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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 15, 2016 13:58:00 GMT -5
Yep. Folks still find a 60+ year old George Clooney desirable, but as soon as Scarlet Johansson turns 40, she's going to fall off the face of the Earth unless she can pull a Meryl Streep. Clooney's only 54, but your point still stands. Women like Streep and Helen Mirren should be the rule rather than the exception. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 15, 2016 13:59:28 GMT -5
Yep. Folks still find a 60+ year old George Clooney desirable, but as soon as Scarlet Johansson turns 40, she's going to fall off the face of the Earth unless she can pull a Meryl Streep. Clooney's only 54, but your point still stands. Women like Streep and Helen Mirren should be the rule rather than the exception. R-R-R-R-ROWFF! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 14:09:49 GMT -5
Sometimes the teacher you don't want is the one you really need. You don't need to like someone to be able to learn from them. So he was not the teacher Cei-U! deserved, but he was the teacher Cei-U! needed? Only Cei-U! can determine that. But Neal Adams taught him something with that experience. His words of wisdom either taught Cei-U! how to be a "better" artist, or his words of wisdom were only for his own ego, and he only taught Cei-U that he's a complete jerk. The only thing we know for sure is that Cei-U learned SOMETHING from the experience. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 15, 2016 14:34:21 GMT -5
So he was not the teacher Cei-U! deserved, but he was the teacher Cei-U! needed? Only Cei-U! can determine that. But Neal Adams taught him something with that experience. His words of wisdom either taught Cei-U! how to be a "better" artist, or his words of wisdom were only for his own ego, and he only taught Cei-U that he's a complete jerk. The only thing we know for sure is that Cei-U learned SOMETHING from the experience. Or it's both. And I did, after all, get motivated to master perspective, something you'd think I'd have learned after four years of studying art at a major university but somehow... Cei-U! I summon the lesson learned! |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 15, 2016 14:35:19 GMT -5
Clooney is only 54!  I've heard/read a few times that Neal Adams was brutal to George Perez when he first saw his sample pages. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 14:59:00 GMT -5
Only Cei-U! can determine that. But Neal Adams taught him something with that experience. His words of wisdom either taught Cei-U! how to be a "better" artist, or his words of wisdom were only for his own ego, and he only taught Cei-U that he's a complete jerk. The only thing we know for sure is that Cei-U learned SOMETHING from the experience. Or it's both. And I did, after all, get motivated to master perspective, something you'd think I'd have learned after four years of studying art at a major university but somehow... Cei-U! I summon the lesson learned! Good! Then you learned from it. And something good came from it. But, still. Neal Adams didn't have to be such a jerk about it, right? He could have been a bit softer. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 15, 2016 15:09:46 GMT -5
So he was not the teacher Cei-U! deserved, but he was the teacher Cei-U! needed? Only Cei-U! can determine that. But Neal Adams taught him something with that experience. His words of wisdom either taught Cei-U! how to be a "better" artist, or his words of wisdom were only for his own ego, and he only taught Cei-U that he's a complete jerk. The only thing we know for sure is that Cei-U learned SOMETHING from the experience. I was going for a Dark Knight thing, but yeah  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 15:29:48 GMT -5
Only Cei-U! can determine that. But Neal Adams taught him something with that experience. His words of wisdom either taught Cei-U! how to be a "better" artist, or his words of wisdom were only for his own ego, and he only taught Cei-U that he's a complete jerk. The only thing we know for sure is that Cei-U learned SOMETHING from the experience. I was going for a Dark Knight thing, but yeah Oh! Sorry! That went right over me. I have not read Dark Knight.  |
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 15, 2016 16:00:49 GMT -5
This anecdote via Steve Rude made the rounds a few years back regarding Alex Toth's blunt critique of one of his pieces.
illdave.com/comicbooks/history/toth-critiques-rude.htm
I also recall hearing that Neal Adams had taken to mentoring Frank Miller early in his career and was giving up hope on the guy. Adams had taken another look at Miller's work, still thought that no one would ever hire him if he didn't improve, and expressed this opinion to the artist. Miller sheepishly responded, "uh... actually Marvel's already hired me" to which Adams told him "then keep doing what you're doing".
Though Cei-U does cite his rude treatment at the hands of Adams as the reason he worked so hard to better his style, I have to second Coldwater's thoughts and ask what would have happened had Adams voiced the same opinion in a non-insulting manner? I mean, it is Neal Adams - wouldn't that be enough to get the message across? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 15, 2016 16:38:37 GMT -5
I was going for a Dark Knight thing, but yeah Oh! Sorry! That went right over me. I have not read Dark Knight. The movie. And no worries |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 15, 2016 16:45:28 GMT -5
Oh! Sorry! That went right over me. I have not read Dark Knight. The movie. And no worries  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 17:04:44 GMT -5
The movie. And no worries Boys will be boys will be boys will be... |
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Post by Spike-X on Jan 15, 2016 20:30:40 GMT -5
This was something he said to you? I did watch an interview with him recently where he said that if an artist stops learning, stops growing, or thinks he already mastered art, then he's stunted and that basically he is stupid. He said you never stop learning. And you never stop trying to be better. If this is how he really feels, then his last comment to you proves he's the teacher no one ever really wants. Sometimes the teacher you don't want is the one you really need. You don't need to like someone to be able to learn from them. What if I told you that it's entirely possible to suggest ways in which a student needs to improve without being a complete arsehole about it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 23:31:48 GMT -5
Sometimes the teacher you don't want is the one you really need. You don't need to like someone to be able to learn from them. What if I told you that it's entirely possible to suggest ways in which a student needs to improve without being a complete arsehole about it? I'd say you didn't grow up going to parochial school -M rubs phantom pain in knuckles as instinctual memories bring back old habits |
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 15, 2016 23:38:17 GMT -5
See - this is weird to me because when he explains his approach to writing/drawing it's from a perspective of "I'm writing/drawing so and so the way fans know he should be". I suppose this could just be commercial savvy on his part
I'm inclined to believe it's that. Heck, he finally achieved the first generation comic artist dream of leaving the comic business for a gig in commercial art and only came back because he realized that the money's in comics now. Granted, my experience with Neal was limited to a single day working for him at his booth, but the impression I got is that he makes no effort to conceal the fact that he's in it for the money. He knows he did something people respect and he feels it's appropriate to cash in on that. There's no shame and no intent to hide it; he's there to make money that he deserves. And he'll sketch as little as possible and sell the maximum number of prints in order to do so. I remember you saying as much back when you were recounting your day working from him. Based on his own statements that I've seen online, or were attributed to him, it seems to corroborate your take on him. During my brief interactions with him when I met him at Baltimore Comic Con last year, I found him to be pleasant and friendly to talk to, so in that sense I have no complaints about meeting him. But he definitely is aware of his place in the industry and intends to cash in on it. As far is his statements on drawing things the way he knows the fans like, I think it is partly commercial savvy, but I think it's also partly being self-aware (or if you want to say it more critically, ego). He's very aware that he's considered a legendary artist, and knows that he can sell books on his name and track record. So saying he draws things the way the fans like it is basically saying that his art sells books, so the fans must like it. |
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