Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,924
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 3, 2016 0:58:03 GMT -5
I'm also slowly putting together a 'Nam run. I've got #1-22 so far. Great series, very underrated. Especially considering how incredibly hot it was when it first came out. How quickly they forget.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 1:08:35 GMT -5
I picked up about 2/3 of the 'Nam run at a con 2 years ago for 25 cents each, but haven't gotten around to filling in the rest yet. Part of me would rather get the magazine sized reprints of the series to see that gorgeous art in the larger format (even if as I recall, they are in b&w in the mags-I think). I have the old trade collecting 1-4 as well that Marvel, but have 3 of the 4 issues in floppy form as well.
edit to add: I have, however, put together the run of Semper Fi from around the same time with art by John Severin largely because of our pal Dan B. in the Underworld talking up the series during the 12 Days of Christmas that featured short run series. It's in my read pile for this year too. -M
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 3, 2016 16:56:28 GMT -5
Have you read 'em both recently? I freakin' love the Lee/Romita stuff, and Romita has this advertising slickness (and pretty girls!) but Ditko is just at an entirely different level as an artist in terms of storytelling, mood, use of symbolism, comedy, and grounding his work in tangible reality. And spotting blacks. NOBODY EVER is better at spotting blacks. (To paraphrase Jim Shooter "I never could tell what Romita's web lines were attached to!") The Romita stuff is very well done and it's a "popier" more easily digestible product, and the Romita run became the model that everyone else followed. But Ditko's almost unanimously considered one of the top twenty mainstream American comics artists and there's a reason for that! Errr...semi-recently, yes. Definitely within the last 4 or 5 years. I do, however, know the first 60 or so issues of ASM pretty well, since I grew up reading them as a kid in the Marvel Tales reprints, back in the early-to-mid '80s. First let me just say that I love Ditko and Romita's art a lot, but the latter is my favourite of the two. The "advertising slickness" you mention works really well in conjunction with the increased soap opera elements that came into the book when Romita took over. There's a fluidity, a confidence and a freedom (for want of a better word) to Romita's art that fits in perfectly with Peter Parker's maturing character. It reflects his change from an anxious, ugly duckling of the earlier comics into a more confident, more handsome young man. Of course, I realise that these character changes were, in part, driven by the switch to Romita as Spidey's regular artist and that Stan Lee was very much playing to Romita's romance comic-honed strengths. But then again, plenty of awkward, geeky kids turn into more assured young adults in the years between 15 and, say, 17 -- hell, it happened to me! The way that Peter changes over those first 60 or so issues is one of the best things about Silver Age ASM in my view. There's a joy to be found in reading along with this hero as he begins to transition into an adult, becoming more sure of himself and starting to fit in a little more with his social circle. Romita's art is a large part of what makes that transition work, even at the same time as it was his art that was necessitating these changes behind the scenes. Ditko's art on the other hand is fevered, claustrophobic and paranoid. And it's precisely those qualities that make the early issues of ASM work so well. They reflect Peter's wounded and distrusting personality. The art also works well with the more street-level villains that he had to face (outer space aliens hiding in the back of a TV repair shop, not withstanding, natch!). There's a detectable noir element in those early issues of ASM and that's almost entirely due to Ditko's wonderfully moody and nervous art. There's also all those ungainly and creepy poses that Spidey strikes under Ditko's pencil too, which I love. However, I stand by my initial statement that, of the two artists, the dynamic pace, increased emotional palette and "freedom" of the Romita era is, to me at least, slightly superior to Ditko's uneasy and paranoid take on the character. By the way, excuse my ignorance, but what does "spotting blacks" mean? That's an artistic phrase that I've never come across before. Using black ink, basically. It's generally (I believe) more of an inker thing. And it might be easier to use a BUNCH of black for artists who are inking themselves... I get the sense that overuse of black might be seen as the inker obscuring the pencillers work. (I'm certainly not an artist, though!) I generally agree with everything you said - I don't think Ditko would have done as well during the Romita Archie Rom-Com thing anywhere near as well as Romita, and I don't think Ditko's take is inherently better. And, certainly, Romita is the guy I would want touching up and slickifiying other people's work, which is why he was art director for years. Still, I think Ditko is quite a bit stronger in the fundamentals of comic storytelling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 17:05:23 GMT -5
I've seen pencillers who indicate spotting blacks simply by putting an x is a large white space to tell the inker it should be black without doing all the pencil shading. I think I first saw it in one of those rough cut editions Marvel released of the Heroes Return #1s. Is more common for background blacks, like a scene set in space or what not.
