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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 13, 2023 8:10:25 GMT -5
I think it that case someone pointed out 'uhhhh..how can Magneto lose his grip from a metal ship?' And they decided to address it. Very likely. In this particular case, however, I think it would have been better to leave things unexplained and let readers figure it out. The mention of an ad hoc ship made of non-metallic materials (made just to prove it could be done to boot!) is a bit ridiculous and doesn't explain why Magneto doesn't gently levitate away (as he's done on many other occasions) instead of just falling. Had I seen that scene without explanation as a kid, and had I even noticed that Mags should not be beaten so easily, I'd have assumed that he was simply tired of the recent battle and did not manage to summon enough concentration to use his powers before hitting the ground. The ship seems to be 20 m above the rocks at best, so he'd go splat in about 2 seconds. I’m gonna go off on a tangent, you never see any character just get tired. Losing because your exhausted , I’m not sure if I’ve seen it in a comic. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 13, 2023 8:53:33 GMT -5
In Dragon Ball #240, Vegeta is forced to retreat after having to fight a bunch of foes, who chip away at him cumulatively.  |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 13, 2023 10:23:39 GMT -5
In Dragon Ball #240, Vegeta is forced to retreat after having to fight a bunch of foes, who chip away at him cumulatively. Vegeta? He must make a mean soup... |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 13, 2023 10:39:51 GMT -5
Let's just say he's mean.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2023 17:21:39 GMT -5
Very likely. In this particular case, however, I think it would have been better to leave things unexplained and let readers figure it out. The mention of an ad hoc ship made of non-metallic materials (made just to prove it could be done to boot!) is a bit ridiculous and doesn't explain why Magneto doesn't gently levitate away (as he's done on many other occasions) instead of just falling. Had I seen that scene without explanation as a kid, and had I even noticed that Mags should not be beaten so easily, I'd have assumed that he was simply tired of the recent battle and did not manage to summon enough concentration to use his powers before hitting the ground. The ship seems to be 20 m above the rocks at best, so he'd go splat in about 2 seconds. I’m gonna go off on a tangent, you never see any character just get tired. Losing because your exhausted , I’m not sure if I’ve seen it in a comic. Off the top of my head I guess Incredible Hulk #350 qualifies. The Hulk exhausts The Thing by using gorilla warstyle tactics. Hit and run and hit and run again and again leaving The Thing to continously having to run and catch up to The Hulk. By the end he's exhausted and gets knocked down by one punch I believe. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2023 1:27:28 GMT -5
I’m gonna go off on a tangent, you never see any character just get tired. Losing because your exhausted , I’m not sure if I’ve seen it in a comic. Spider-Man has had to retreat from a villain due to fatigue a number of times. Not sure he's ever actually lost a fight due to being tired, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it likely has happened, even if he eventually returned to kick said villain's butt. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 14, 2023 4:49:34 GMT -5
I’m gonna go off on a tangent, you never see any character just get tired. Losing because your exhausted , I’m not sure if I’ve seen it in a comic. Spider-Man has had to retreat from a villain due to fatigue a number of times. Not sure he's ever actually lost a fight due to being tired, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it likely has happened, even if he eventually returned to kick said villain's butt. I’m no Spider-man expert but he as sick a few times with the flu and retreated because of it. I guess I’m wondering if he just got plain tired of throwing punches the way a pro boxer might experience. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,190
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2023 6:12:24 GMT -5
Spider-Man has had to retreat from a villain due to fatigue a number of times. Not sure he's ever actually lost a fight due to being tired, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it likely has happened, even if he eventually returned to kick said villain's butt. I’m no Spider-man expert but he as sick a few times with the flu and retreated because of it. I guess I’m wondering if he just got plain tired of throwing punches the way a pro boxer might experience. Yes, he has. I can remember a specific instance when he was fighting Morlun for the first time, during J. Michael Straczyski's run in the early 2000s, where he had to retreat from the sheer fatigue of throwing punches at the villain and getting punched himself. He retreated and worked out a smarter, scientific means of defeating Morlun. I'm sure its happened at other times too. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 14, 2023 12:34:52 GMT -5
And now finished up Batman Dailies: 1944-1945 the second book collecting the 40's comic strips. This one shows pretty clearly why the strip never really found an audience and just kind of slipped away. Leaving aside that McClure was a weak syndicate by the mid-40s (it was), they just never capitalized on what potentially could have made the strip stand out. There are no more super-villains (the Joker appeared in a very early storyline in 1943). There is one entire storyline where neither Batman nor Robin appear, it's just Bruce Wayne doing a private detective kind of thing. And there's another storyline where Batman and Robin appear in maybe 1/3 of the strips. This is simply not the way to stand out among a plethora of other adventure strips that are just...better.  |
