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Post by Farrar on Aug 16, 2018 13:34:27 GMT -5
According to Shooter (in interviews that are collected in the book The Legion Companion and elsewhere), it was E. Nelson Bridwell who instructed Shooter regarding who would end up married to whom in #354's Adult Legion story (including Garth and Imra, who had already been established as an adult married couple in a much earlier Superman/Supergirl story). Shooter has said that the very continuity-conscious Bridwell was a big fan of the pairings that had been established during the LSH's Hamilton era.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 16, 2018 15:15:57 GMT -5
According to Shooter (in interviews that are collected in the book The Legion Companion and elsewhere), it was E. Nelson Bridwell who instructed Shooter regarding who would end up married to whom in #354's Adult Legion story (including Garth and Imra, who had already been established as an adult married couple in a much earlier Superman/Supergirl story). Shooter has said that the very continuity-conscious Bridwell was a big fan of the pairings that had been established during the LSH's Hamilton era. I really liked the couples/pairings as they were all interesting in their own ways.The royal Princess Projectra with the street of hard knocks Karate Kid. Social outcast Timberwolf with kind/caring/devoted Light(ning) Lass, the gregarious Ultra Boy with the demure Phantom Girl, goofy unsure of self worth Bouncing Boy with outgoing Triplicate then Duo Damsel. Emotionally charged Energy without body Wildfire and soulful Dawnstar. Stoic dependable Blok with studious White Witch. Mon-El and Shadow Lass never really seemed all that memorable to me. Always felt to me like Cosmic Boy/Night Girl was rather weak relationship as I think Cosmic Boy/Saturn Girl would have been a better match though her connecting with Lightning Lad does reflect many teen romances where the best friend is odd man out and the more outgoing/impulsive/dangerous guy gets the gal instead of the quieter/serious/intellectual guy.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 16, 2018 15:35:55 GMT -5
Jimmy, or Jim, Janes was an artist who was mainly active in the 1970s and early 1980s. Here's the entry on him at the Lambiek Comiclopedia. As dbutler notes, he worked on the Legion for a while, which is the only place I've seen his art. All I can say about his work is that it was pretty solid, but unremarkable. I was reading Legion regularly at that point, and I remember the Reflecto story; it was pretty confusing. Reflecto ended up being Superboy, but with the consciousness and personality of an amnesiac Ultra Boy (who everyone thought was dead at the time). Later, when the story finally concluded and everything was worked out, they put up a statue of Reflecto among the dead Legionnaires, replacing the one of no-longer dead Ultra Boy. Even though it was written by both Gerry Conway and Roy Thomas?
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 16, 2018 21:37:49 GMT -5
Another couple I remember was Star Boy and Dream Girl. A match made in the stars or clouds? I feel lucky to be able remember the adult Legion story. I'm sure it was a great idea for one issue, but to have had to live by that one story evermore... that ought to have put people off from showing futures without a lot of caveats and possible outs!
Could there ever be too many Legionnaires? For me I wanted to know that there were a hundred... kind of like Pokemon (pocket monsters) was much later, 'collect' them all! They tried it with Lilo & Stitch too where there were all the other number experiments out there somewhere. You can't tell me having a lot of super characters is bad when it seemed the more there might be the more I wanted to find out about. I think you could easily have too many for a good story though, so X-Men and Avengers need to have around five or six maximum active in a team per story with others in sub-plot appearances or doing something else somewhere to be told at another time or place.
Jim Shooter could be really sharp and dynamic at times, but sometimes he seemed to overreach beyond either his or an artists' ability (like not having a regular one or wearing one out with late changes). That whole Korvac things could've been good, it had some moments, but only without the tennis outfits Korvac and girlfriend seemed determined to wear, and with a regular artist throughout, and with a much more fulfilling (full) end in mind. Secret Wars with The Beyonder was just a repeat except maybe Zeck tried his very best whereas Perez had said something about never working with Shooter again. Obviously Valiant comics sold very well for a reason, he could tell a good story, but sometimes it seemed to me he didn't really pay off in his endings however partial like others could. Maybe he thought making permanent additions or changes, making his mark, was doing that, but that's the making history fan thing, not the wrapping up a great trip with a satisfying conclusion and setting up the springboard for the next trip. If it were easy everyone would've been doing it however.
