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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 9, 2020 12:17:23 GMT -5
The DeFalco and Ron Frenz run on Thor (1987-1993, issues 383-459) is probably my favorite Marvel comic from that mostly style over substance era. It was kinda the last holdout of the old Silver/Bronze age Marvel style, if not an outright homage to Lee/Kirby. I would definitely check it out if you haven't before Thanks! That's the kind of tip I was hoping for!  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 9, 2020 22:01:20 GMT -5
The DeFalco and Ron Frenz run on Thor (1987-1993, issues 383-459) is probably my favorite Marvel comic from that mostly style over substance era. It was kinda the last holdout of the old Silver/Bronze age Marvel style, if not an outright homage to Lee/Kirby. I would definitely check it out if you haven't before Thanks! That's the kind of tip I was hoping for! I wasn’t reading many super hero comics at that point but I was going to the comic shop regularly for stuff like Cerebus and ... is this too early for Sandman? ... and I started reading Thor again after a long absence about #405. I read it for two or three years. It’s really good in that era! Fun stories and great art. Very much an homage to the Silver Age. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 9, 2020 22:02:40 GMT -5
(...) 4. Yeah, I remember that bit of dialogue. I think it might've been as the X-Men are saying their goodbyes at the end of the Proteus arc. Personally, I'm more curious about the behind the scenes reason than the in-story reason. Like maybe the reader reaction to GSFF #4 was really negative. Yep, it's at the beginning of X-men #129: Cyclops asks him to join the team, and Jamie responds by saying something like he's a "Kansas farm boy" at heart and prefers to stay and help Moira and Sean run the lab. Yeah, just what a Kansas farm boy would like. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 10, 2020 8:59:57 GMT -5
I finished X-Men Epic Collection vol. 4, reprinting the X-Men's guest appearances from the early 1970s when their series was just reprints. As I noted in my last post in this thread, the Beast stories were just about the only thing I hadn't read before. But reading them together now, I'm surprised by how well various stories fit together. I'm not sure if that was originally the plan, by Englehart did a good job bringing various threads together in the Secret Empire arc in Captain America (especially since he wrote most of the Beast stories). He does botch Juggernaut a bit though. Juggs claims he loses his powers without his helmet, when it really just makes him vulnerable to mental attacks. My impression is that the Beast solo feature ended prematurely, but Englehart did a good job wrapping those plot threads up in Beast's guest appearance and in the Secret Empire arc. But how the heck did Vera Cantor end up dating Calvin Rankin? Also, Hank is reunited with his teammates in Cap #175, so it's sort of odd that he remains out of the X-Men. One would think they'd try to help him with his furry predicament. One pet peeve I have is that in his guest appearance in Captain America, Banshee's face is drawn almost as if to mimic a 19th century racist caricature of an Irishman. What were you doing, Sal Buscema? Also, the transformation Claremont put Magneto through is such a huge departure from his appearances in this era. Here, Magneto is really a cackling irredeemable madman. At some point, I'm going to have go back and read the stuff about how Magneto was restored to adult after Alpha made him an infant. I remember there was an explanation for how Magneto was restored, but strangely I don't recall that include the other infant members of the Brotherhood. Re-reading Wolverine's intro, it's notable how differently he was scripted. He says this like "gents." He uses the word "donnybrook" where Claremont would probably have him say "scrap." In Marvel Team-Up #23, which mainly focus on Iceman, the other X-Men note that they're about to depart on a secret mission. I wonder what ever became of that story; it seems like a hint of a future guest appearance. It doesn't really work as the Krakoa mission, because there's too big of a gap and Professor X appears elsewhere, seemingly untroubled. Another mystery is why Madrox wasn't used as a member of the all-new, all-different X-Men. He shows up in the last pre-GSX #1 guest appearance by an X-Man (Prof. X in Giant-Size Fantastic Four #4). Professor X decides to take Madrox in and train him in the use of his powers. The issue is co-written by Len Wein and Chris Claremont. Except for the fact that he doesn't fit in with the international theme of the new X-Men, he seems like a natural fit. And yet over the next 15 years, he's barely used. Off the top of my head, I think he shows up in the Proteus arc, Fallen Angels, and then the Muir Island Saga, right before he joins X-Factor. I might be wrong, but I don't think he even appeared in the first visit to Muir Island (when Magneto first fought the new team). My pet peeve from these stories is that the X-Men were wearing their original costumes in many of them! And yeah, Banshee was drawn with that ape-like old Irishman caricature in all of his Silver Age appearances, so at least they kept that consistent, if they couldn't be bothered to use the correct X-Men costumes. |
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Post by spoon on Dec 10, 2020 18:28:17 GMT -5