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Post by commond on Jul 14, 2023 17:56:51 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, I read Fantastic Four #102, which was the last issue Kirby handed in before he quit, and Fantastic Four #103-104, which were penciled by John Romita. According to interviews, the Marvel Bullpen went through the entire gamut of emotions when Kirby quit with some Bullpenners convinced that they couldn't continue the Fantastic Four without Jack. Those emotions eventually turned into defiance and a batten down the hatches approach to continuing with the title. Romita has openly said that he tried to draw in the style of Kirby to make the transition appear seamless. That proved impossible, as you can no doubt imagine. It's difficult to compare the issues story-wise as Kirby handed in the first chapter of a three part story, but you can clearly see a difference in the layouts. Kirby uses far less panels and even draws a awesome looking Namor splash page/pin up, whereas Romita uses far more panels and his two issues are tightly plotted and feature far more dialogue than the Kirby issue. The impression I received was that Stan was far more hands on with the Romita issues given the circumstances. I didn't notice a discernable drop off in quality. If I'd been reading the book as a kid in 1970, I would have kept reading the Romita issues. According to the artist, it was an incredibly stressful experience, but I think he did the best he could under the circumstances. The story pales in comparison to the prime Kirby/Lee years, but Jack had been mailing it for a while before he quit. It's not bad, it's just kind of generic. It's always weird for me to see Magneto as a one dimensional villain, and Namor often comes across as pompous in the Silver Age. It's worth noting that the story ends with a classic Stan-ism about how humans have landed on the moon but still can't achieve peace on Earth. Interesting to see Nixon make an appearance as well, and immediately clash with Reed.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 16, 2023 21:10:58 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #231-#235
So after not really connecting with Stan & Jack's tenure on the book (got to about issue #60. Didn't hate it, thought it was fun for what as a compass point to what feats of greatness were in store of Marvel), I decided to try Byrne's take. Kind of like what Simonson would do for Thor, Byrne just really hit the nail on the head with the innerpersonal drama and action that made the book a cornerstone for some many years
#234 "The Man With The Power" is a book that I feel like Stan and Jack could have very well wrote, kind of like an FF take on "Just A Guy Named Joe", but #236 (the issue I'm reading right now) is really something special
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Post by berkley on Jul 17, 2023 0:54:05 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, I read Fantastic Four #102, which was the last issue Kirby handed in before he quit, and Fantastic Four #103-104, which were penciled by John Romita. According to interviews, the Marvel Bullpen went through the entire gamut of emotions when Kirby quit with some Bullpenners convinced that they couldn't continue the Fantastic Four without Jack. Those emotions eventually turned into defiance and a batten down the hatches approach to continuing with the title. Romita has openly said that he tried to draw in the style of Kirby to make the transition appear seamless. That proved impossible, as you can no doubt imagine. It's difficult to compare the issues story-wise as Kirby handed in the first chapter of a three part story, but you can clearly see a difference in the layouts. Kirby uses far less panels and even draws a awesome looking Namor splash page/pin up, whereas Romita uses far more panels and his two issues are tightly plotted and feature far more dialogue than the Kirby issue. The impression I received was that Stan was far more hands on with the Romita issues given the circumstances. I didn't notice a discernable drop off in quality. If I'd been reading the book as a kid in 1970, I would have kept reading the Romita issues. According to the artist, it was an incredibly stressful experience, but I think he did the best he could under the circumstances. The story pales in comparison to the prime Kirby/Lee years, but Jack had been mailing it for a while before he quit. It's not bad, it's just kind of generic. It's always weird for me to see Magneto as a one dimensional villain, and Namor often comes across as pompous in the Silver Age. It's worth noting that the story ends with a classic Stan-ism about how humans have landed on the moon but still can't achieve peace on Earth. Interesting to see Nixon make an appearance as well, and immediately clash with Reed.
I did read FF#102 when it came out and I remember liking it a lot, as well as the next several issues up to around #118, which was I think the last FF comic I read for a few years (only because I got out of comics altogether, not because I thought the series had taken a downturn). According to Mike's Newsstand, #102 came out in June 1970, so I would have been 8 years old. Same with the immediate post-Kirby Thor issues, I liked those too as a kid and I thing I will still like them when I go back and read them, if I ever get around to it.