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2018 15:24:42 GMT -5
...Always felt to me like Cosmic Boy/Night Girl was rather weak relationship as I think Cosmic Boy/Saturn Girl would have been a better match though her connecting with Lightning Lad does reflect many teen romances where the best friend is odd man out and the more outgoing/impulsive/dangerous guy gets the gal instead of the quieter/serious/intellectual guy. I know what you mean. I started reading the LSH on a fairly regular basis with Adventure #357 ("Ghost of Ferro Lad") and like many other kids, I concocted my own little Legion stories (meaning I wrote/drew on looseleaf paper). In my LSH universe, I envisioned the following couples: Shrinking Violet and Colossal Boy (because of their opposite powers); Phantom Girl and Invisible Kid (similar powers, drawn the same way with broken lines); and Light Lass and Cosmic Boy, because of Cos's connection to Lightning Lad as a founding member. So I was always glad when I came upon what I considered hints/verification of my pairings, such as here: Adventure #347 Adventure #363 and of course one of my all-time fave DC covers, Adventure #350 (for L.Lass/Cos; and Vi/Colossal Boy): And also like a lot of other Legion fans I started to send letters to Adventure Comics (and they were published--yay!). Back then when you wrote a letter to Adventure they sent you back a Legion fact sheet detailing their real names and planets of origin; IIRC it was a couple of pages long and on green paper. Well this fact sheet also included the then-official Legion couples. I remember being surprised--and annoyed--that Phantom Girl was with Ultra Boy; and Shrinking Violet was with Duplicate Boy (who? I hadn't known about him at the time); Cosmic Boy was with a character named Night Girl (I didn't know the Subs at all); and Light Lass was with someone named Timber Wolf (another character I hadn't heard of at the time). Darn it, I liked my couples better . Anyway I stopped reading the Legion shortly after their misbegotten move to the back of Action Comics and didn't read any Legion stories until a few years ago, when I picked up a few LSH Archive volumes to see what I had missed in the intervening decades. I did feel sort of vindicated when I found out that later on there was indeed interaction between Col. Boy and Vi; and that Phantom Girl and I. Kid (Lyle Norg) discussed their "connection" and similar powers in the story in which he dies.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 17, 2018 15:56:46 GMT -5
Farrar, I know just what you mean about the allure of pairing up Legion couples, but unlike you and brutalis, I liked the Cosmic Boy-Night Girl relationship. I had become a Legion-reader earlier on, with Adventure 312, so that I knew about and liked the Subs. And that's what I liked about the CB-NG romance... He was the BMOC, she was part of the Nerds Club. Yet Cosmic Boy was crazy about her and never thought for a moment that Night Girl was in any way not his equal or somehow unworthy to be his girlfriend. BTW, just noticed Lemonade Lad in the right background of Adventure 350. Colossal Boy brought out his Easter uniform, I guess!
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Post by Farrar on Aug 17, 2018 16:39:05 GMT -5
BTW, just noticed Lemonade Lad in the right background of Adventure 350. Colossal Boy brought out his Easter uniform, I guess! LOL! Yeah, that miscoloring has always bugged me. But I still love that cover with everyone having fun except for those Supercrybabies! Farrar , I know just what you mean about the allure of pairing up Legion couples, but unlike you and brutalis , I liked the Cosmic Boy-Night Girl relationship. I had become a Legion-reader earlier on, with Adventure 312, so that I knew about and liked the Subs. And that's what I liked about the CB-NG romance... He was the BMOC, she was part of the Nerds Club. Yet Cosmic Boy was crazy about her and never thought for a moment that Night Girl was in any way not his equal or somehow unworthy to be his girlfriend. As I amassed more and more Adventure back issues, I grew to really like Night Girl and so I ultimately "approved" of her romance with Cos. And I loved the fact that she was the physically strongest of the Subs. The thing is, during the 1960s Adventure run she had a crush on him, but he never seemed to notice her or really interact with her (except for a fake Cos impostor in #311)...and then bang, zoom, in Adventure #354, the Adult Legion story, Bridwell/Shooter has them married. Their first real on-panel teenage romantic interaction seems to have been in Action #386 (cover dated Mar. 1970); they are shown as a couple along with other couples Lightning Lad & Saturn Girl and Ultra Boy & Phantom Girl. I think that was one of the last LSH stories I actually read at the time of its publication.