I finished X-Men Epic Collection vol. 4, reprinting the X-Men's guest appearances from the early 1970s when their series was just reprints. As I noted in my last post in this thread, the Beast stories were just about the only thing I hadn't read before. But reading them together now, I'm surprised by how well various stories fit together. I'm not sure if that was originally the plan, by Englehart did a good job bringing various threads together in the Secret Empire arc in Captain America (especially since he wrote most of the Beast stories). He does botch Juggernaut a bit though. Juggs claims he loses his powers without his helmet, when it really just makes him vulnerable to mental attacks. My impression is that the Beast solo feature ended prematurely, but Englehart did a good job wrapping those plot threads up in Beast's guest appearance and in the Secret Empire arc. But how the heck did Vera Cantor end up dating Calvin Rankin? Also, Hank is reunited with his teammates in Cap #175, so it's sort of odd that he remains out of the X-Men. One would think they'd try to help him with his furry predicament. One pet peeve I have is that in his guest appearance in Captain America, Banshee's face is drawn almost as if to mimic a 19th century racist caricature of an Irishman. What were you doing, Sal Buscema? Also, the transformation Claremont put Magneto through is such a huge departure from his appearances in this era. Here, Magneto is really a cackling irredeemable madman. At some point, I'm going to have go back and read the stuff about how Magneto was restored to adult after Alpha made him an infant. I remember there was an explanation for how Magneto was restored, but strangely I don't recall that include the other infant members of the Brotherhood. Re-reading Wolverine's intro, it's notable how differently he was scripted. He says this like "gents." He uses the word "donnybrook" where Claremont would probably have him say "scrap." In Marvel Team-Up #23, which mainly focus on Iceman, the other X-Men note that they're about to depart on a secret mission. I wonder what ever became of that story; it seems like a hint of a future guest appearance. It doesn't really work as the Krakoa mission, because there's too big of a gap and Professor X appears elsewhere, seemingly untroubled. Another mystery is why Madrox wasn't used as a member of the all-new, all-different X-Men. He shows up in the last pre-GSX #1 guest appearance by an X-Man (Prof. X in Giant-Size Fantastic Four #4). Professor X decides to take Madrox in and train him in the use of his powers. The issue is co-written by Len Wein and Chris Claremont. Except for the fact that he doesn't fit in with the international theme of the new X-Men, he seems like a natural fit. And yet over the next 15 years, he's barely used. Off the top of my head, I think he shows up in the Proteus arc, Fallen Angels, and then the Muir Island Saga, right before he joins X-Factor. I might be wrong, but I don't think he even appeared in the first visit to Muir Island (when Magneto first fought the new team). My pet peeve from these stories is that the X-Men were wearing their original costumes in many of them! And yeah, Banshee was drawn with that ape-like old Irishman caricature in all of his Silver Age appearances, so at least they kept that consistent, if they couldn't be bothered to use the correct X-Men costumes. I've read that the X-Men reverted to their original costumes in guest appearances because the reprints in X-Men at the time were stories with their original costumes. The irony was that right after the X-Men switched back to their orignal costumes (Incredible Hulk #172), the reprints reached the point where the team switched to their individualized costumes (X-Men #87, reprinting X-Men #39). Now, it is true that the X-Men appear in their original costumes on the cover of Avengers #110 about a year before that, but in the interior pages of that Avengers #110, they're still in their individualized (or second-generation or whatever you'd call them) costumes. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 11, 2020 15:10:46 GMT -5
The conclusion to the Capwolf and the town of werewolves was pretty entertaining! The big baddie turns into a bigger badder wolf with Man-Wolf's old stone... Starwolf! Love it when they yammer on and on like this!  (Captain America #407 & 408) There's also a back-up story where the Falcon sports a new outfit! I really dig it, but I would've kept the head gear the same as it had been as it let him have a more expressive face.  So adding Cap #409 & 410 to 'the list' (gotta find out what happens to Diamondback and D-Man) as well as #355-364 which I looked up and looks like a good run to go with this wolf saga one. Up next is the late '70s series Captain America: Sentinel Of Liberty #7-12 with a two part Falcon story by Mark Waid in there that seems to rhyme with some current events even though Flac is wearing orange and green. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 11, 2020 16:23:36 GMT -5
