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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 3, 2015 6:17:02 GMT -5
I never understood the appeal of ROM either, but then almost everything Marvel came up with in the 80s is lost on me. I won't go so far to condemn all of the 80's but This book and the Dazzler stand out for me as too books that couldn't survive without constant Guest stars.
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Post by dupersuper on Dec 3, 2015 14:36:51 GMT -5
Change of subject - sort of. I never had any love for comic book adaptations of movies or TV shows. I don't think you can properly capture the excitement of moving pictures in a comic book. There. I said it. The adaptations are usually lame, but I often very much enjoy licensed comics/novels (Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, Doctor Who, Firefly, Farscape, Fringe, X-Files, Supernatural, Grimm, Once Upon a Time, Big Trouble in Little China, Galaxy Quest, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, etc....), so will get them just to put them in their place among the other stories.
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Post by dupersuper on Dec 3, 2015 14:39:43 GMT -5
Nah, If it's not for you, what can I say? There are franchises that I would never watch as well. I haven't seen one minute of the Hunger games or Harry Potter movies. HA! I haven't even touched a single Hunger Games thing. And I probably never will. I've seen the Harry Potter movies and read through book 4 (I think?), however, I can barely name a single Harry Potter name or anything. People are constantly categorizing things into the various houses, and I never get it. I am clueless. I'm Hufflepuff, myself.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Dec 3, 2015 15:41:04 GMT -5
Early Reed Richards was interesting too. The weak link was always Johnny Storm. Johnny and Sue were both weak links. Sue was pretty pathetic. All she ever did is yell "how can we ever defeat such a powerful foe?" and/or get captured. But yes, Johnny sucked too. Ben carried the book for me, and Reed was very good, too. I paradoxically have to agree with this, even though the Lee/Kirby and then Byrne FF runs are among my favorites. I like Reed, Sue and Johnny (they all improved over the years, though I think Reed has stayed pretty much the same) but the Thing and Dr. Doom are such superior characters that they make those standard archetypes look extremely bland by comparison. As much as I praise Stan and Jack for their progressive attitudes on the race issue, they dropped the ball big time when it came to women. John Byrne still doesn't get enough credit for what he did for Sue's character.
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Post by Warmonger on Dec 4, 2015 23:56:15 GMT -5
Grant Morrison is to writing comics what Rob Liefeld was to drawing them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 0:22:33 GMT -5
Grant Morrison is to writing comics what Rob Liefeld was to drawing them. I liked All Star Superman. Don't like anything by Rob Can't Draw Feet Liefeld.
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Post by Warmonger on Dec 5, 2015 0:42:07 GMT -5
Grant Morrison is to writing comics what Rob Liefeld was to drawing them. I liked All Star Superman. Don't like anything by Rob Can't Draw Feet Liefeld. Only thing I really care for is his run on Animal Man. I tried re-reading some of Doom Patrol, and despite liking it 20 years ago...the amount of nonsensical psychobabble from the main cast is ridiculous. I think the overwhelming majority of his work is a bunch of convoluted tripe. Tries to be "deep" and "edgy" and tries to bring a lot of off the wall ideas to the table...but damn near never develops them coherently. Hell, he essentially ruined Batman before Snyder came along to pick up the pieces. I also think that he and Warren Ellis are the two biggest arrogant, pretentious douchebags in the business today. They try to be Alan Moore. Problem is, they have a fraction of the ability.
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Post by berkley on Dec 5, 2015 1:25:01 GMT -5
I think both Morrison and Ellis are highly talented, certainly in the top 5 or so writers working in English-language comics, that I'm aware of. My main problem with Morrison is that I feel he's dissipated his talent over too many years writing mainstream DC characters like Batman and Superman; and with Ellis that he tends to write too much fragmentary material, coming up with a good idea, writing a few issues, and then abandoning it before it's really had a chance to grow into something substantial.
Whether Morrison's ideas are tripe or not is I suppose open to debate, but I don't see any particular arrogance there. From the interviews and articles I've read he seems to be entirely serious about the ideas that recur in his writing - which does of course leave him open to criticism from another direction, but certainly not the sort expressed here, as far as I can see.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Dec 5, 2015 2:13:35 GMT -5
I feel pretty much the same as Warmonger. They have talent, so I would never say they're the equivalent of Rob Liefeld as writers. It's clear that both of them are bright guys who have read more in their lives besides 80's Marvel/DC comics and a CliffsNotes version of the Bible. I do agree that they're overrated and not nearly as talented as Alan Moore. The main problem I have with them is that I don't think they're a good fit for mainstream Superhero comics. It's clear to me that Morrison and Ellis were right at home at Vertigo and that's where their best material was created. I read a bit of Transmetropolitan and The Invisibles, and while nether grabbed me, I could see that both series fit their sensibilities far better than their Big Two stuff.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 5, 2015 6:18:03 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Morrison's JLA, X-men and All Star Superman. He's a top writer that increases sales, no doubt.
