|
Post by commond on Feb 24, 2021 8:43:56 GMT -5
Here's a funny one for you. Although I first saw some Marvels in the mid-late 60s, I started buying them new around 1973 or so.
There were several artists who fans in the 70s came to feel were "THE" artists for certain titles...
Hulk -- Herb Trimpe Iron Man -- George Tuska Spider-Man -- Ross Andru Captain America -- Sal Buscema
AL 4 of these guys got TONS of HATE MAIL when they first took over those books!!! It's shocking to go back and see that.
I guess Buscema artwork after BWS was jarring to the eyes. I read somewhere that Thomas wanted Buscema from the beginning but they couldn't use one of their top payed artists for an unproven book. As Roy mentioned in the letters page, the same people who were up in arms over Buscema replacing Smith were the same people who accused Smith of being a Kirby knock-off in the beginning. Gil Kane got a lot of negative letters over his two issue stint between Smith's runs, but personally I like Kane's work on Conan.
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Feb 24, 2021 12:36:00 GMT -5
I remember when Arnold Schwarteneggar was announced as playing CONAN, I thought, "Well, he looks the part".
But the movie was AWFUL. Too serious, sombre, no fun, half the action seemed to be in slow-motion, and on top of that WRETCHED uncalled-for "origin" they tacked on (which I believe was swiped from Kirby's "ATLAS", except, DONE WRONG), he didn't seem half as intelligent as the character should have been.
Meanwhile, Lee Horseley as "Talon" in "THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER", despite being a cheap knock-off looked and felt MORE like "CONAN" than Arnold did. I've enjoyed that movie immensely each time I've seen it.
I just watched the 2 CONAN films again, and I've promised myself I will never watch the first one again. The 2nd, however... had to be 10 times more fun, and I might even go for a DVD one of these days. If the 2nd movie had been the 1st movie... they might have gotten 5 or more films out of that series.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Feb 24, 2021 13:05:37 GMT -5
Since I read its sequel recently, I decided to also re-read Archie's Super-hero Special no. 1: This one has more stories featuring the actual Archie superhero hijinks featuring the likes of Pureheart the Powerful, Evilheart, Superteen and Captain Hero, while most of the rest feature Red Circle heroes from the 1960s. Of those, the best one stars the late '50s Shield that was revamped by Simon and Kirby. Not a bad collection in all, but ... I still prefer the second super-hero digest. This was such a fun digest; at the time it was published, I did not have any of the comics featuring the Archie gang as superheroes, so this was a treat. Eventually, I did collect those appearances in the various titles, but this digest always brings back fond memories.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 24, 2021 15:21:18 GMT -5
Read Jan Strnad and Richard Corben's Mutant World. I've been slowly working my way through the stuff that was nominated for Kirby Awards for 1985.
I enjoyed this more than I expected to. I've never been a huge Corben fan and I've been lukewarm on a lot of other stuff the duo has done. This was generally an enjoyable post-apocalyptic cartoon. And I say that because it has definite overtones of Looney Tunes to it. I'm trying to decide if the episodic nature (it originally appeared in serialized form). I was pleasantly pleased with a book I really didn't expect to be all that thrilled with. \
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 24, 2021 18:18:42 GMT -5
In the continuing reading of the 1985 Kirby Award nominees...Marvel Graphic Novel #14, aka Swords of the Swashbucklers. This book just perplexes the shit out of me. Not just how it got nominated for "Best Graphic Album" (because it's by far the weakest of the 4 that I've read), but what the thought process was in green-lighting this in the format in which it was published. Because this is not a book that in any way deserved the "graphic novel" treatment. Essentially what we have is a old fashioned space opera where "space pirates" from outer space who fight the "Colonizers" come to Earth through intense serendipity and end up saving the planet and saving the pirate queen Captain's shirt-tale relation who is turned in to a super-hero...because...science. Ultimately not a lot is settled because this is just set-up for a later Epic comics series. I'm willing to give some on the plot silliness because this is unabashed space opera and that's generally a very silly genre. But the scripting is pretty universally awful, even for Bill Mantlo, who would always be on the lower end of my "marginally acceptable" Marvel writers. Even leaving aside the pirate lingo, the Earth humans speak nothing like normal people speak. And it's jarring. Jackson Guice's art is generally okay. It's occasionally pretty good, particularly when it involves space scenes. But the printing honestly doesn't do it any favors and I feel it would have looked better on newsprint. If this were the first three issues of a fairly forgettable attempt by Marvel to produce something besides super-heroes it would be fine for what it is. But as a $5.95 ($15.00 in today's money) graphic novel it pretty much fails. And if it's one of the five best Graphic albums of 1984, that year was more dire than I remember.
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Feb 25, 2021 9:08:34 GMT -5
SWASHBUCKLERS was pretty much what Mantlo & Guice left MICRONAUTS to do, wasn't it?
