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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 13, 2018 14:47:58 GMT -5
My taste in science-fiction has always preferred time-travel to 'spaceship stuff', so my interest in 'Legion' stories that didn't somehow involve time-travel was much lower than the stuff that included Superboy, Supergirl, or the much less frequent 'Legionnaires visit Smallville in the time bubble'. The stuff actually set in the 30th century never held my attention for long. It was like they were trying to do 'Star Trek with superheroes'...none of whom were as fun/interesting as a Federation starship crew.
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Post by speakerdad on Aug 13, 2018 17:17:38 GMT -5
This is the series that started it all for me.
In the mid 70's I found my uncle's stash of 60's - 70's DC, Marvel, Dell, etc...which included a large lot of Adventure Comics starting with #300 and I was hooked.
So many great creators and characters, hopefully things turn around for the Legion at some point in the near future.
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 13, 2018 17:26:53 GMT -5
I added Supergirl & The Legion #16-25 to a regular order so hopefully can read that sometime soon. Too many reviews comparing it favorably to the main Supergirl title at the time which i did like okay, but this sounds better, plus the Legion!
They made time-travel too commonplace a thing through overuse in the old comics, became another super power of convenience like the flight rings (although loved that Blok needed two rings). It was used well enough in the new Supergirl tv show up until Reign kills a bunch of cast members and Kara turns back time (then saves them and defeats Reign).
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 14, 2018 7:44:50 GMT -5
I tend to agree, at least in that the Legion doesn't need Superboy and Supergirl, and I saw kinda happy with the title change with #259. However, yeah, I guess DC felt they needed that Superman Family hook to keep sales up. I think Superboy is fine as a reserve member who shows up every once in a while, but not needed as a regular member. The LSH with Superboy (or Mon-El) has the same problem as the JLA with Superman (or Shazam!), which is too vast a power disparity between its members, spoiling dramatic tension. It's the same problem as the X-Men with Xavier or Phoenix around, or the New Mutants with Magik. When you have a bunch of heroes with individual limited powers and then one person who's a whole toolbox of strong powers, problems ensue. Well, I don't mind Mon-el being in there, and one of the great things about the Legion is that the cast is so huge, and their area of jurisdiction is so large, that you can easily ignore super-powerful members for stretches at a time, and credibly use the "their on missions elsewhere in the galaxy" excuse. However, I do agree with you main point, and definitely true with Superman, Phoenix, et. al. It's tough to make Green Arrow useful when Superman is right there. What's Ollie gonna do that Superman can't do much better and much faster, with no risk? Good thing somebody invented kryptonite, I suppose.
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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 14, 2018 17:25:22 GMT -5
I added Supergirl & The Legion #16-25 to a regular order so hopefully can read that sometime soon. Too many reviews comparing it favorably to the main Supergirl title at the time which i did like okay, but this sounds better, plus the Legion! They made time-travel too commonplace a thing through overuse in the old comics, became another super power of convenience like the flight rings (although loved that Blok needed two rings). It was used well enough in the new Supergirl tv show up until Reign kills a bunch of cast members and Kara turns back time (then saves them and defeats Reign). That was a shark jump in the first Superman movie, and an even worse one four decades later. The less said about the entire previous season of the show, the better(at least in this thread).
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 14, 2018 21:56:53 GMT -5
The LSH with Superboy (or Mon-El) has the same problem as the JLA with Superman (or Shazam!), which is too vast a power disparity between its members, spoiling dramatic tension. It's the same problem as the X-Men with Xavier or Phoenix around, or the New Mutants with Magik. When you have a bunch of heroes with individual limited powers and then one person who's a whole toolbox of strong powers, problems ensue. Well, I don't mind Mon-el being in there, and one of the great things about the Legion is that the cast is so huge, and their area of jurisdiction is so large, that you can easily ignore super-powerful members for stretches at a time, and credibly use the "their on missions elsewhere in the galaxy" excuse. However, I do agree with you main point, and definitely true with Superman, Phoenix, et. al. It's tough to make Green Arrow useful when Superman is right there. What's Ollie gonna do that Superman can't do much better and much faster, with no risk? Good thing somebody invented kryptonite, I suppose. I was a huge Superman Family fan as a kid, and Legion spun off from there.
It did always kind of bug me that not only Superman as a kid was a member, but so was his cousin ! and Mon-El too !
Much as I loved the Legion, I was really glad to see Superboy leave and the Legion could finally stand on there own.
To me, that's when the Legion really came into their own and were at their best. Just a few years later enter Levitz and Giffen and The Great Darkness Saga and the beginning of the best they had been up until that point, much like the X-Men had started to blaze that path of greatness a few years before.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 22:06:52 GMT -5
Well, I don't mind Mon-el being in there, and one of the great things about the Legion is that the cast is so huge, and their area of jurisdiction is so large, that you can easily ignore super-powerful members for stretches at a time, and credibly use the "their on missions elsewhere in the galaxy" excuse. However, I do agree with you main point, and definitely true with Superman, Phoenix, et. al. It's tough to make Green Arrow useful when Superman is right there. What's Ollie gonna do that Superman can't do much better and much faster, with no risk? Good thing somebody invented kryptonite, I suppose. I was a huge Superman Family fan as a kid, and Legion spun off from there. It did always kind of bug me that not only Superman as a kid was a member, but so was his cousin ! and Mon-El too ! Much as I loved the Legion, I was really glad to see Superboy leave and the Legion could finally stand on there own. To me, that's when the Legion really came into their own and were at their best. Just a few years later enter Levitz and Giffen and The Great Darkness Saga and the beginning of the best they had been up until that point, much like the X-Men had started to blaze that path of greatness a few years before.