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 5, 2015 10:46:13 GMT -5
I find Snyder to be a poor man's Morrison. Court of Owls was just a rippoff of the Black Glove mixed with Hush. It took until the Zero Year before Snyder had a single original idea. And Death of the Family is perhaps the most overrated piece of crap DC has published since the reboot.
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Post by Warmonger on Dec 5, 2015 11:06:05 GMT -5
I find Snyder to be a poor man's Morrison. Court of Owls was just a rippoff of the Black Glove mixed with Hush. It took until the Zero Year before Snyder had a single original idea. And Death of the Family is perhaps the most overrated piece of crap DC has published since the reboot. I'm not a huge Snyder guy either, but at least he isn't trying to constantly reinvent the wheel like Morrison. It's like Morrison is always trying to show off how creative he can be, but he goes totally overboard and it's usually a huge detriment IMO. Grant Morrison doesn't write Batman or Superman stories...he writes Grant Morrison stories with those characters crammed into them.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 5, 2015 11:09:49 GMT -5
Grant Morrison is to writing comics what Rob Liefeld was to drawing them. I liked All Star Superman. Don't like anything by Rob Can't Draw Feet Liefeld. An awful lot of what Morrison writes is way over-rated. Supergods was not good at all. I still can't believe nobody in the editing process asked him if he really wanted to compare Stan Lee to Mussolini. It's more stupid than offensive. I'm sure Morrison thought he was being edgy (he thinks that a lot) but he's frequently not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. But I love All-Star Superman! It's my second favorite Superman story. Also, Flex Mentallo!
Meanwhile Rob Liefeld's got nothing but his millions.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 5, 2015 14:12:17 GMT -5
I liked All Star Superman. Don't like anything by Rob Can't Draw Feet Liefeld. Only thing I really care for is his run on Animal Man. I tried re-reading some of Doom Patrol, and despite liking it 20 years ago...the amount of nonsensical psychobabble from the main cast is ridiculous. I think the overwhelming majority of his work is a bunch of convoluted tripe. Tries to be "deep" and "edgy" and tries to bring a lot of off the wall ideas to the table...but damn near never develops them coherently. Hell, he essentially ruined Batman before Snyder came along to pick up the pieces. I also think that he and Warren Ellis are the two biggest arrogant, pretentious douchebags in the business today. They try to be Alan Moore. Problem is, they have a fraction of the ability. I have to say that I've read easily a dozen interviews with Warren Ellis and while he may be opinionated I've never seen him as being arrogant in any way. Indeed he's usually pretty self-deprecating. You can not like his work, that's fine. But attacking his character because you don't like his work is pretty unnecessary.
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Post by Warmonger on Dec 5, 2015 16:16:32 GMT -5
Only thing I really care for is his run on Animal Man. I tried re-reading some of Doom Patrol, and despite liking it 20 years ago...the amount of nonsensical psychobabble from the main cast is ridiculous. I think the overwhelming majority of his work is a bunch of convoluted tripe. Tries to be "deep" and "edgy" and tries to bring a lot of off the wall ideas to the table...but damn near never develops them coherently. Hell, he essentially ruined Batman before Snyder came along to pick up the pieces. I also think that he and Warren Ellis are the two biggest arrogant, pretentious douchebags in the business today. They try to be Alan Moore. Problem is, they have a fraction of the ability. I have to say that I've read easily a dozen interviews with Warren Ellis and while he may be opinionated I've never seen him as being arrogant in any way. Indeed he's usually pretty self-deprecating. You can not like his work, that's fine. But attacking his character because you don't like his work is pretty unnecessary. Here's just one of the quotes that I've come across...and hey, it's in regards to Morrison and his detractors... "Since most people who cite a 'convoluted mess' in regards to Grant's work turnout to be unable to pass a high school English comprehension test, said citation tends to be viewed as comedy." - Warren Ellis Sure sounds like an uppity douchebag to me
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