Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,143 
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Post by Confessor on Feb 15, 2021 13:17:32 GMT -5
As I've gotten more interested in the background history of the comics I love (mostly as a result of being part of this community for the last 15 years), I've been really frustrated by the lack of quality journalism and serious critical study available. My first love is popular music and in that field there is masses of high quality serious critical and historical evaluation, as you mention. I guess the lack of quality critical study is symptomatic of the lack of respect comic books have received from mainstream society historically. It's certainly better than it was. Things like The Secret History of Marvel Comics: Jack Kirby and the Moonlighting Artists at Martin Goodman's Empire and Marvel Comics: The Untold Story are getting there. But there is--understandably--a focus on creators. What I'd really like to see is more about the business decisions and forces that determined what would end up on the stands. What was going on in the DC and Marvel offices in the 60s and 70s? Yes, you're right, things have a improved a little, with the aforementioned books and various internet sources, but it's still hardly a wealth of literature. Also, because so many of the great old writers and artists are no longer with us, the oppurtunity to ask them really in-depth questions about their work -- as opposed to more frivilous, fan-boy questions or questions that simply focus on key events in the comics they worked on -- has unfortunately slipped by. |
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Post by MDG on Feb 15, 2021 13:41:29 GMT -5
It's certainly better than it was. Things like The Secret History of Marvel Comics: Jack Kirby and the Moonlighting Artists at Martin Goodman's Empire and Marvel Comics: The Untold Story are getting there. But there is--understandably--a focus on creators. What I'd really like to see is more about the business decisions and forces that determined what would end up on the stands. What was going on in the DC and Marvel offices in the 60s and 70s? Yes, you're right, things have a improved a little, with the aforementioned books and various internet sources, but it's still hardly a wealth of literature. Also, because so many of the great old writers and artists are no longer with us, the oppurtunity to ask them really in-depth questions about their work -- as opposed to more frivilous, fan-boy questions or questions that simply focus on key events in the comics they worked on -- has unfortunately slipped by. Yeah--even in the past, you were likely to get the 10th interview with John Buscema or Murphy Anderson than with someone involved in production or distribution. |
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 15, 2021 14:00:26 GMT -5
Sometime in the mid-70s, editor John Warner said he thought Marvel had over-extended on horror in the early 70s, but that ONE good horror magazine could be a success. By the time the next one came along, Roger Slifer had replaced him as editor on MARVEL PREVIEW. Slifer held the same belief. He was given the go-ahead for a one shot... and possibly, a quarterly. At any rate, MARVEL PREVIEW #12 (Fall'77) was billed as "THE HAUNT OF HORROR", and as described in the editorial, was not intended to simply revive the general anthology, but be a showcase for various horror SERIES that had fallen by the wayside in the mass cancellation of EVERY B&W horror mag they were doing.
However, on re-reading it this morning, it seems to me what Slifer did was exactly what John Warner had done in issue #8 (billed as " THE LEGION OF MONSTERS"). That is, collect INVENTORY stories leftover from said mass cancellation. LILITH, THE DAUGHTER OF DRACULA: "Profits Are Plunging" is by Steve Gerber & Bob Brown, the same guys who did the previous several LILITH stories in both VAMPIRE TALES and DRACULA LIVES, and I have no doubt it had been sitting around for several years before it saw print. This story involves ecology, a topic long ignored since the 70s but which it turns out is EVEN MORE desperately urgent RIGHT NOW (especially given how many major cities are facing WATER CONTAMINATION, the very theme Gerber touched on here). "Psycho-Ward" involves the healthcare industry, and has a viscious, shocking twist ending. Doug Moench & Mike Kaluta. My guess is this was leftover from THE HAUNT OF HORROR. GILGAMESH, IMMORTAL WARRIOR: "Death Of The Living Dead" by David Kraft, Bob Brown & Pablo Marcos. My guess is, this was intended for TALES OF THE ZOMBIE. DRACULA, LORD OF VAMPIRES: "Picture Of Andrea" by Doug Moench & Sonny Trinidad. A stand-alone story that only features Dracula in a brief cameo, this was clearly leftover from DRACULA LIVES!, and oddly seems to predict the path taken by the later TOMB OF DRACULA B&W magazine. This spooked me... because it is BLATENTLY a tribute / take-off on " LAURA". It occured to me I must have read this at least 5 or 10 years before ever seeing the Otto Preminger movie (which has since become one of my top favorites), but at the time, I must have completely forgotten reading this comic! I always remember halfway thru the film, when the detective is investigating the murder, and is hanging around Laura's apartment, and staring at her portrait painting... the first time I saw the movie, right then, it suddenly crossed my mind, "Hey, wouldn't it be something if she turned up ALIVE?" AND THEN SHE DID. Freaked me out. I had completely forgotten an almost-identical situation was in this comic I'd read (and forgotten) years earlier. Except, in this case, the murdered girl who returned home 3 days later HAD really been killed... and turned up as a VAMPIRE. |
