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Post by berkley on Feb 2, 2016 18:24:32 GMT -5
The Shocker's yellow patch quilt costume is the best ugly costume ever designed by Marvel. There, I said it. I always kinda liked that costume, no idea why. Maybe the quilted padding seemed appropriately shock-absorbing.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 3, 2016 8:44:39 GMT -5
I thoroughly loathe the idea of established Marvel characters having been LMDs for decades. Ack ptooh!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 9:36:10 GMT -5
I thoroughly loathe the idea of established Marvel characters having been LMDs for decades. Ack ptooh!!! Yeah, but . . . it kinda works for Dum Dum. Let's face it, it's getting really hard to accept characters who fought in WWII still fighting bad guys today. And the contrast between Dugan's rough&ready, down-to-earth personality finding itself as a series of hi-tech robots gives the idea a nice extra bit of depth. Plus, they're doing some cool NoMan-type stuff with it in the current Howling Commandoes book.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 3, 2016 10:12:36 GMT -5
I thoroughly loathe the idea of established Marvel characters having been LMDs for decades. Ack ptooh!!! Yeah, but . . . it kinda works for Dum Dum. Let's face it, it's getting really hard to accept characters who fought in WWII still fighting bad guys today. And the contrast between Dugan's rough&ready, down-to-earth personality finding itself as a series of hi-tech robots gives the idea a nice extra bit of depth. Plus, they're doing some cool NoMan-type stuff with it in the current Howling Commandoes book. True, but I'd much rather have Dum-dum and the other surviving Howlers to have been unwittingly treated with serum XYZ at some point in the past. Fury's own longevity was such an ex post facto revelation, after all, and I'm sure Captain America's super soldier serum was not meant to extend his life until the passage of time made it necessary that it did. I find the LMD stuff annoying because (a) I hate most retcons anyway, and (b) so many old stories cease to make sense when we retroactively claim that this guy or that guy were not really who we thought they were. The Delta affair, for example... Are we to understand that all the major players replaced by LMDs were... other LMDs? How does that make sense? Constantly replacing characters with androids, Skrulls and Space Phantoms retroactively, we come up with stories in which nobody is who they claim to be, making plots illogical. That may not matter for new readers who don't care about old tales they never read, but it's still galling for older readers; and what's more, if we focus on new readers, why even bother to explain past discrepancies? That's one retcon I hope will itself be retconned away!
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2016 12:09:42 GMT -5
Yeah, but . . . it kinda works for Dum Dum. Let's face it, it's getting really hard to accept characters who fought in WWII still fighting bad guys today. And the contrast between Dugan's rough&ready, down-to-earth personality finding itself as a series of hi-tech robots gives the idea a nice extra bit of depth. Plus, they're doing some cool NoMan-type stuff with it in the current Howling Commandoes book. True, but I'd much rather have Dum-dum and the other surviving Howlers to have been unwittingly treated with serum XYZ at some point in the past. Fury's own longevity was such an ex post facto revelation, after all, and I'm sure Captain America's super soldier serum was not meant to extend his life until the passage of time made it necessary that it did. I find the LMD stuff annoying because (a) I hate most retcons anyway, and (b) so many old stories cease to make sense when we retroactively claim that this guy or that guy were not really who we thought they were. The Delta affair, for example... Are we to understand that all the major players replaced by LMDs were... other LMDs? How does that make sense? Constantly replacing characters with androids, Skrulls and Space Phantoms retroactively, we come up with stories in which nobody is who they claim to be, making plots illogical. That may not matter for new readers who don't care about old tales they never read, but it's still galling for older readers; and what's more, if we focus on new readers, why even bother to explain past discrepancies? That's one retcon I hope will itself be retconned away! Totally agree. These "revelations" invalidate stories that had real emotion from the past. I'm happy to have a mind that can easily detach the present stories from the past stories. EX: Infinite Crisis , the follow up to COIE, never happened in my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 12:22:54 GMT -5
Huh. Well, what he said was 'I'm happy to have a mind which can easily detach the present stories from the past stories.' Which works both ways. I'm happy to roll with what they're doing w/Dum Dum these days, and not worry about how it retroactively affects old stories. And if I ever read about that Delta affair, whatever that was, I'll 'forget' the whole LMD bit and read it as originally written, as happening to the real characters. I'm flexible that way.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2016 12:36:20 GMT -5
Huh. Well, what he said was 'I'm happy to have a mind which can easily detach the present stories from the past stories.' Which works both ways. I'm happy to roll with what they're doing w/Dum Dum these days, and not worry about how it retroactively affects old stories. And if I ever read about that Delta affair, whatever that was, I'll 'forget' the whole LMD bit and read it as originally written, as happening to the real characters. I'm flexible that way. Its has to work both ways in this hobby. Otherwise how could anybody accept the New GL stories after he murdered the Lantern corps?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 12:52:14 GMT -5
Huh. Well, what he said was 'I'm happy to have a mind which can easily detach the present stories from the past stories.' Which works both ways. I'm happy to roll with what they're doing w/Dum Dum these days, and not worry about how it retroactively affects old stories. And if I ever read about that Delta affair, whatever that was, I'll 'forget' the whole LMD bit and read it as originally written, as happening to the real characters. I'm flexible that way. Its has to work both ways in this hobby. Otherwise how could anybody accept the New GL stories after he murdered the Lantern corps? Oh yeah. Read a superhero comic, and you have to have a willing suspension of disbelief for the whole superpowers thing. But read them for any length of time, and you have to develop a deeper willing suspension of disbelief that the characters you're reading about today are the same as the characters you read about in the past. Even though they are. It's tough, being a comic fan, eh? And that Green Lantern thing doesn't bother me. Keep in mind that Hal was killing the other Lanterns to get their power, so he could change time and create a timeline where he never killed the other Lanterns. So their deaths were meant to be temporary, even by comic book standards. It was for their own good. Remember - Hal Jordan Can Do No Wrong. There. I said it.