-M
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 3, 2016 19:52:06 GMT -5
Marvel Masterworks reviews - Thor Vol. 4 , collects Journey Into Thor 121-130: - Tales of Asgard is kind of nonsensical at this point. Thor and Volstagg and Balder are sent on a quest, find some trolls, Odin knocks out the trolls FROM HOME with a wave of his hand, and then calls them back and tells them a story. But it LOOKS great! But the main arc, with Hercules being tricked into replacing Pluto as boss of hell and then Thor coming to save him and pretty much tearing Hell down around Pluto's ears is my favorite Thor story ever. Rating: **** (outta 4) Daredevil Vol. 8 Collects Daredevil 75-84, Black Widow stories from Amazing Adventures: A bunch of stuff I've never read before here. The Black Widow stories are a Denny 'O Neil-ish "relevant" story about street gangs and the Astrologer, who's gimmick I forget already but looks like a Dick Ayers Human Torch villain! Hooray! The Daredevil stuff is Colan and Conway, and it's really intricately plotted - Conway's constantly referencing his work on Sub-Mariner and Iron Man with the main villain (I believe?) popping up in all three titles at once. I'm not sure if it holds together but it looks great! Colan is at the top of his game here. Rating: *** Golden Age Human Torch Vol. 1 Collects Human Torch vol.1 2-5a. Early 1940s goodness from Burgos and Everett (mostly.) BY FAR the worst looking volume in the series that I own. The art in the Masterworks is generally quite crisp and clear, (maybe a little TOO much for my taste) but this volume is often muddy looking and indistinct. Sad, because while Bill Everett's Sub-Mariner back ups are below average, this is my favorite bunch of Golden Age Torch stories ever! These are 40 page stories and you can tell that Burgos and company are enjoying the extra room after being shoved into Marvel Comics with 4 or 5 other features. Toro is introduced, Toro's parents come back but turn out to be crooks in disquise, fights thinly veiled caricactures of Hitler and Goering, and has a glorious, long-running battle with the super genius Doc Smart. Some interesting world building, too. The Sub-Mariner and Torch stories cross over in one issue, the Golden Age Angel guest stars in the Sub-Mariner feature in another, and one of the text pages is the Human Torch and the Sub-Mariner arguing whether Burgos or Everett is the better artist! And there are some fairly forgetable back-up characters, but I kind of liked Joe Simon's Fiery Mask and the shrinking MicroMan (actually a boy about 8 years old.) Still, at least 2/3rds great stuff. Wish it looked better. Rating: ** Incredible Hulk Vol. 8 Reprints Hulk 145-156. John Severin's inking over Trimpe's pencils means that this is a great looking book, but I read it a week ago and I'm having trouble remembering the contents. The army, Ant-Man guest stars, "HULK LOVE JARELLA" ad-infinitum, a giant gloop monster, Doc Sampson is supposed to die but doesn't die.. the Shaper of Worlds.... I dunno, the Hulk with his lack of agency just isn't a super interesting protagonist at this point, and the writer roulette doesn't help matters. ** Fantastic Four vol. 2 Reprints Fantastic Four # 11-20 and Annual # 1: A couple stone classics here - The FF! And the Red Ghost! And his Super Apes! And the Watcher! On the Moon! With an unwieldly, forced allegory for Communism! HOORAY! But a lot of... well, getting comfortable with the characters, I guess. Villains from the first year of the series show up again, some new (not great) villains are introduced, a Hulk fight that doesn't get going 'till the issue is 3/4ths done, and a lot of this feels like going through the motions. The first FF annual is an amazing package, though, chock full of cool extras. The series would improve a lot, and quickly! but this is just **. Next up on the too-read pile: Fantastic Four vol. 11 Inhumans Vol. 1
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 6, 2016 21:23:48 GMT -5
Putting a dent in my reading also.