My pet peeve from these stories is that the X-Men were wearing their original costumes in many of them! And yeah, Banshee was drawn with that ape-like old Irishman caricature in all of his Silver Age appearances, so at least they kept that consistent, if they couldn't be bothered to use the correct X-Men costumes. I've read that the X-Men reverted to their original costumes in guest appearances because the reprints in X-Men at the time were stories with their original costumes. The irony was that right after the X-Men switched back to their orignal costumes (Incredible Hulk #172), the reprints reached the point where the team switched to their individualized costumes (X-Men #87, reprinting X-Men #39). Now, it is true that the X-Men appear in their original costumes on the cover of Avengers #110 about a year before that, but in the interior pages of that Avengers #110, they're still in their individualized (or second-generation or whatever you'd call them) costumes. No, the X-Men did not revert to their original costumes. They were still in their new costumes in X-Men #66, the last issue of new stories. They were still in those new costumes in their first several appearances in other comics after their own title was cancelled then came back as a reprint title. Then, in Avengers #110, in 1973, they are shown in their old costumes for the first time since 1967, without any explanation, and they made several more appearances in their old costumes in other titles (mainly Avengers and Captain America) until, in Giant-Size X-Men #1 and X-Men #94, when the title was revived, they were again shown in their new costumes, not their original costumes. I assume that they were shown in their original costumes for several of those appearances in the early 70's before their title was revived simply because the artist didn't know they'd gotten new costumes (after all, the X-Men was not one of Marvel's bigger sellers back then, hence the cancellation) and the writer and editor either also didn't realize it, or maybe just didn't bother to have the artist change to the correct costumes for whatever reason. However, I suppose it's possible that they were drawn in their old costumes intentionally to make it consistent with the costumes being shown in the reprint only X-Men title at the time. Kinda dumb, if that's the case, but it's a possibility. |
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Post by spoon on Dec 11, 2020 17:18:46 GMT -5
I've read that the X-Men reverted to their original costumes in guest appearances because the reprints in X-Men at the time were stories with their original costumes. The irony was that right after the X-Men switched back to their orignal costumes (Incredible Hulk #172), the reprints reached the point where the team switched to their individualized costumes (X-Men #87, reprinting X-Men #39). Now, it is true that the X-Men appear in their original costumes on the cover of Avengers #110 about a year before that, but in the interior pages of that Avengers #110, they're still in their individualized (or second-generation or whatever you'd call them) costumes. No, the X-Men did not revert to their original costumes. They were still in their new costumes in X-Men #66, the last issue of new stories. They were still in those new costumes in their first several appearances in other comics after their own title was cancelled then came back as a reprint title. Then, in Avengers #110, in 1973, they are shown in their old costumes for the first time since 1967, without any explanation, and they made several more appearances in their old costumes in other titles (mainly Avengers and Captain America) until, in Giant-Size X-Men #1 and X-Men #94, when the title was revived, they were again shown in their new costumes, not their original costumes. I assume that they were shown in their original costumes for several of those appearances in the early 70's before their title was revived simply because the artist didn't know they'd gotten new costumes (after all, the X-Men was not one of Marvel's bigger sellers back then, hence the cancellation) and the writer and editor either also didn't realize it, or maybe just didn't bother to have the artist change to the correct costumes for whatever reason. However, I suppose it's possible that they were drawn in their old costumes intentionally to make it consistent with the costumes being shown in the reprint only X-Men title at the time. Kinda dumb, if that's the case, but it's a possibility. They were wearing newer costumes. Then, they started wearing older costumes. They reverted to those costumes. If you don't like the verb reverted, you can use some other word. I'm going to use that accurate word, because that's what the word means. I know they were still in their new costumes in X-Men #66. I've literally been posting about these issues here after reading them again. |
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Post by spoon on Dec 11, 2020 17:40:15 GMT -5
I've been reading The Golden Age Sandman Archives vol. 1. I'm more than halfway through. I've read the stories from New York World's Fair Comics #1-2 and Adventure Comics #40-51. It's a solid if unspectacular read. Definitely better than the last Golden Age comics I've read (Golden Age Flash Archives vol. 2). The art is solid, but most pages tend to have the same 8-panel layout, so it stifles the ability to vary things up. Sandman could stand to change his tactics. Oftentimes, his confrontations come down to a shoot-out. Even when he knocks his opponent out with a gas gun, he sometimes gets hit with a bullet. It seems really risk.
One of the better elements is Wesley's girlfriend, Dian Belmont. I like that she knows Sandman's secret identity and is willing to participate in all his adventures. There's one story where Wesley is taking Dian to a party, and she suggests instead that they investigate a case that he had wanted to handle before he picked her up. I like the love interests who come across as active participant in the stories rather than always damsels in distress or dupes who get fooled by the hero's double life. We actually get an origin story for Dian, which back her a more interesting character. Before Dian showed up, the female characters were also active players in the stories.