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 3, 2016 13:10:11 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a story or character or artwork that is so bad it's good. Making a bad/stupid/ugly comic worse/stupider/uglier doesn't improve it in any context.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2016 14:21:31 GMT -5
Its has to work both ways in this hobby. Otherwise how could anybody accept the New GL stories after he murdered the Lantern corps? Oh yeah. Read a superhero comic, and you have to have a willing suspension of disbelief for the whole superpowers thing. But read them for any length of time, and you have to develop a deeper willing suspension of disbelief that the characters you're reading about today are the same as the characters you read about in the past. Even though they are. It's tough, being a comic fan, eh? And that Green Lantern thing doesn't bother me. Keep in mind that Hal was killing the other Lanterns to get their power, so he could change time and create a timeline where he never killed the other Lanterns. So their deaths were meant to be temporary, even by comic book standards. It was for their own good. Remember - Hal Jordan Can Do No Wrong. There. I said it. I feel much better now. He killed everyone to save them.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 3, 2016 15:00:16 GMT -5
EX: Infinite Crisis , the follow up to COIE, never happened in my mind. With you there. I'm at the point where COIE was a Bobby Ewing event, too.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 3, 2016 16:43:25 GMT -5
Huh. Well, what he said was 'I'm happy to have a mind which can easily detach the present stories from the past stories.' Which works both ways. I'm happy to roll with what they're doing w/Dum Dum these days, and not worry about how it retroactively affects old stories. And if I ever read about that Delta affair, whatever that was, I'll 'forget' the whole LMD bit and read it as originally written, as happening to the real characters. I'm flexible that way. It was a good story, the first one to really exploit the "SHIELD is corrupt" plot all the way to its logical conclusion. It was published in the Nick Fury vs SHIELD maxiseries in the late '80s. In a nutshell, the story shows how rogue LMDs slowly infiltrated SHIELD, AIM and HYDRA, replacing key characters with dopplegängers. Fury found out but was then hounded by his own organization, now led by duplicates of Sitwell, Koenig, Quartermain, Wu and others. Only Dum-Dum, Gabe Jones and the countess emerged alive. (Naturally enough, after a few years, it was "revealed" that the dead agents had just been put in stasis... so they could be killed again at a later date). The ending was pretty dramatic in that SHIELD and HYDRA had ceased to exist. Nowadays that's almost par for course but back then it was something pretty daring.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2016 17:03:03 GMT -5
EX: Infinite Crisis , the follow up to COIE, never happened in my mind. With you there. I'm at the point where COIE was a Bobby Ewing event, too. When COIE first was published, I was naive enough to believe it was a MAJOR event never seen before and it would change everything. The story itself really could have reset the DC universe. I say Could have. It they had cancelled every title and started over with all #1's, it might have worked. A missed opportunity.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 3, 2016 18:35:23 GMT -5
With you there. I'm at the point where COIE was a Bobby Ewing event, too. When COIE first was published, I was naive enough to believe it was a MAJOR event never seen before and it would change everything. The story itself really could have reset the DC universe. I say Could have. It they had cancelled every title and started over with all #1's, it might have worked. A missed opportunity. Great point about restarting the whole line. Trying to make sense of who remembered the crisis and who didn't and which characters had never existed and that pocket universe thing. And forget the Legion. That was a clsterfck, too.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 3, 2016 19:29:05 GMT -5
When COIE first was published, I was naive enough to believe it was a MAJOR event never seen before and it would change everything. The story itself really could have reset the DC universe. I say Could have. It they had cancelled every title and started over with all #1's, it might have worked. A missed opportunity. Great point about restarting the whole line. Trying to make sense of who remembered the crisis and who didn't and which characters had never existed and that pocket universe thing. And forget the Legion. That was a clsterfck, too. But I will always remember what a major move it was to kill off the Earth 2 mainstays and other worlds for this 12 issues.
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