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Post by String on Aug 18, 2018 12:09:10 GMT -5
According to Shooter (in interviews that are collected in the book The Legion Companion and elsewhere), it was E. Nelson Bridwell who instructed Shooter regarding who would end up married to whom in #354's Adult Legion story (including Garth and Imra, who had already been established as an adult married couple in a much earlier Superman/Supergirl story). Shooter has said that the very continuity-conscious Bridwell was a big fan of the pairings that had been established during the LSH's Hamilton era. I really liked the couples/pairings as they were all interesting in their own ways.The royal Princess Projectra with the street of hard knocks Karate Kid. Social outcast Timberwolf with kind/caring/devoted Light(ning) Lass, the gregarious Ultra Boy with the demure Phantom Girl, goofy unsure of self worth Bouncing Boy with outgoing Triplicate then Duo Damsel. Emotionally charged Energy without body Wildfire and soulful Dawnstar. Stoic dependable Blok with studious White Witch. Mon-El and Shadow Lass never really seemed all that memorable to me. Always felt to me like Cosmic Boy/Night Girl was rather weak relationship as I think Cosmic Boy/Saturn Girl would have been a better match though her connecting with Lightning Lad does reflect many teen romances where the best friend is odd man out and the more outgoing/impulsive/dangerous guy gets the gal instead of the quieter/serious/intellectual guy. When I was reading during the Levitz/Giffen 80s run, I really liked Wildfire and Dawnstar's relationship. Mon-El's relationship with Shadow Lass never quite clicked for me. One would think that being a ghost for 1000 years in the Phantom Zone, Lar would want to have as much physical contact and love that he could get once he was freed ie multiple flings or relationships. That's one problem I had with the numerous reboots and relaunches over the years. It presented DC with a chance to shake up these relationships and instead posit different pairings to generate more drama and different kinds of tension. However, what usually occurred was that these traditional pairings would seep into the books sooner or later, for better or worse.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 18, 2018 14:22:42 GMT -5
BTW, just noticed Lemonade Lad in the right background of Adventure 350. Colossal Boy brought out his Easter uniform, I guess! LOL! Yeah, that miscoloring has always bugged me. But I still love that cover with everyone having fun except for those Supercrybabies! Farrar , I know just what you mean about the allure of pairing up Legion couples, but unlike you and brutalis , I liked the Cosmic Boy-Night Girl relationship. I had become a Legion-reader earlier on, with Adventure 312, so that I knew about and liked the Subs. And that's what I liked about the CB-NG romance... He was the BMOC, she was part of the Nerds Club. Yet Cosmic Boy was crazy about her and never thought for a moment that Night Girl was in any way not his equal or somehow unworthy to be his girlfriend. As I amassed more and more Adventure back issues, I grew to really like Night Girl and so I ultimately "approved" of her romance with Cos. And I loved the fact that she was the physically strongest of the Subs. The thing is, during the 1960s Adventure run she had a crush on him, but he never seemed to notice her or really interact with her (except for a fake Cos impostor in #311)...and then bang, zoom, in Adventure #354, the Adult Legion story, Bridwell/Shooter has them married. Their first real on-panel teenage romantic interaction seems to have been in Action #386 (cover dated Mar. 1970); they are shown as a couple along with other couples Lightning Lad & Saturn Girl and Ultra Boy & Phantom Girl. I think that was one of the last LSH stories I actually read at the time of its publication. Your at-your-fingertips command of Legion lore leaves me in the dust, my friend. I guess I was conflating the Silver and Bronze Age stories in my recollection. (I do that a lot!) Still, I did like the CB-NG romance. I followed the Legion only now and then through the frustrating back-up run in Action myself. I found it hard to believe that they were relegated to the back-up status. I started to read them again when they moved to Superboy after the book was renamed with them as equal partners. I wonder what prompted DC to go that route. Couldn't have been that the LSH had done much to improve sales in Action; they were dumped pretty quickly. I wonder if it was a Green Lantern/ Green Arrow thing; maybe Superboy sales couldn't get any worse, and with LSH fan Dave Cockrum so gung ho to revamp the Legion visually, they must have figured it might be worth a go.
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 18, 2018 21:32:53 GMT -5
Have they collected up those Dave Cockrum Superboy & the Legion stories yet? That would make a must-have volume! I had a bunch of the issues once but not all; there were a few he did before Legion was made part of the title too.