I only have vague memories of this, but something tells me this, at least, WASN'T AS AWFUL as MICRONAUTS: THE NEW VOYAGES was. (Boy, was that unbearably bad from start to finish.)
|
|
Roquefort Raider
CCF Mod Squad
Modus omnibus in rebus
Posts: 17,291
Member is Online
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 25, 2021 9:44:46 GMT -5
After listening to Crimebuster 's and tartanphantom 's podcast on Jon Sable, I revisited the first six issues of the book (and for good measure, fished out Starslayer #1-6 from the longboxes too). Grell was already a popular artist at the time, thanks to his work on Legion of Super-heroes but mostly for his creation of Warlord; he had also done good work on the Tarzan Sunday supplement, which he had taken over from Gil Kane. I really liked Grell. His starting creator-owned series at Pacific and First made a lot of sense. Jon Sable presents itself as more grounded than your typical comic-book; it's not a super-hero nor even a super-spy series, and it tries to remain realistic (or realistic-looking). Something that I think helps a lot in that regard is Grell's frequent use of actual photos of cityscapes, probably using the old technique of photocopying a postcard, then photocopying the copy, then copying that copy until a certain blurriness is obtained; the result is pasted onto the page. It makes backgrounds look real without giving that jarring effect resulting from pasting a cartoon onto a crisp colour photograph. (Later artists would painstakingly draw cityscapes by hand, but that is never as convincing). Sable has a specific face; he's not Oliver Queen or Travis Morgan without a goatee. That adds to the verisimilitude of the strip. Other details like Sable's girlfriend being taller than he is are also things that are not required by the plot, but add to the richness of its make-believe world. Plotwise, I could have done without the odd conceit of a mercenary moonlighting as a very famous and successful writer of children's books (complete with a secret identity, a wig and a fake moustache); it strikes me as the kind of complication no real person would want to impose on themselves. If Sable really wants to keep his two careers separate, he could still use a pseudonym but abstain from making public appearances for promotion's sake (I doubt Dr. Seuss owed his own success to marketing campaigns forcing him to make multiple public appearances). The series is set in the early '80s, and it can be now seen as a period piece. Politics and world history play an important role in the overall tale, and one couldn't imagine the same Jon Sable running around today (like all other super-heroes still do), pretending that past references to the 1972 Olympics or the rise to power of Rober Mugabe don't matter anymore; they are an intrinsic part of the story. One other aspect really sent me back to those days of my youth: villains turn out to be old Nazis (they're almost all dead of old age, now) and when a group has to be used in the role of the beleaguered underdog, it is often the Jews in general or Israelis in particular. That made a lot of sense when the Kippur war was still fresh in everyone's memory, but a generation later it sounds oddly off; history has moved on. The mag's 1980s world politics struck me as even more out of date than old cars, mentions of the Concorde, rotary phones or appearances by Ronald Reagan. Not in an unpleasant way, mind you; to me, the 1980s is still the "real" world, but in the sense that it does read like a story firmly set in the past. The origin story told in #3-6, is a very, very good one. Just the right pacing, just the right ratio of pathos/action; it really hooked me on the character (something the first two issues would have failed to do, had I read them first). One thing I noticed about Grell the writer : in most of his issues, whether it be in Sable, Warlord or Starslayer, he manages to drop a memorable bit of dialog. Here are a few examples (from memory) : in an issue of Warlord, amazed that a magic mirror could show him something he needs to know for plot reasons, Travis Morgan is told by his daughter the sorceress "People usually see what they want in a mirror". Oooof! Good one. Here, it's an exchange between Sable and Elise, his future wife (she's an Olympic athlete who won a medal in '68 but not in '72; he's an Olympic athlete who didn't win any medal). She goes : "don't you mind having dinner with a has-been?" and he replies "not if you don't mind having dinner with a never-was". I wish I was that quick-witted! I don't have that many more issues of Jon Sable, but the ones I have would definitely prompt me to get more if I found any at a decent price someday.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 25, 2021 10:31:56 GMT -5
After listening to Crimebuster 's and tartanphantom 's podcast on Jon Sable, I revisited the first six issues of the book (and for good measure, fished out Starslayer #1-6 from the longboxes too). I don't have that many more issues of Jon Sable, but the ones I have would definitely prompt me to get more if I found any at a decent price someday. I re-read the entire series recently. Well I skimmed the last few issues. You can definitely stop when Grell quits the art-work with issue 44. But it had been losing a bit of steam even before that. I'd say that issue 27 was probably the end of the peak period for the book. But it's still quite good through Grell's departure from doing the artwork and it degenerates rapidly from there.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,953
|
Post by Crimebuster on Feb 25, 2021 10:45:50 GMT -5
The series is set in the early '80s, and it can be now seen as a period piece. Politics and world history play an important role in the overall tale, and one couldn't imagine the same Jon Sable running around today (like all other super-heroes still do), pretending that past references to the 1972 Olympics or the rise to power of Rober Mugabe don't matter anymore; they are an intrinsic part of the story. Well, it fell outside the scope of our podcast, but after recording these episodes I dug out the 2007 Jon Sable: Ashes of Eden mini-series, which is one of two mini- series he did in the 00's. Grell decided, in fact, to just have all the cast be the same ages they were when he stopped the book almost 20 years earlier, rather than age Sable up into his early 60's. So he detached everything from its specific timeline and gave it kind of a sliding Marvel style timeline, without actually getting specific about that. Personally the mini-series didn't really work for me. It was sort of a re-introduction to the characters and cast, but in a way where I'm not sure it would have meant anything if you weren't already familiar with the series. And if you were, like me, it felt weird trying to do the mental gymnastics to figure out why nobody has aged or progressed in 20 years, especially since the plot was another case of it being specific to the time period - in this case, about the Iraq War. So it felt neither here nor there, and I'm not sure who it was for.