I know your feelings when you wrote in bold ... Hondo, but without Superboy ... is like a day without Sunshine and Pancakes without Syrup ... and when I was thinking ... and I can see where you are coming from that when Superboy left -- they were forced to work things out and tackle the problems head on without the powers and abilities of Superboy. I felt that the Legion with Superboy and Supergirl was too much for me. Supergirl would be better than Superboy and therefore with Mon-El ... it would be cool and that's why many fans of the current Supergirl TV Show -- likes the storyline of both Mon-El and Supergirl. You've made your points well clear ...
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 14, 2018 23:24:36 GMT -5
I like the sounds of how Supergirl in Supergirl & The Legion thinks she's dreaming and may gradually wake up to it's not a dream, she really is in the future. I actually did like when she was in the '80s Legion comics, but for Superboy I used to think, nothing permanent was going to happen to him in the future... nonetheless there were some genuinely poignant stories, mainly to do with things that would be happening to him in our time that people in the future knew about but he hadn't experienced yet.
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Post by hasan459 on Aug 15, 2018 0:33:26 GMT -5
legion of super heroes my first comic book, when i remember my childhood i just see a colorful time like comic books
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 9:35:25 GMT -5
beccabear67 & hasan459 -- Thanks for your comments here and appreciate it very much ... I have been reading the LOSH from the DC Archives Editions and reliving the past glories of this wonderful group that I totally forgot and wants to explore it more in joy of youngsters working together for the common goals ...
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Post by rberman on Aug 15, 2018 15:13:54 GMT -5
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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 15, 2018 18:05:51 GMT -5
I like the sounds of how Supergirl in Supergirl & The Legion thinks she's dreaming and may gradually wake up to it's not a dream, she really is in the future. I actually did like when she was in the '80s Legion comics, but for Superboy I used to think, nothing permanent was going to happen to him in the future... nonetheless there were some genuinely poignant stories, mainly to do with things that would be happening to him in our time that people in the future knew about but he hadn't experienced yet. One of the few times I read two consecutive issues was 258 and 259, as the title changed. Superboy's 'discovery' of what he wasn't meant to know was very poignant, and the way Saturn Girl solved the problem for him, was interesting. I hadn't realized that, in previous issues, the Legion had a much more 'complicated' process of 'brainwashing' Superboy...without letting on they were brainwashing him! Guessing the 'hypnosis' that sent him back to Smallville wore off, and Superboy could then have taken part in the LSH's adventures any time...limited only by DC editorial say-so.
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Post by String on Aug 16, 2018 12:26:03 GMT -5
Speaking of Shooter, Brian Cronin over at CBR recently had an article dealing with the Adult Legion story that Shooter wrote, specifically the memorial seen on display.
He was discussing how DC felt obligated to try and introduce those future events and future new characters as seen in that memorial in later issues even after Shooter left. I think Cronin was implying that with all the earlier Legion stories focused on twists, gags, and last-minute saves (not to mention the Silver Age love of Imaginary stories), why did they feel beholden to live up to this future story about a future team written by a 15 year old?
This leads me to another question. One of those dead Legionnaires seen in that memorial, Reflecto, was introduced in Legion of Superheroes #277 by Conway and Thomas. Art by Jimmy Janes. Who is Jimmy Janes? I've never heard of him till now.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 16, 2018 12:35:17 GMT -5
Speaking of Shooter, Brian Cronin over at CBR recently had an article dealing with the Adult Legion story that Shooter wrote, specifically the memorial seen on display. He was discussing how DC felt obligated to try and introduce those future events and future new characters as seen in that memorial in later issues even after Shooter left. I think Cronin was implying that with all the earlier Legion stories focused on twists, gags, and last-minute saves (not to mention the Silver Age love of Imaginary stories), why did they feel beholden to live up to this future story about a future team written by a 15 year old? This leads me to another question. One of those dead Legionnaires seen in that memorial, Reflecto, was introduced in Legion of Superheroes #277 by Conway and Thomas. Art by Jimmy Janes. Who is Jimmy Janes? I've never heard of him till now. I don't really know who Jimmy Janes is, but he drew about a dozen issues of the Legion.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 16, 2018 13:08:43 GMT -5
Jimmy, or Jim, Janes was an artist who was mainly active in the 1970s and early 1980s. Here's the entry on him at the Lambiek Comiclopedia. As dbutler notes, he worked on the Legion for a while, which is the only place I've seen his art. All I can say about his work is that it was pretty solid, but unremarkable. I was reading Legion regularly at that point, and I remember the Reflecto story; it was pretty confusing. Reflecto ended up being Superboy, but with the consciousness and personality of an amnesiac Ultra Boy (who everyone thought was dead at the time). Later, when the story finally concluded and everything was worked out, they put up a statue of Reflecto among the dead Legionnaires, replacing the one of no-longer dead Ultra Boy.
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