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 16, 2021 11:36:17 GMT -5
Alright, now this was just too damned much... BIZARRE ADVENTURES #33 (1982)  By this point, they'd changed the name of the anthology from MARVEL PREVIEW, Jim Shooter was E.I.C., and that noted alcholic Denny O'Neil was editing the thing. So in a period where "horror" had totally fallen out of favor at Marvel, these deciples of dark moods decided to take one last swing at the genre... Though not listed on the cover, the contents page lists the issue's theme as " FEAR". (That was one of countless series titles Marvel used in the early 70s.) TALES OF THE ZOMBIE: "Damballah's Deeds" was by Doug Moench & Dave Simons, an artist whose SMOOTH airbrush renderings often made Gene Colan's work look even more stunning than usual around this time. A twisted tale in which Simon Garth believes he may a chance to find "final rest". Being this is Marvel... guess again. VAULT OF EVIL: "Slayride" by Bruce Jones & Bob Hall. This is one of the SICKEST things I have ever, ever seen from Marvel. The story is insane, disturbed & depraved, and Bob Hall proves why he F***ing needs a decent inker. GEEZ!!! HAUNT OF HORROR: "The Survivor" by Marc DeMatteis, Jeff Isherwood, Ian Akin & Brian Garvey. An extremely-offbeat ghost story that screams "Jim Shooter" as it has some homo-PHOBIC undertones. Looks nice, reads awful. (And I generally like Bruce Jones' work.) TOMB OF DRACULA: "The Blood Bequest". This "final" (  ) Dracula story for the era delves into the 2-part "origin" story from DRACULA LIVES! #2 & 3 (which I recently re-read), then EXPANDS on it greatly, before, during and after the events shown in those episodes. I don't think it was called for. It tries to add an extra level of supernatural horror and ungodly DEPRAVITY, both in the story and the art. By Steve Perry (writer) and STEVE BISSETTE with John Totleben (artists). Yep, the "SWAMP-THING" art team, before-the-fact (I think). This entire issue is just about the single most disturbing SICK S*** I have ever seen from Marvel. I can really do without stuff like this, and I'm glad it seems to be the last one of these. Maybe now I can find some more "entertaining" old comics to re-read....... |
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Post by berkley on Feb 16, 2021 12:48:24 GMT -5
What a terrble cover. Is that a photograph? One of the worst I've ever seen on a magazine.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 16, 2021 18:17:19 GMT -5
Archie's Superhero Comics Digest Magazine, no. 2  This was one of many re-reads of this book. I loved digests back in the day, and this was always one of my favorites. It was only as an adult, though, that I noticed how eclectic its contents are. It has a bunch of stories featuring the Red Circle heroes (Black Hood, Fly, Shield, etc.), some reprints from the 1960s, some new, two Captain Pureheart/Evilheart and Superteen stories with the Archie characters, and two horrorish stories (one drawn by Wally Wood, the other by Jesse Santos). So basically, in the same book you have stuff like this:  Juxtaposed with stuff like this: 
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 16, 2021 19:00:26 GMT -5
Archie's Superhero Comics Digest Magazine, no. 2 This was one of many re-reads of this book. I loved digests back in the day, and this was always one of my favorites. It was only as an adult, though, that I noticed how eclectic its contents are. It has a bunch of stories featuring the Red Circle heroes (Black Hood, Fly, Shield, etc.), some reprints from the 1960s, some new, two Captain Pureheart/Evilheart and Superteen stories with the Archie characters, and two horrorish stories (one drawn by Wally Wood, the other by Jesse Santos). So basically, in the same book you have stuff like this: Juxtaposed with stuff like this: I don't think I ever saw that one on the newsstand, but I did buy Archie's Super Hero Special #1. I was really intrigued by the Archies as super-hero thing that was more prominent in the first digest.  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 16, 2021 19:01:11 GMT -5
I'm starting a re-read of Jon Sable: Freelance. It's been at least a decade since I've read it.
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Post by tartanphantom on Feb 16, 2021 19:56:55 GMT -5
I'm starting a re-read of Jon Sable: Freelance. It's been at least a decade since I've read it.
