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Post by Hoosier X on May 7, 2023 17:11:48 GMT -5
I’m enjoying the Nemesis series. It does not look familiar to me at all. Not the plot. Not the set-ups. None of the supporting characters. None of the bad guys.
Maybe I flipped through it some of the time when I was buying The Brave and the Bold in the early 80s. But I sure don’t remember anything about it now.
I am up to TBATB #186, with The Hawkman, The Fadeaway Man and the Aparo art. I hadn’t originally intended to read the Batman team-ups, but I’m holding them in my hands and it’s hard to resist. There’s a few of these team-ups that I really love and I’ve read them a bunch of times, like next issue’s Metal Men appearance, and the two-part Rose and the Thorn story coming up. But most of these I haven’t read for a very long time. The Green Arrow team-up and this Hawkman team-up don’t seem at all familiar.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 7, 2023 18:04:44 GMT -5
Ugh. Conway. Why did they let him work at all!?! Some writers start out good and then have a steep decline that the never really recover from, I don't think Conway ever had that good start point
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Post by commond on May 7, 2023 19:03:41 GMT -5
Conway was a working pro. He wrote some good things, some excellent things, and a ton of crap. Just like his contemporaries. The last good comics I read by Conway, for the record, were Cinder & Ashe, The Man Thing story from Savage Tales #1 (which was a better direction for the character than the Gerber stuff, imho), and parts of Atari Force, which is a pretty good comic for being essentially a toy license book. He was a working writer with many highs and lows, but I don't think it's accurate to claim he never wrote anything worthwhile.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 7, 2023 19:13:52 GMT -5
The last good comics I read by Conway, The Man Thing story from Savage Tales #1 (which was a better direction for the character than the Gerber stuff, imho) We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, I love Gerber's Man-Thing. But the Savage Tales introduction to the character was good
I did kind of like Conway's early contributions to Killraven, but I think most of that was under Thomas' supervision
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 7, 2023 20:05:05 GMT -5
Conway was a working pro. He wrote some good things, some excellent things, and a ton of crap. Just like his contemporaries. The last good comics I read by Conway, for the record, were Cinder & Ashe, The Man Thing story from Savage Tales #1 (which was a better direction for the character than the Gerber stuff, imho), and parts of Atari Force, which is a pretty good comic for being essentially a toy license book. He was a working writer with many highs and lows, but I don't think it's accurate to claim he never wrote anything worthwhile. I liked his Thor stories too, even if they played it loose with continuity. They had just the right blend of mythology, SF and comic-book craziness.
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Post by berkley on May 7, 2023 22:08:35 GMT -5
It isn't that I think Conway was so very awful, just that he never rose above the ordinary for me. Even his best stuff, that I've seen, wasn't particularly original. Perhaps the death of Gwen Stacy was the closest he came, if that was him, but even that was just a heightening of the same sort of melodrama Stan Lee had already introduced. He was never less than competent but it was a huge let-down when he replaced someone like Englehart, as he did on the Avengers, because Englehart was one of the handful of writers who were bringing new ideas to the table as opposed to variations on the same tune we'd already heard a thousand times even then.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 8, 2023 3:44:38 GMT -5
It isn't that I think Conway was so very awful, just that he never rose above the ordinary for me. Even his best stuff, that I've seen, wasn't particularly original. Perhaps the death of Gwen Stacy was the closest he came, if that was him, but even that was just a heightening of the same sort of melodrama Stan Lee had already introduced. He was never less than competent but it was a huge let-down when he replaced someone like Englehart, as he did on the Avengers, because Englehart was one of the handful of writers who were bringing new ideas to the table as opposed to variations on the same tune we'd already heard a thousand times even then. He followed Engelhart on Avengers but it was temporary and had the feel of just fill in status. I thought he did fine work on many books in his career. He also hacked out crappy books just for a paycheck.
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Post by tonebone on May 8, 2023 7:14:55 GMT -5
Ugh. Conway. Why did they let him work at all!?! Some writers start out good and then have a steep decline that the never really recover from, I don't think Conway ever had that good start point I found Conway to be terribly inconsistent... he wrote some of the best and some of the absolute worst comics I have ever read, with a pretty unfavorable ratio. I liked his Spider-Man run (Death of Gwen Stacey, etc.), but everything else... woof. He has become extremely vocal and acerbic on twitter, etc. of late, which makes him less likeable to me.