I often compare those first few post-Kirby years on the FF and Thor to the first two or three post-Peter Gabriel Genesis albums, when the band continued to produce excellent music very much in the style of the Gabriel-era Genesis. But in both cases, it could be sustained only for a limited period of time without the vital creative force that had driven the original. And in hindsight, even at its best it was not much more than a very good imitation of that original.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 17, 2023 4:53:02 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, I read Fantastic Four #102, which was the last issue Kirby handed in before he quit, and Fantastic Four #103-104, which were penciled by John Romita. According to interviews, the Marvel Bullpen went through the entire gamut of emotions when Kirby quit with some Bullpenners convinced that they couldn't continue the Fantastic Four without Jack. Those emotions eventually turned into defiance and a batten down the hatches approach to continuing with the title. Romita has openly said that he tried to draw in the style of Kirby to make the transition appear seamless. That proved impossible, as you can no doubt imagine. It's difficult to compare the issues story-wise as Kirby handed in the first chapter of a three part story, but you can clearly see a difference in the layouts. Kirby uses far less panels and even draws a awesome looking Namor splash page/pin up, whereas Romita uses far more panels and his two issues are tightly plotted and feature far more dialogue than the Kirby issue. The impression I received was that Stan was far more hands on with the Romita issues given the circumstances. I didn't notice a discernable drop off in quality. If I'd been reading the book as a kid in 1970, I would have kept reading the Romita issues. According to the artist, it was an incredibly stressful experience, but I think he did the best he could under the circumstances. The story pales in comparison to the prime Kirby/Lee years, but Jack had been mailing it for a while before he quit. It's not bad, it's just kind of generic. It's always weird for me to see Magneto as a one dimensional villain, and Namor often comes across as pompous in the Silver Age. It's worth noting that the story ends with a classic Stan-ism about how humans have landed on the moon but still can't achieve peace on Earth. Interesting to see Nixon make an appearance as well, and immediately clash with Reed.
I did read FF#102 when it came out and I remember liking it a lot, as well as the next several issues up to around #118, which was I think the last FF comic I read for a few years (only because I got out of comics altogether, not because I thought the series had taken a downturn). According to Mike's Newsstand, #102 came out in June 1970, so I would have been 8 years old. Same with the immediate post-Kirby Thor issues, I liked those too as a kid and I thing I will still like them when I go back and read them, if I ever get around to it.
I often compare those first few post-Kirby years on the FF and Thor to the first two or three post-Peter Gabriel Genesis albums, when the band continued to produce excellent music very much in the style of the Gabriel-era Genesis. But in both cases, it could be sustained only for a limited period of time without the vital creative force that had driven the original. And in hindsight, even at its best it was not much more than a very good imitation of that original.
I've told the story a few times about 102 being the first comic that was bought for me. The Romita issues were terrific and I wish he had stayed on longer. Buscema followed him and carried on the flagship title to great times. |
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Post by commond on Jul 18, 2023 19:36:21 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #105-106 concludes Romita's caretaker stint on the book. According to Romita, he sweat through the four issues he penciled, desperately trying to emulate Jack's style. He must have been relieved when Buscema took over. Romita gets flak for his pencils not being Kirby-esque, but he's not the type of artist who can draw crazy machinery, and there's no way that anyone could emulate the panel layouts that sprang from Jack's imagination. Romita's pencils are tight and heavily focused on storytelling. The script is detailed, but there aren't a lot of dynamic looking panels. The "villain" in the second story isn't a heavy hitter, and Romita doesn't get a lot to work with in terms of producing a story worthy of the World's Greatest Comic Magazine. The women look good, though. Crystal gets written out of the series quick as a flash. I wonder whose decision that was. Reed is constantly shouting at everyone. I can't understand how such an incredible genius as Reed can have these sudden emotional outbursts. It makes it seem like he's frustrated by how stupid his wife, brother-in-law, and best friend are. He even tears strips off a fellow scientist in issue #106. World's biggest asshole? Stan chucks in an obligatory anti-war message without exploring the theme too much beyond a couple of lines about powerful weapons not being the solution to ending wars. So, where are we at? The book hasn't nose-dived since Jack left, but the artist is under immense pressure and there's no evidence that Stan can come up with new characters going forward. It will be very interesting to see how Lee handles the book the rest of the way.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 19, 2023 8:26:41 GMT -5
Ghost in the ShellMasamune Shirow, 1995 (eng. translation by Frederik Schoot and Toren Smith)  Finally got around to reading this after being aware of it for years. And… it’s pretty good. For those who may not be familiar, Ghost in the Shell is set in Japan in what is now the near future, i.e., the first episode takes place in 2029. It follows the missions of Public Security Section 9, a specialized counter-cyperterror unit headed by Chief Daisuke Aramaki. The main character is one of S9’s top operatives, Major Motoko Kusanagi (pictured on the cover), who otherwise has a fully prosthetic body and even a ‘cyberbrain’ – something apparently necessitated by a horrible accident she suffered as a child. This is the meaning of the title, by the way, as the word ‘ghost’ is used here in the sense of soul, i.e., the human ghost inside the cybernetic parts. And most of the stories deal with some form of hacking of cyberbrains, as well as the uses and misuses and perils of AI, etc. I can see why this became so popular when it was first published (it was launched in serialized form in Japan beginning in 1989), as it’s a very slick, cyberpunk setting, with lots of graphic violence and, well, a fair bit of cheesecake:  However, I have to say that the art as a whole is really nice. Shirow not only does great figure work and action scenes, as he’s also adept at drawing intricate futuristic cityscapes or wonderful urban scenes like this one:  (The bulk of these stories, by the way, are in b&w, although the first few pages of each chapter/episode are in color. I think this had something to do with the way they were printed in the original Japanese manga magazines.)
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