I just did a 3-part podcast with Crimebuster on that title. I think he's dropping Part 1 tomorrow... |
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 16, 2021 21:21:31 GMT -5
I'm starting a re-read of Jon Sable: Freelance. It's been at least a decade since I've read it.
I just did a 3-part podcast with Crimebuster on that title. I think he's dropping Part 1 tomorrow... I just posted it! |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 17, 2021 4:32:13 GMT -5
I don't think I ever saw that one on the newsstand, but I did buy Archie's Super Hero Special #1. I was really intrigued by the Archies as super-hero thing that was more prominent in the first digest. For me it was just the opposite. Back then, I only ever had the second one (purchased at a giant newsstand in downtown LA during a family trip). I have both of them now, and I have to say, I still prefer the second one. |
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Feb 17, 2021 22:10:04 GMT -5
Ok, so I've been reading old comics like crazy for about 9 months now, my return to the hobby after about a decade of very minimal engagement. Recently finished/paused some longer runs so I thought I'd give my thoughts on favorites, underrated/overrated, creators, etc over this time. (This was part of a post from another board, so I omitted anything related to the last 10 years)
Favourite reads (no particular order)
Starlin's Captain Marvel and Warlock: I dunno, I just really like Starlin's art. These two runs aren't perfect but I found them a quick and easy read. Especially liked Captain Marvel. Plus, Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel was great
Englehart's Avengers: Had been wanting to read this run (105-150, with plot credits for 151-52, plus four Giant Size issues) for many years, and it did not disappoint. It peaks with the end of the Mantis saga and the wedding of Vision and Scarlet Witch in Giant Size #4 imo. It runs out of a bit of steam for the last 12 or so issues, but George Perez does take over the art chores, so that's a major plus considering it was musical chairs before him
Englehart's Dr.Strange 1973-1975: Started this in 2018 and finally finished it last March before my reading explosion. Great stuff, especially with Frank Brunner on art
Defenders 1971-1976: Originally I was just going to read Gerber's run (20-41) but decided to start from the very beginning (Marvel Feature #1), and I'm glad I did. Through Thomas, Englehart, Wein and Gerber you get a bunch of fun characters, wacky stories and solid Sal Buschema art. Always put a smile on my face. Maybe my ultimate covid comic comfort food
Tomb of Dracula 1972-1974: I've been taking it slow with this series but I've enjoyed almost everything so far (though #24). A few missteps, and writer musical chairs early on, but once Wolfman finds his stride (with the great Gene Colon on art from #1) this is really good. Great cast of characters, with Dracula himself an all-time great
New Frontier: Started to dip into comics from approximately 2000-2010 in a bid to catch up on stuff I missed.(will do 2011-? later this year) This is a great series, and a love letter to 50s-60s DC
Unstable Molecules: This came out around 2003 and is basically an indie-style take on the Fantastic Four. Highly recommended
Enjoyable but inconsistent/missing something
Thomas/Adams' X Men: Mostly just skimmed though this for the art by Neal Adams, which was pretty top notch, done just before he became huge with Green Lantern/Green Arrow and Batman. Considering what came before for the X Men in the 60s, this was definitely the peak of the title before being doomed to 5 years as a reprint mag, even with Thomas' dialogue not exactly aging well
Gerber's Man Thing 1972-1974: One of my main missions of the last year was to finally read Gerber's 70s output, which was relatively difficult to accomplish 20 years ago during my last fandom peak. Man Thing was up and down, as the years have dulled the satire a bit. When it hits (such as with the Superman spoof, Wundarr) it's great, but a lot of the run is pretty average. Mike Ploog's art during the second half is awesome, though
Kirby's Jimmy Olsen and the Demon: Another mission was to go through the 70s Kirby I haven't read (basically everything besides New Gods, Forever People, and Mister Miracle). Olsen was fun, especially at the start of the run. I thought the Demon was pretty good most of the time, but also kinda petered out at the end. Going to go back to the 50s for my next Kirby fix, with Challengers of the Unknown. Then, I think, either Kamandi or the Eternals
Englehart's Captain America: This run (153-186) started off great with the return of the 50s Cap and Bucky, now deranged due to taking the Super Soldier serum without being exposed to the supplemental "Vita rays", which prevent eventual insanity. After that the book kinda meanders until the big Secret Empire saga, which was hit and miss imo. A disillusioned Cap subsequently quitting, hitting the road, and becoming Nomad, with the Falcon picking up the slack in NYC, and a succession of ill-prepared replacement Cap's running around, is a better story. The less said about end of the run, featuring an extremely ill-conceived retcon of the Falcon's origin, the better