G.I Combat #104- Great cover, solid Haunted Tank story.
'Tec #608- Anarky. Somewhat intriguing character but reminds me visually too much of V, who I much prefer.
Batman #224- The oldest Batman I own. Solid Adams cover, decent story. Anything much older than this is too corny for me.
Son of Satan #8- Very bizarre read and my first foray into this series. Heath did the interior art (and it has a nice Gil Kane cover). But the monsters and imagery inside is fantastic. A bit strange and cheesy looking initially but it evolves throughout the story into very macabre looking stuff. Love it!
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 6, 2016 21:35:08 GMT -5
Mostly been power reading through Cap's run in Tales Of Suspense and his own title, I'm up to #134 so far. Don't really have much to comment on, all of it's been fairly solid and enjoyable, though Cap's constant yearnings for Sharon have started becoming a bit grating to the point where he almost seems totally out of character
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Post by Spike-X on Jan 7, 2016 7:13:16 GMT -5
Doom Patrol 104 Rita want to do stuff. All the boys are busy doing other stuff. Mento abducts Rita to show off his new mental amplification gizmo. Robotman and don't-be-so-Negativeman come to rescue her. Rita gets mad at them for rescuing her because chicks, amirite? Mento wants to kiss Rita. Rita does not want his kissing and remonstrates with him in a manner most physical. Rita returns to Doom Patrol HQ, but she's not talking to Cliff and Larry, even after they rescue some trapped miners. Mento asks Rita to marry him, and she says let me think about it and then he kisses her and she's cool with it this time. Cliff and Larry upset Rita some more so she decides she will marry Mento out of spite or something I guess I dunno. Cliff and Larry decide to sabotage the wedding with a fake telegram but change their minds at the last minute but too late! Rita decides she doesn't want to marry stinky old Mento (who is wearing his Mento helmet during the wedding ceremony for reasons that are never explained) after all because Cliff and Larry showed her how much they really care when they tried to trick her into changing her mind. Don't ask me, I don't make this shit up. Now everybody's happy except Mento and also Rita because she really loved him and now she's lost him. cliff and Larry decide they're mad at Mento now because the wedding didn't happen, even though it was Rita who changed her mind and it was all their fault to begin with anyway. Mento gets a new costume to go with his more powerful new helmet and goes to DP HQ to call out Cliff and Larry. They fight. Rita gets mad at Mento and gets involved but Mento's mental rays blind her somehow. Cliff decides to go to Mento's mansion and trash the joint in retaliation. Mento gets home and is most upset by this as you can imagine. We cut to the Brotherhood of Evil's base on the dark side of the moon and find out it wasn't Mento fighting cliff and Larry after all, but Madame Rouge disguised as ol' Stevie! Wotta twist! The Chief cures Rita's blindness (for some reason she had to be naked for this procedure, apart from a sheet wrapped around her shapely form). The Chief realizes The Brotherhood Of Evil are behind the attack on them and tries to tell Cliff and Larry but they're out for blood - Mento's blood! they fight again. Rita arrives on the scene, embiggens herself, and squishes Mento's shiny new helmet before dumping him in the river. But then, once returned to normal size, she finds herself trapped in...A PLASTIC BAG! Robotman (minus a leg) tells her that their fight with Mento was a ploy to fool the Brotherhood of Evil but she ruined it cuz chicks are dumb. The Brotherhood turn up and now it's on, biatches! The Chief joins the fray in his Battlechair™, while Cliff is limping around on a tree limb that he's used to replace his missing leg. No, really, I'm serious. The DP chase off the Brotherhood and Rita and Steve kiss and make up and decide to get married for realsies this time. They get married (Mento still in that goofy freakin' helmet what's up with that) in the sight of God and the Justice League and Beast Boy and the Teen Titans (who look more like the Preteen Titans here). The End. It probably took me longer to write all that out than it did for Arnold Drake to come up with the plot, but there you have it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 7:21:33 GMT -5
