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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 8:06:57 GMT -5
I think all artists benefit by having a separate writer working with them. Except for maybe Starlin, all artists/ writers have run out of ideas after a while and their work becomes weaker. And even Starlin has been critiqued for using the same theme over again. There are very few exceptions but I like Byrne better with another writer, Frank Miller with another writer. You get the gist. There I said it. Will Eisner Eisner is just the star of that list. Stan Sakai Jeff Smith Herge Jack Katz Joe Sacco Druillet Linda Medley Colleen Doran Carla Speed McNeil Bryan Talbot Paul Pope Terry Moore Scott McCloud etc. etc. etc. not to mention all the great adventure and humor strip creators like Milton Caniff, Walt Kelly, and others. There's strength in collaboration to be sure, but not everyone needs a collaborator and having an assembly line to churn out comics is a necessity for the American comic business in its dominant model and it's Pavlovian trained fans who need a monthly fix or go into the DT's, not necessarily a boon to creativity or even a benefit to all creators. The assembly line mainstream model is an obstacle creators have to overcome to still make good comics, not a tool towards helping them do so. There I said it! -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 9, 2017 8:11:36 GMT -5
I will say , that of the artists that I have read, they usually run out of steam with ideas and begin to recycle their stories.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 8:17:39 GMT -5
I will say , that of the artists that I have read, they usually run out of steam with ideas and begin to recycle their stories. That's because they work in mainstream comics where the status quo has to be maintained and there's only so many times and so many stories you can tell where nothing ever changes and the characters come right back to where they started. It's a flaw in the system, not in the creators. If you have to maintain the same starting point over and over again, there are only so many directions you can go and eventually you wind up doing a big circle because you have to get back there to do it all over again. -M
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Post by MDG on Aug 9, 2017 9:04:25 GMT -5
I will say , that of the artists that I have read, they usually run out of steam with ideas and begin to recycle their stories. That's because they work in mainstream comics where the status quo has to be maintained and there's only so many times and so many stories you can tell where nothing ever changes and the characters come right back to where they started. It's a flaw in the system, not in the creators. If you have to maintain the same starting point over and over again, there are only so many directions you can go and eventually you wind up doing a big circle because you have to get back there to do it all over again. -M Ironically, I think this would be less of a problem if editors had a stronger, more collaborative, role and there wasn't a tendency, fed by fans, to "let creators do what they want."
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Post by Spike-X on Aug 9, 2017 20:54:21 GMT -5
I think all artists benefit by having a separate writer working with them. Except for maybe Starlin, all artists/ writers have run out of ideas after a while and their work becomes weaker. And even Starlin has been critiqued for using the same theme over again. There are very few exceptions but I like Byrne better with another writer, Frank Miller with another writer. You get the gist. There I said it. Stan Sakai and Los Bros Hernandez still seem to be cracking on alright.
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Post by Spike-X on Aug 9, 2017 20:55:19 GMT -5
Late 60s DC covers were much better designed and executed than those of Marvel.
There, I said it.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 10, 2017 6:24:31 GMT -5
Late 60s DC covers were much better designed and executed than those of Marvel. There, I said it. More gorillas, that's for sure.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 10, 2017 11:02:47 GMT -5
Late 60s DC covers were much better designed and executed than those of Marvel. There, I said it. as long as one eschews drama, yes.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 10, 2017 13:56:38 GMT -5
Late 60s DC covers were much better designed and executed than those of Marvel. There, I said it. Agreed and since we're here... '60s DC was, overall, stronger than '60s Marvel. Marvel was all the same stuff... Superheroes, some westerns, some romances. The best of the best was very good - but it was all a little formulaic. DC had so much other stuff... The Big 5 War books, science fiction, Sugar and Spike, Secret Six, Hot Wheels, Blackhawk, Sea Devils, Lois Lane the Adventures of Dobie Frickin' Gillis... Even the DC superhero books (while not as good overall as Marvel, IMO) felt very, very different from each other - in a way the Marvel comics didn't - depending on different editorial styles. Doom Patrol read nothing like Green Lantern read nothing like Superboy read nothing like Dial "H" for Hero.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 10, 2017 13:59:08 GMT -5
I think all artists benefit by having a separate writer working with them. Except for maybe Starlin, all artists/ writers have run out of ideas after a while and their work becomes weaker. And even Starlin has been critiqued for using the same theme over again. There are very few exceptions but I like Byrne better with another writer, Frank Miller with another writer. You get the gist. There I said it. You read Cerebus, right? Was this a specific knock on late-period Cerebus? I mean, I absolutely 100% disagree with your thesis, but I think it is important that we all spend a lot of time talking about how bad late period Cerebus is. Because it is SO BAD.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 10, 2017 14:30:04 GMT -5
I think all artists benefit by having a separate writer working with them. Except for maybe Starlin, all artists/ writers have run out of ideas after a while and their work becomes weaker. And even Starlin has been critiqued for using the same theme over again. There are very few exceptions but I like Byrne better with another writer, Frank Miller with another writer. You get the gist. There I said it. You read Cerebus, right? Was this a specific knock on late-period Cerebus? I mean, I absolutely 100% disagree with your thesis, but I think it is important that we all spend a lot of time talking about how bad late period Cerebus is. Because it is SO BAD. That would warrant a thread all its own! I thought the comic (and not the unending diatribes in the back pages) was very, very good all the way to (and including) the end of Going home. I was by then very angry at Cerebus, the character, but the comic was very realistically showing the collapse of a relationship due to the utter selfishness and incapacity to appreciate others manifested by the main character. It was painful, but impressive. Then Dave Sim really went into his strange religious obsession. The first few chapters about ice hockey in Canada were all right, but not as intriguing as what had gone on before. The three stooges episodes did nothing for me. Then we had what amounted to, basically, an off-panel resolution to a story arc that had lasted for more than a decade: the fate of the Cirinist revolution. Either as a social commentary of as a self-contained story, it seemed surprisingly light when compared to earlier efforts. The last day had that strange, monumental but also pretty pointless rewriting of the Torah, and that part was a chore to read (for me at least). The book did gain traction at the very end, however, when Cerebus confronted Shep-shep... At that moment, I had the impression that we might be on the brink of Cerebus telling a story again. Alas, it was time for the book to end.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 10, 2017 14:34:16 GMT -5
Ha! Yeah, general agreement. I have tried several times but. can. not. make it through the Bible Fan-Fiction.
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Post by MDG on Aug 10, 2017 15:46:56 GMT -5
Late 60s DC covers were much better designed and executed than those of Marvel. There, I said it. ....read nothing like Dial "H" for Hero. Well, to be fair, nothing read like Dial "H" for Hero. But I love late silver/early bronze DC covers, especially non-superhero ones. The mystery books were especially gorgeous, where most Marvel "horror" books had covers that looked like the rest of the line. Let's pick a month at random, and a pretty strong one for both companies. I'd give DC the edge. DC on sale July '68Marvel on sale July '68
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 20, 2017 10:19:23 GMT -5
On day I'm going to have to lock myself in a room with some no-doze and a pile of about 200 comics to make a dent in my to- read pile.
There I said it.
Or maybe I could hire a Cleaner to make my problem go away.
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Post by Jesse on Sept 8, 2017 12:38:24 GMT -5
The current Superman Reborn costume (not to be confused with the Superman Rebirth costume) is his best look since the red shorts! There I said it. ![](http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/845/395650_20170322135945_large.jpg)
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