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Feb 25, 2021 11:22:38 GMT -5
Captain America #314 After watching The Winter Soldier again, I decided to pick back up on my entire Volume 1 read through of Cap. This issue focused on a Nighthawk from another dimension coming to ours in order to lead a rebellion against the Squadron Supreme who has brainwashed the entire world. Cap has some obvious misgivings about the whole affair, as do the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Nighthawk eventually runs into some old enemies of his that are seeking political asylum from their world and it's then that Cap agrees to help Nighthawk, only to see him vanish I felt like this issue was a good break from the intensity of Serpent Society storyline. Been meaning to read Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme, maybe I'll do that at some point
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 25, 2021 13:06:12 GMT -5
I decided to continue my recent digest kick, so I pulled outt this one, Golden Comics Digest #32 (1973) - highlighting Woody Woodpecker's summer fun... Back when I was a kid and went through a funny animal phase, I only read a very few of the comics based on characters from the Walter Lantz Studios, one or two Andy Panda books and maybe one Woody Woodpecker one, but I'm not entirely sure about the latter. They didn't have the same attraction for me as the Disney comics, esp. the Disney duck stories (most of which I later learned were done by Carl Barks), and now I can see why. None of these stories here are bad, but they're very much kiddie fare in every way. They just lack the spark or broader appeal of something done by say, Barks or Walt Kelly.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 26, 2021 11:55:33 GMT -5
As part of my reading for the 1985 Kirby Awards I read the Cloak & Dagger mini from 1983 that was inexplicably nominated for Best Finite Series. The inexplicable part being that, as far as I can tell, none of the four issue actually came out in 1984. I remember the book getting a bit of acclaim in the fan press at the time. I'm pretty sure I read this when it came out. I didn't buy it but my best friend, who also bought comics, did and I read his issues. I really only vaguely remembered it after almost forty years. I can see where this would have seemed like a big deal at the time. Forty years on, for me, it only holds up marginally well. The art, by Rick Leonardi & Terry Austin, is easily the strong point of the book. It has a modern feel that stands out among the books from the time. Not on par with the ground-breaking work we were seeing in some other books, but definitely interesting. The story though, just feels dated. It tries to walk a weird line between "social relevance" of the Denny O'Neil stripe and the social vengeance that we were starting to see from The Punisher at the time. The former felt dated by that time and moreso now and it isn't willing to go to the places that the latter would eventually go. At the time I'm sure it read better. And I recognize it's probably not fair to compare it to non-code books that were coming out of First or Fantagraphics or the like contemporaneously. And it's probably not fair to compare it to even some of the "Big Two" books that were garnering awards and nominations at the time. Mantlo was on Alan Moore...and never could be. I'm not trying to be overly critical. For a Marvel mini-series in 1983 this was pretty good and a reasonably serious departure for a Marvel super-hero book. But from 2021 it looks pretty dated.
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Feb 26, 2021 13:37:16 GMT -5
Murder by Remote Control (Janwillem van de Wetering & Paul Kirchner) Weak mystery, but I didn't buy this for the story. 8/10
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 26, 2021 15:28:45 GMT -5
As part of my reading for the 1985 Kirby Awards I read the Machine Man mini from 1984. This one was nominated for Best Finite Series. I remember this being pretty popular when it came out, but I know that I've never read it. Wow! I'm almost speechless at how poorly written that book was. I have to assume that it was nominated as a result of the art because this stinks. And the art is pretty darn good. One wouldn't think that Trimpe and Windsor-Smith would mesh that well, but it really works. And issue four, which is just Smith, is excellent. And, to give it its due, this was definite cyberpunk when cyberpunk was in its infancy. So that was cool. But, OH MAN is the writing BAD! So much exposition! Just all the excesses of comic book over-writing distilled in to one four-issue book. And it's not just the scripting. The plot is ridiculous at almost every turn. The entire thing starts off because the people running the biggest corporation in the world are apparently mouth-breathing morons. Which isn't surprising because I'm not convinced anyone in the book has more than a room-temperature IQ. It's just one dumb move after another, because apparently the plot requires them. And I didn't love the inclusion of the Neo-Newsboy Legion in a cyberpunk story. Pitiful. I have no idea why this was considered a highlight of 1984.
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 26, 2021 17:27:38 GMT -5
(...) I have no idea why this was considered a highlight of 1984. Pretty sure it was due to the art. As you noted, it's gorgeous - inversely proportional to the writing...
|
|