Mostly been power reading through Cap's run in Tales Of Suspense and his own title, I'm up to #134 so far. Don't really have much to comment on, all of it's been fairly solid and enjoyable, though Cap's constant yearnings for Sharon have started becoming a bit grating to the point where he almost seems totally out of character Is it as bad as his guilt over Bucky's death? I haven't read a TON of Cap, but my son is a HUGE Cap fan, and he always shows me the various and multiple places where Cap cries over Bucky. That would start to get annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 7:24:54 GMT -5
I read a bit from my Creepy Presents Steve Ditko book last night. And the stories I read were quite great. I think most of the stories were written by Archie Goodwin, and of course all of them were illustrated by Ditko. Perfect team, imo, for those types of stories.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 7, 2016 9:49:24 GMT -5
I haven't read a TON of Cap, but my son is a HUGE Cap fan, and he always shows me the various and multiple places where Cap cries over Bucky. That would start to get annoying. I never really found Cap's remorse for Bucky to be all that bad with the exception of when Cap got fooled twice that Bucky was still alive when baddie of the week built a robot version of him. With Sharon, he just rebukes logic at every turn. I mean I get how stupid people can act when they're in love, but with Cap it was kind of ridiculously implausible
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 7, 2016 11:25:40 GMT -5
I haven't read a TON of Cap, but my son is a HUGE Cap fan, and he always shows me the various and multiple places where Cap cries over Bucky. That would start to get annoying. I never really found Cap's remorse for Bucky to be all that bad with the exception of when Cap got fooled twice that Bucky was still alive when baddie of the week built a robot version of him. With Sharon, he just rebukes logic at every turn. I mean I get how stupid people can act when they're in love, but with Cap it was kind of ridiculously implausible In fairness regarding Sharon, Cap hadn't gotten any for about 20 years at this point. That will mess with anyone's head (I've heard).
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 7, 2016 11:39:06 GMT -5
Doom Patrol 104 Thanks so much for this. That was hilarious. It sounds like vintage GO-GO CHECKS comic-bookery.
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Post by Farrar on Jan 7, 2016 11:58:13 GMT -5
I never really found Cap's remorse for Bucky to be all that bad with the exception of when Cap got fooled twice that Bucky was still alive when baddie of the week built a robot version of him. With Sharon, he just rebukes logic at every turn. I mean I get how stupid people can act when they're in love, but with Cap it was kind of ridiculously implausible In fairness regarding Sharon, Cap hadn't gotten any for about 20 years at this point. That will mess with anyone's head (I've heard). LOl! Yeah well, he could've hooked up with Wanda, she was nuts about him during the Kooky Quartet days of the Avengers. But I guess he only had eyes for blondes back then. And I'm with batflunkie; I was a Silver Age Avengers fan and I've only read Cap's solo Suspense series a few years ago, but I have hard time reconciling the take-charge Cap as he appeared in the Avengers with the neurotic, insecure mess he was in many of those Tales of Suspense stories, especially once he met Sharon.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 7, 2016 12:08:33 GMT -5
I'm with batflunkie; I was a Silver Age Avengers fan and I've only read Cap's solo Suspense series a few years ago, but I have hard time reconciling the take-charge Cap as he appeared in the Avengers with the neurotic, insecure mess he was in many of those Tales of Suspense stories, especially once he met Sharon. I chalk it up to the fact that at the time, Marvel was more interested in the personal turmoils of Super-heroes and their struggles than DC was. I'm sure that back then it was a novel and refreshing change, but now it just reads like a very poorly done writing.com story
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