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Post by commond on May 8, 2023 7:25:03 GMT -5
It isn't that I think Conway was so very awful, just that he never rose above the ordinary for me. Even his best stuff, that I've seen, wasn't particularly original. Perhaps the death of Gwen Stacy was the closest he came, if that was him, but even that was just a heightening of the same sort of melodrama Stan Lee had already introduced. He was never less than competent but it was a huge let-down when he replaced someone like Englehart, as he did on the Avengers, because Englehart was one of the handful of writers who were bringing new ideas to the table as opposed to variations on the same tune we'd already heard a thousand times even then. People forget that Conway was only 19 when he took over Amazing Spider-Man. In Conway's own words: "Precocity is a well-known curse; most of the pressure I felt as a younger writer was self-imposed. I wanted to be accepted by other writers and artists as an equal, which put me in some awkward situations — pretending to be more mature than I was, emotionally and professionally. As it happened, I was pretty good at faking a maturity I didn't have, which had advantages and, obviously, some disadvantages. I think people often forgot how young I was, and expected me to perform at a level that was actually beyond me. The result was, I was pretty stressed for most of my early career as a writer, and I often felt like I had no idea what I was doing —which was true. I wrote instinctively and from the gut; when those instincts were appropriate to the material I was writing – for example, when I was writing [The Amazing] Spider-Man — the results were something I was quite proud of, then and now. When my instincts were off, I didn't have the experience to either recognize it, or to compensate for it, with results that were more uneven."
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Post by MDG on May 8, 2023 9:19:42 GMT -5
DC Comics Presents began in 1978, right? I have the “Showcase” volume here. That’s ten or more great stories (in my opinion) right there, not to mention some World’s Finest Comics tales I am lucky to own. DCCP was the best Superman title of the mid- to late Bronze Age, hands down. I'm still working on reacquiring the complete run (I'm about 60% there).
Cei-U! I gots the team-up fever!
I wish I knew that before I sold off a bunch of them at a show--the guy who bought them never knew the title existed. he got 30-40 copies for a buck each.
I always felt Julie Schwartz was holding out for Superman and Action to remain "gateway" titles for new young readers. So, done-in-one, a lot of action, engaging scientific mysteries, etc. It may not have been what long term readers wanted, but enough to get folks interested.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on May 8, 2023 10:42:48 GMT -5
Just finished Conway's run on Daredevil (admittedly I skimmed a lot of the text) and it certainly didn't start out great, continuing a lackluster tradition for the character begun by Lee and Thomas. His habit of DD referring to himself in the third person as "Matthew" in thought balloons drove me nuts. Much like his later work on ASM, he goes for a major shakeup (not as extreme though) by bringing in Black Widow as a partner/love interest and jettisoning the previous supporting cast. This is also when he relocates the series to San Francisco. So kudos for changing things up. The stories don't really get that much better, with DD moving from one mystery villain to the next, a trope started by Lee early in the series. The resolution of the Mr. Klein mystery in particular, which crosses over with Iron Man, is just plain bizarre but gets bonus points for uniqueness I guess. All in all, a memorable run for the status quo shakeup but that's about it. The villains are mostly uninteresting. Widow as drawn by Gene Colon is gorgeous though. Conway was super young when he wrote this, so I can't be too harsh on him. I think I preferred this run to Thomas' and maybe 50% of Lee's time on the book, which kinda tells you how consistently mediocre 60s/early 70s DD was
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Post by Ozymandias on May 8, 2023 14:16:01 GMT -5
Ugh. Conway. Why did they let him work at all!?! Some writers start out good and then have a steep decline that the never really recover from, I don't think Conway ever had that good start point He had his moment under the sun writing off the character he hated. That's it.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 8, 2023 15:37:00 GMT -5
Amen. I could, save, I don't know, ten Superman stories from the 70s? Even less. I really like the Bronze Age Superman stories. They were usually done in one and whenever Supes showed up, someone was getting their @$$ kicked. I agree. Perhaps 70's Superman is an acquired taste, but I have acquired a taste for it. It's some good, goofy reliable fun. Sort of like comfort food. Also, like you, I love the fact that they're one and done. I can grab and random 70's Superman title I see and feel pretty confident that it's not going to be continued, making me feel like I have to go out and get the next issue.
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Post by badwolf on May 8, 2023 15:50:59 GMT -5
Conway's JLA was fabulous. And his ASM was good until he decided to unnecessarily revive the clone saga.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 8, 2023 15:53:43 GMT -5
Revive? There was no clone saga before he concocted it.
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