Panther's Rage by McGregor: Great art throughout (Jungle Action 6-18), but McGregor's purple prose almost killed me by the end
Ditko's Shade the Changing Man: Maybe Ditko's last hurrah? Definitely a fun, offbeat science fiction story, with a Dr. Strange vibe to the art (the covers are particularly great). Just as things were kicking into another gear, the book was canceled as part of the infamous DC Implosion of 1978
Grell's Longbow Hunters: This was pretty good. Great art. I probably would've been more into it if I was more of a Green Arrow fan
Daredevil: Yellow: Plan on finishing all the Loeb and Sale "colour" mini series'. I had only read, and loved, Spider Man: Blue before. This was ok. Frank Miller had covered a lot of this ground already, so it didn't feel as "new" to me. I guess if I had read this when it first came out, when Karen Page's death was still a recent development, I would've enjoyed this more. I also haven't read much of 1960s DD outside of the original 11 issues, so I dont have an attachment to her as a character. Going to try Hulk: Gray next
Nothing special/skimmed
Kirby's New Gods coda: I really liked "Even Gods Must Die", the 1984 sequel to New Gods that was included in the baxter reprints of the original series. Very much an Empire Strikes Back feel, with Orion being left for dead at the end after finally confronting Darkseid. Hunger Dogs, the graphic novel finale, left me kinda cold. It felt like a totally different story than what had come before in many ways. The way Kirby illustrated Darkseid being left alone and pathetic was great, though
Prez: This was another one I had wanted to read back in the day just because the premise sounded so wacky. This was...definitely wacky, much like most of Joe Simon's 70s output. This was like the comic book equivalent of watching Alice's Restuarant or something, an artifact of an era where you really needed to be there to fully appreciate it, maybe
Gerber's Guardians of the Galaxy (Marvel Presents 3-9): I think I need a break from Gerber. This was not without its charms. The characters are mostly likable. I especially liked Martinex, who always strives to be good and do the right thing, and Vance Astro, who is having a really, really hard time coping with being a thousand year old man who will turn to dust if he takes off his costume. Plus you get the crazy metaphorical cosmic sex scene between Vance and Nikki in issue 7!
World's Greatest Comic Magazine: This came out to coincide with the FFs 40th anniversary in 2001. The concept is "what if Stan and Jack ended their run on FF with an epic storyline that put a bow on the first 102 issues?" This was mostly fun, but a little hollow. A bunch of different artists do their best Kirby impression, Dr. Doom becomes godlike, but in the end 12 issues was a bit much for me (and as you can tell, I was on a bit of an FF kick last year)
The Order: I saw this mentioned as something recommended from Marvel from the last 20 years. It's a Defenders story by Kurt Busiek, and after finishing Gerber's run I thought I'd check it out. It's good but not terribly memorable or anything. Defenders mega fans will probably really like it
Strange Tales (2009-10): I just skimmed through these issues, which was an anthology series of indie talent doing mostly comical takes on Marvel characters. Some really funny stuff (Banner having to turn into the Hulk in order to open a jar of pickles was my fave), some really esoteric stuff, and some really weird stuff all together by some really talented creators. Six giant sized issues was a bit too much for a limited concept, though
Early-70s Ghost Rider: Ploog's art is wonderful, but the story didnt hook me to survive past his time on the book
Not Brand Echh: Another one I just skimmed though (dear God, there is more text than a 19th century novel), pretty much entirely for the artists. Love Marie Severin, and it's great seeing Colon doing humour
Fun
Spidey/Torch 2005: Saw this recommended and decided to check it out. Fun, easy read. Plan on checking out Slott's She Hulk eventually
Marvel Two in One 1-7: These are so much fun. I plan on resuming this eventually and also going through Marvel Team Up (only read the first 4 issues so far)
Not Good
America vs the Justice Society: I'm a HUGE Earth 2 fan. I remember trying to find these issues many years ago, before it was reprinted, with no luck. Turns it it wasn't worth the wait. Talk about your 19th century novels, Jesus Christ, Roy! Also, the convoluted plot really doesn't make sense. Desperately needed Jerry Ordway on art, but not sure if even he could've saved this. Big letdown
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 17, 2021 23:47:44 GMT -5