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Post by String on Aug 19, 2018 13:06:48 GMT -5
Have they collected up those Dave Cockrum Superboy & the Legion stories yet? That would make a must-have volume! I had a bunch of the issues once but not all; there were a few he did before Legion was made part of the title too. I know that they've recently released collections of Mike Grell's run. Cockrum, I'm not sure. Nothing new or recent that I recall. If they have, maybe within their Archive series?
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Post by Farrar on Aug 19, 2018 17:51:38 GMT -5
Your at-your-fingertips command of Legion lore leaves me in the dust, my friend. I guess I was conflating the Silver and Bronze Age stories in my recollection. (I do that a lot!) Thanks, Hal. It's second nature for me to recall such specifics because I only read comics for 5 years (yep, I am that mythical creature Weisinger and others targeted back then: the 5 year fan ). I started reading DC, a year later started Marvel, and then like clockwork--5 years later, stopped DC, a year after that, stopped Marvel. It wasn't anything I planned, my comics reading/buying just. petered. out. So my frame of reference is much smaller than yours, as I stopped reading comics at around the time of what I guess is today generally considered the early days of the Bronze Age. Also I didn't read as many series as you and others have (based on what I've seen posted in threads such as 50 Years Ago, 40 Years Ago, 30 Years Ago, etc.). I only followed the Legion in Adventure, the FF and Avengers, was able to find them on the stands and also bought a lot of back issues of these series (thanks to a fantastic little collectibles store right on my block). Due to mainly to spotty distribution, keeping up with other series (JLA, Titans, Wonder Woman, Sub-Mariner) was really hit or miss for me...but I'm pretty familiar with the 1960s LSH, FF and Avengers. I started to read them again when they moved to Superboy after the book was renamed with them as equal partners. I wonder what prompted DC to go that route. Couldn't have been that the LSH had done much to improve sales in Action; they were dumped pretty quickly. I wonder if it was a Green Lantern/ Green Arrowthing; maybe Superboysales couldn't get any worse, and with LSH fan Dave Cockrum so gung ho to revamp the Legion visually, they must have figured it might be worth a go. I think at least part of it was due to a group of really rabid LSH readers who continually petitioned DC to get the LSH back in a regular series (this was just after I'd stopped reading comics, or I likely would have become involved!). Anyway, they were active letter-writers, published their own Legion newsletter, organized Legion-related publicity campaigns and most importantly kept in touch with DC. Strangely enough some months ago, at a totally non-comics related event, I met someone who had been part of this group. I knew his name from the TwoMorrows book The Best of the Legion Outpost (I've bought a lot of TwoMorrows books in the past few years). It's a small world after all!
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 19, 2018 18:06:14 GMT -5
I can't wait for the Legion to come back. One of the things that hamstrings them is the whole 1,000 years in the future thing. Maybe if they could show how the future was constantly in flux because of the constantly changing repercussions of what have happened previously because of tears in the time/space continuum from the Great Apocalypse and Electric Warrior eras, it could directly embrace and build upon what's been happening recently in the present DCU.
BTW beccabear67 that Legion image was from the DC fanzine Amazing World of DC Comics. It was the first image I'd ever seen of the Legion and I thought it was so cool. That issue run about $ 100 when you can find it.
Why couldn't DC reprint those ? I have a half dozen issues or so but would love to have a complete set.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 18:47:25 GMT -5
It's been awhile since I have read a LSH comic. Couple of questions. I guess Superboy's memories were removed every time he returned to the past by someone in the Legion? Or was it just select memories that would affect him as Superman such as Supergirl's existence? Was Mon-El permanently cured from lead poisoning or did he have to take something everyday to prevent the lead poisoning from returning?
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 19, 2018 23:39:22 GMT -5
I see they reprinted the Dave Cockrum Superboy & Legion stories in the hardcover Archives series in Vol. 10 & 11. It'd be almost $100 u.s. for the two at the lowest prices I can find... you could buy the original issues I think in FN+ for that I would think. Too bad they don't have a less 'prestigious' format. I paid as much (well, $50 can.) for a huge hardcover collection of Miss Fury '40s color Sundays (and got an autograph yet).
Interesting about the Amazing World... I too wish they'd reprint those (and Foom! while we're wishing) but what if those are in $45 hardcovers?
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