There hasn't been an origin provided for the Sandman yet though; he's just the generic rich guy who pretends to be spoiled but fights crime in costume.
Sometimes the storytelling is a little murky. Transitions between panels seem unclear. It's usually a minor thing, but the worst example to me is Adventure Comics #48. Part of the story is on a yacht and part is on shore (in a few different locations apparently) and it's confusing why they're going places and how it unfolds. The story could've used a few more captions to supplement the dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 20:50:45 GMT -5
I read Todd McFarlane’s five-issue “Torment” arc from SPIDER-MAN #1-5 (1990).
I did quite like McFarlane’s art on Spidey, including the “barbed wire” webbing. And he made the Lizard look horrific. I like how the story started.
But I think it dragged on, never a good sign in a mere 5-issue arc. Also, while I may be stupid, I am not entirely sure why - SPOILERS - Calypso was manipulating the Lizard. Or what a lot of it was about. The story just fizzled out towards the end, and its conclusion felt anti-climatic. I also found the lettering intrusive and distracting at times.
I appreciate the darker interpretation of Spidey - and the contrast between McFarlane’s Spidey and what would have been on the shelves at the time. I just feel that this might me the most anti-climatic Spider-Man story I’ve ever read. The Lizard seemed a little wasted. Like I said, I’m not entirely sure what Calypso’s plan was - so those of you who are smarter (all of you, I’m sure) might be able to tell me what was going on.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,144 
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Post by Confessor on Dec 12, 2020 6:23:14 GMT -5
I read Todd McFarlane’s five-issue “Torment” arc from SPIDER-MAN #1-5 (1990). I did quite like McFarlane’s art on Spidey, including the “barbed wire” webbing. And he made the Lizard look horrific. I like how the story started. But I think it dragged on, never a good sign in a mere 5-issue arc. Also, while I may be stupid, I am not entirely sure why - SPOILERS - Calypso was manipulating the Lizard. Or what a lot of it was about. The story just fizzled out towards the end, and its conclusion felt anti-climatic. I also found the lettering intrusive and distracting at times. I appreciate the darker interpretation of Spidey - and the contrast between McFarlane’s Spidey and what would have been on the shelves at the time. I just feel that this might me the most anti-climatic Spider-Man story I’ve ever read. The Lizard seemed a little wasted. Like I said, I’m not entirely sure what Calypso’s plan was - so those of you who are smarter (all of you, I’m sure) might be able to tell me what was going on. It's been a while since I read this, but I always kinda liked it back in the day. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Dec 12, 2020 7:53:07 GMT -5
I'm wondering about DeFalco's time as editor-in-chief? I've been writing off late '80s and most of the '90s Marvel but Captain America #401-408 is making me wonder... I've heard the Fantastic Four had an interesting run around then as well. I can put up with too many Wolverine appearances and cameos I guess (Cable and The Punisher not so much, not interested in those guys whatsoever). The art in the soon to be 'Capwolf' has some weaknesses (going by #401) but it's decent enough, not the 'extreme' overdone posing thing, so I think I'll really enjoy getting through #402-408. I tried The Invaders, Black Cat and Black Knight mini series from around this time before Captain America and they were just okay (two had the hyper muscles and posing women with broken spines thing somewhat sadly). I would be willing to check out something else from the 'DeFalco era'... I never rated DeFalco much as a writer His scripts seemed hopelessly clunky and turned me off instantly when he replaced Roger Stern on Amazing Spider-Man and Walt Simonson on Thor. I enjoyed most of Mark Gruenwald's run on Captain America, although the artwork was usually second or third rate, with Kieron Dwyer and Rik Levins being as good as it got. #371 featuring Cap going on a date with Diamondback was my favourite issue from the run. Have you tried Gruenwald's other series, Quasar? The first 40 or so issues were pretty solid. Other DeFalco-era Marvels I liked included James Hudnall on Alpha Flight, Ann Nocenti on Daredevil, Steve Gerber on Foolkiller, Fabian Nicieza on Nomad and Adventures of Captain America, Peter David on Incredible Hulk, Future Imperfect and X-Factor, Peter B Gillis on Doctor Strange in Strange Tales, Roy and Dann Thomas on Doctor Strange, Sorceror Supreme (although I lost interest soon after Jackson Guice left), David Michelinie and Bob Layton's second run on Iron Man, Alan Davis' work as writer/artist on Excalibur, JM DeMatteis on Spectacular Spider-Man, Steve Englehart on Silver Surfer, and Sandy Plunkett and Scott Hampton's Black Panther backup in Solo Avengers #19. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 12, 2020 15:21:47 GMT -5