Olsen was fun, especially at the start of the run.For whatever maddening reason, it took me forever to get my hands on the first 2 issues. When I finally did, and was able to read it right from the start, it blew my mind how the first 6 issues were paced & structured not like a serial, but like a MOVIE. Kirby also managed this same stunt & vibe in the first 6 issues of CAPTAIN VICTORY years later. The less said about end of the run, featuring an extremely ill-conceived retcon of the Falcon's origin, the betterCrazy but true: Steve did something rather similar during his run of GREEN LANTERN, when, after doing an in-depth exploration of the entire history of the Hal Jordan-Carol Ferris relationship-from- hell, OUT OF NOWHERE, he revealed that the Len Wein-Dave Gibbons villain The Predator was actually Carol Ferris. It was, truthfully, the ONE element of his entire run on that series that just seemed wrong in a way that was utterly jaw-dropping. I guess all that LSD wound catch up with him at odd points in the 80s. Near the unexpected ABRUPT end of Gerard Jones' run on the series, several years later, Jones FIXED Steve's F***-up in a way that really impressed me and made me smile. Then a few months later, that colossal arrogant A**H*** Kevin Dooley BOOTED Jones off the series because he refused to follow Dooley's CHARACTER-DESTRUCTIVE plans. Oy. (Decades, and DC kept finding ways to SCREW OVER Hal Jordan... over and over and over.) Hunger Dogs, the graphic novel finale, left me kinda cold.One of my top all-time favorite Kirby stories. It was the bit in the finale where Darkseid DESTROYED New Genesis-- with a SINGLE bomb-- that did it. And then, the inhabitants of Apokalips realized-- hey-- we've been stock-piling MILLIONS of those things! What happens if even ONE of them goes off-- maybe by accident? A POWERFUL allegory for our real world, then, and still now. Plus you get the crazy metaphorical cosmic sex scene between Vance and Nikki in issue 7!I never thought about it at the time. But that scene-- I AM 100% CONVINCED-- inspired the "climax" (heeheehee) of " STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE". Someone in reviewing that film referred to it as " A FORTY MILLION DOLLAR F***". No kidding. In the days when Gerber was doing GUARDIANS (the series he personally revived from total oblivion after Arnold Drake was FIRED out of the company), writers were considered "de facto editors". NOBODY in the office was reading the stuff, and editors didn't have time to fix problems, unless something disastrous cropped up. Gerber's "cosmic sex scene" got PUBLISHED and out to the readers before anyone in the office knew what he'd gotten away with. Gerber was FIRED off the book over it. Heh. Early-70s Ghost RiderMY favorite issues were where I first came in-- Tony Isabella & JIM MOONEY. When Mooney left, the art never recovered. Isabella spent 2 years building to a climax on one big story... and just before the last chapter got done, Jim " BECAUSE I SAID SO, DAMMIT" Shooter stuck his nose in, BOOTED Isabella off the book, and completely BASTARDIZED the ending. Then turned Gerry Conway loose to do nothing whatsoever interesting for a few issues... before Shooter did more of the same, finally leaving right when he'd sent Johnny into the desert not knowing Roxie had been hypnotized into a state of amnesia. (Bastard.) Roger McKenzie did much better with that awful situation... but then he was gone, replaced with Michael Fleisher, who kept telling the same story every issue for around 40 straight issues. No wonder Roger Stern was such an improvement when HE finally took over....... the convoluted plot really doesn't make senseYep, that's "Roy Thomas" all over. 
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,143
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Post by Confessor on Feb 18, 2021 5:29:53 GMT -5
Englehart's Dr.Strange 1973-1975: Started this in 2018 and finally finished it last March before my reading explosion. Great stuff, especially with Frank Brunner on art That's a great run on Dr. Strange. Probably the best and most enjoyable since the original Lee/Ditko run for me. |
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 18, 2021 10:24:01 GMT -5
Englehart's Dr.Strange 1973-1975: Started this in 2018 and finally finished it last March before my reading explosion. Great stuff, especially with Frank Brunner on art That's a great run on Dr. Strange. Probably the best and most enjoyable since the original Lee/Ditko run for me. I agree as far as story, and Brunner's art was second to none. But the first Colan/Thomas run of 172-183 had some of the most mind altering, innovative art of the Silver Age. |
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) Dracula story for the era delves into the 2-part "origin" story from DRACULA LIVES! #2 & 3 (which I recently re-read), then EXPANDS on it greatly, before, during and after the events shown in those episodes. I don't think it was called for. It tries to add an extra level of supernatural horror and ungodly DEPRAVITY, both in the story and the art. By Steve Perry (writer) and STEVE BISSETTE with John Totleben (artists). Yep, the "SWAMP-THING" art team, before-the-fact (I think).
