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Post by tonebone on Nov 15, 2022 10:15:30 GMT -5
Man, you said it. I might have made this comment here before, but I was extremely disappointed and shocked to learn Orson Scott Card is extremely anti-LGBTQ+ to the point he's written extensively on the topic. Which is SHOCKING to me because I cannot fathom how the person who wrote Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead could have such a profound understanding of empathy for the "other" group and yet do the same himself. It short-circuits my brain. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. My wife has say that MANY times.. I agree 100% OSC is a real mystery. It's simple. He's a real writer. He's able to distance what HE believes from what his characters believe. That used to be a thing. He's a grown man who is able to write a story about a child, or a woman, or a Native American, and make you believe in the characters. Christopher Priest has said he's sick of being offered "black" projects... he said he's a writer, and can write about anything or anyone, not just "characters who look like him". It's limiting and reductive, and deprives the world of possibly great works. OSC being kicked off of Superman was the first example of cancel culture I can remember, and it was a harbinger of what was to come, and has now shaped how content is created, and who is invited or allowed to create it. |
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Post by tonebone on Nov 15, 2022 10:19:52 GMT -5
I am somewhat amused at all of us struggling to rectify and make sense of the mind of a guy who worships a 3000 year old snake god that lives in his toilet. I am even more amused that this got posted on Page 666 of this thread.  |
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Post by impulse on Nov 15, 2022 10:26:01 GMT -5
My wife has say that MANY times.. I agree 100% OSC is a real mystery. It's simple. He's a real writer. He's able to distance what HE believes from what his characters believe. That used to be a thing. He's a grown man who is able to write a story about a child, or a woman, or a Native American, and make you believe in the characters. But it's not just about being able to write a character that is believable. It's that those works inherently require such a profound understanding of empathy that it's mind-boggling the same human could have that understanding and still hold awful views. I have a hard time finding my words on this topic. Ok, it's like...it's so innate in the writing that I don't see how someone could fake it. It seemed to deep and real an understanding to fake. Maybe I'm wrong and OSC in his prime was an AMAZING WRITER who could fake it so convincingly. Either way disappointing. I'm sure many of the media historians here could point to other examples, and it's not as if the guy is barred from writing anything. He is just not being allowed to play with other people's valuable intellectual property. For all the fuss about cancel culture, a lot of it is far more likely capitalistic self-interest than any kind of moral pearl-clutching. Do you think cold, corporate behemoth cut so and so from a title for saying controversial remarks because they morally disagree or because they believed so-and-so was now a liability and would cost them money? I personally struggle with my line of separating the art from the artist. I try to as reasonable, but there is a point where I can't financially support someone and feel good about it. That's a whole other can of worms, though. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 15, 2022 10:54:43 GMT -5
I agree with Impulse... I also think maybe he's lost it a little bit. The original Ender books and the Alvin Maker series are amazing.. some of my all time faves. The stuff he's written since is alot less so. There's Empire, which is basically 'what if the extreme right rebelled and took over' (at least that's what the first book seemed to be doing for.. I didn't continue). His Ultimate Iron Man was so bad they immediately retconed it. Maybe they used his politics as an excuse to correct a bad decision in picking him in the first place.
In his prime, he could write a great Superman, and I'd love to see 80s OSC write the current Jon Kent. Today? not so sure.
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Post by impulse on Nov 15, 2022 12:11:24 GMT -5
I agree with Impulse... I also think maybe he's lost it a little bit. The original Ender books and the Alvin Maker series are amazing.. some of my all time faves. The stuff he's written since is alot less so. There's Empire, which is basically 'what if the extreme right rebelled and took over' (at least that's what the first book seemed to be doing for.. I didn't continue). His Ultimate Iron Man was so bad they immediately retconed it. Maybe they used his politics as an excuse to correct a bad decision in picking him in the first place. In his prime, he could write a great Superman, and I'd love to see 80s OSC write the current Jon Kent. Today? not so sure. People do change. I know he also had a pretty big stroke a while back which set him back in some ways. I'm not sure if that was limited to motor skills or if there was any cognitive or personality impact. Whatever the reason, it's hard to reconcile the old Ender and Alvin Maker writer with the current guy, for sure. |
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 15, 2022 12:31:41 GMT -5
I had a very nice conversation with OSC at a Con some years ago. We talked about hi Homecoming books. I said it seemed to me an atheistic view of the Universe with a computer becoming an actual God. He agreed and said that "God" was also crazy. It was hard for connect that person with the homophobic, right-wing scribe of later writings.
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 15, 2022 12:57:44 GMT -5
It was hard for connect that person with the homophobic, right-wing scribe of later writings. Sometimes it's hard to know what sort of perspective lurks behind a person's outward appearance
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 15, 2022 15:25:20 GMT -5
My wife has say that MANY times.. I agree 100% OSC is a real mystery. OSC being kicked off of Superman was the first example of cancel culture I can remember, and it was a harbinger of what was to come, and has now shaped how content is created, and who is invited or allowed to create it. The Hollywood Ten have entered the chat. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 15, 2022 16:04:59 GMT -5
OSC being kicked off of Superman was the first example of cancel culture I can remember, and it was a harbinger of what was to come, and has now shaped how content is created, and who is invited or allowed to create it. The Hollywood Ten have entered the chat. Well, darn. And here I was hoping the (former Dixie) Chicks would show up. |
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 15, 2022 16:15:02 GMT -5
Fatty Arbuckle
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 15, 2022 16:15:12 GMT -5
Oh no, another closed thread in 3...2...1...
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Post by impulse on Nov 15, 2022 16:28:07 GMT -5
Oh no, another closed thread in 3...2...1... You think?? Everyone seems to be on very good behavior from what I can tell unless I missed something. Who are those guys in the boots coming here? Is that a giant hook? |
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 15, 2022 16:36:15 GMT -5
Oh no, another closed thread in 3...2...1... You think?? Everyone seems to be on very good behavior from what I can tell unless I missed something. Who are those guys in the boots coming here? Is that a giant hook? Anybody want to start a thread about the Cosby Show? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 15, 2022 17:08:56 GMT -5
Seems like a safe topic …
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 15, 2022 17:47:57 GMT -5
Seems like a safe topic … Louis C.K. is moderating. |
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