I enjoyed most of Mark Gruenwald's run on Captain America, although the artwork was usually second or third rate, with Kieron Dwyer and Rik Levins being as good as it got. #371 featuring Cap going on a date with Diamondback was my favourite issue from the run. Have you tried Gruenwald's other series, Quasar? The first 40 or so issues were pretty solid. Other DeFalco-era Marvels I liked included James Hudnall on Alpha Flight, Ann Nocenti on Daredevil, Steve Gerber on Foolkiller, Fabian Nicieza on Nomad and Adventures of Captain America, Peter David on Incredible Hulk, Future Imperfect and X-Factor, Peter B Gillis on Doctor Strange in Strange Tales, Roy and Dann Thomas on Doctor Strange, Sorceror Supreme (although I lost interest soon after Jackson Guice left), David Michelinie and Bob Layton's second run on Iron Man, Alan Davis' work as writer/artist on Excalibur, JM DeMatteis on Spectacular Spider-Man, Steve Englehart on Silver Surfer, and Sandy Plunkett and Scott Hampton's Black Panther backup in Solo Avengers #19. Thanks! I find Levins a strange artist as he can be really good in one panel or on a cover but totally off on proportions on another panel or cover. Generally he does draw good wolves and wolf people! Here's my 'list' so far (for if I get some cash in hand) to dip into that late '80s-early '90s Marvel scene Avengers 341-344, 349 & 350Captain America 355-364, 371, 409-410Thor 431-444, 447-450
the bolded ones are the next/first few I would get I looked over the Fantastic Four but didn't spot a good starting issue while avoiding multi-title crossover things for now. I'd be interested in West Coast Avengers (may even have bought #1 way back) and Iron Man also circa 1989-92 I think. Gruenwald, DeFalco, Byrne are favored writers. Frenz, Ryan, Simonson, Byrne, Epting for artists. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 16, 2020 16:19:09 GMT -5
Captain America: Sentinel Of Liberty #12 I really enjoyed some of the stories set in the past which appeared in this series (along the lines of Spider-Man's Webspinners of about this same time)... there was only one extreme clunker; I absolutely hated #10, with JFK president, Marilyn Monroe and extreme zany cartoonishness in the drawing only some of the time. However, this final issue, #12, is the best thing I've ever read with the original Bucky Barnes included! Mark Waid hits a home run on this one as far as I'm concerned making Jame Buchanan Barnes a more fully developed character than I've known before! The art by Doug Braithwaite is particularly good although the coloring is that overly shiny late '90s which some dislike. The story is a Cap remembering Bucky one, but it's beautifully handled and combines for a cohesive story and portrait from their first meetings to the final adventure.  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 18, 2020 19:44:36 GMT -5
I've been busy! With one thing and another. My temporary job went on hiatus last week and I was running around getting some christmas shopping done and filling out some cards and trying to get them sent out so they might get to their destination by December 25. And then I worked my part-time job a few days. And then … my temporary job asked me back for … I don't know how long. They told us we were done until March. But we aren't.
I'm reading a few comics almost every night! But not having much time to write anything about them! I was hoping to make an attempt to get caught up with a few comments … but not right away! But I guess I can get started by talking about Thor!
I'm almost done with my Thor project! For several years, I've been trying to read every issue of Thor that I've never read before, up to the period when I started reading regularly in 1976. (My first issue of Thor was #242, but I read it sporadically until #253, and I had every issue after that up to around #285.) So I have a few Masterworks, and one Showcase volume, and there were some reprint collections I got from the library. But last month, Comixology had digital copies of Marvel Masterworks on sale! So I got the two volumes that cover (roughly) #228 to #254 and I've making my way through them. I just read #252. The next issue is where I came in and stayed for a while!
It's been wonderful and trippy, with Buscema art! Sometimes inked by Sinnott and sometimes by Tony DeZuniga. (It's all great!) Odin had amnesia! There were some Egyptian gods! Firelord! Sif became Jane Foster … and then went back to being Sif! Odin became a horrible dictator … but it wasn't Odin! IT WAS MANGOG!
Also … Balder, Karnilla, Hela, Fandral, Hogun, Krista, Hildegarde, Volstagg … and Hela!
I have a few issues left in this last Masterworkd volume, and of course I'm going to read them! It's been an awfully long time since I read the conclusion of the Ulik story.
It's a great run for Thor! Very under-rated.
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