sell through numbers on their print run and can do multiple printings if readership demand grows (and books like Love and Rockets, Strangers in Paradise, Elfquest etc. all had multiple printings of issues as their readership grew-but monthly grind big 2 comics usually only get 1 print run and its on the next issue-except for the Star Wars comics, additional printings for big 2 comics were unheard of until the 90s when the newsstand was dead and gone and then it was only big ticket books like Death of Superman tie-ins or Bane breaking the Bat type events), allowing for those small off beat titles to grow form small press publishers, but not form the big 2 with their established monthly production line schedule. So books like Strangers in Paradise are a different animal than off-beat B-list big 2 books like say Kamandi or House of Mystery or Micronauts where SiP can thrive in the direct market while others die on the vine and are crowded out of the market because retailers own't take the risk on them. SiP and books of that ilk can survive (and even thrive) selling 8K copies of an issue, even the lowest tier big 2 book can't break even with those kind of sales because of the scale of publishing operations behind them. -M Since all of this supports what I said, I cannot do other than concur. |
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Post by berkley on Nov 3, 2015 17:25:06 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly every major title introduced at Marvel between Stan Lee's reign as EIC and Jim Shooter's was cancelled by the mid-'80s. The Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Power Man & Iron Fist, Team-Up, Two-in-One all had runs of around 100 issues but were gone by the time Shooter launched the New Universe line. The only significant survivors from that period were the X-Men revival, the two Conan titles, Spectacular Spidey and Star Wars. Maybe it was simply a matter of sales but it's almost like he decided to purge anything not created by Lee/KirbyDitko (or didn't fit his narrow editorial vision). And what took their place? Corporate comics, either spin-offs of successful books, mini-series featuring characters from those franchises, crossover events or licensed titles based on toy lines. Sad. Cei-U! I summon the post-mortem! Yeah, but many of those characters continued on in some form or another. It's the form in which many of them continued that was the problem, as fas as I can see. Dracula as star of his own series? Classic. Dracula as a 3rd rate supervillain? Just that, third rate. Similarly with Shang Chi and many other characters. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 3, 2015 19:19:00 GMT -5
Yeah, but many of those characters continued on in some form or another. It's the form in which many of them continued that was the problem, as fas as I can see. Dracula as star of his own series? Classic. Dracula as a 3rd rate supervillain? Just that, third rate. Similarly with Shang Chi and many other characters. Mate you got it right there, the form in which they survive is the key. Shang-Chi has been shit since the series finished. Every appearance Ive seen has him as a carbon copy martial artist, and while I love me some Bruce or Jet Li, the kung fu has never translated to comics. It was the philosophy and political intrigue that made that book IMHO. Dracula only ever worked being vaguely connected(like MOKF was too), god the horror of Dracula during Fear Itself or one of those other crossovers was worse than a pair of undies full of vamps. I miss the try out books like Premiere, Spotlight, or Feature. The list of (semi)great titles they gave us makes them a nostalgia favourite for me. |
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 4, 2015 2:16:19 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly every major title introduced at Marvel between Stan Lee's reign as EIC and Jim Shooter's was cancelled by the mid-'80s. The Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Power Man & Iron Fist, Team-Up, Two-in-One all had runs of around 100 issues but were gone by the time Shooter launched the New Universe line. The only significant survivors from that period were the X-Men revival, the two Conan titles, Spectacular Spidey and Star Wars. Maybe it was simply a matter of sales but it's almost like he decided to purge anything not created by Lee/KirbyDitko (or didn't fit his narrow editorial vision). And what took their place? Corporate comics, either spin-offs of successful books, mini-series featuring characters from those franchises, crossover events or licensed titles based on toy lines. Sad. Cei-U! I summon the post-mortem! I think you may have something, there... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 3:23:28 GMT -5
Action Ace and mrjupiter - jarred my Memory Bank - I like the SuperFriends, Marvel Team-Up, DC Comics Presents, and a occasional Shazam too.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 4, 2015 18:37:12 GMT -5
I miss all the treasury size comics, as well as the DC dollar comics and 100 Page Super Spectaculars.
Master of Kung Fu is one of my favorite extinct 70's titles, though the Defenders is good, too. If the Micronauts are considered a 70's book, then that would be #1 on my list.
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Post by gothos on Nov 4, 2015 18:48:26 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly every major title introduced at Marvel between Stan Lee's reign as EIC and Jim Shooter's was cancelled by the mid-'80s. The Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Power Man & Iron Fist, Team-Up, Two-in-One all had runs of around 100 issues but were gone by the time Shooter launched the New Universe line. The only significant survivors from that period were the X-Men revival, the two Conan titles, Spectacular Spidey and Star Wars. Maybe it was simply a matter of sales but it's almost like he decided to purge anything not created by Lee/KirbyDitko (or didn't fit his narrow editorial vision). And what took their place? Corporate comics, either spin-offs of successful books, mini-series featuring characters from those franchises, crossover events or licensed titles based on toy lines. Sad. Cei-U! I summon the post-mortem! I noticed that the toy adaptations became far less prevalent when DeFalco took over from Shooter, FWTW. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Nov 4, 2015 22:46:49 GMT -5
To answer the thread, all of them. I want the 70's back in general so that I can exist then and collect comics as they are meant to be...printed on newsprint, 25 cents and on a spinney rack.
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 5, 2015 4:27:56 GMT -5
To answer the thread, all of them. I want the 70's back in general so that I can exist then and collect comics as they are meant to be...printed on newsprint, 25 cents and on a spinney rack. I just want the 70s back because I'd far prefer to be living there than in 2015. I am not a fan of the 21st century. |
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