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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 23, 2023 10:26:21 GMT -5
I'll have to look up what became of them in other books. Aside from a one-panel cameo in Crisis On Infnite Earths, the Forever People didn't reappear until the 1988 limited series by J.M. DeMatteis and Paris Cullen. I know I read it back in the day (I borrowed someone else's set) but I'll be darned if I remember anything about it other than liking the art.
Cei-U! I summon the memory lapse!
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 23, 2023 11:46:02 GMT -5
I'll have to look up what became of them in other books. Aside from a one-panel cameo in Crisis On Infnite Earths, the Forever People didn't reappear until the 1988 limited series by J.M. DeMatteis and Paris Cullen. I know I read it back in the day (I borrowed someone else's set) but I'll be darned if I remember anything about it other than liking the art.
Cei-U! I summon the memory lapse!
I might read that, thanks. I also see that Keith Giffen and Dan DiDio did a FP book a few years ago. If it is anywhere as good as their OMAC book, I will be reading it. |
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Post by commond on Jul 23, 2023 17:39:39 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #110-112 are pretty good. Reed is stuck in the Negative Zone at the beginning of issue #110, having sacrificed himself to allow Johnny and Ben to escape. He ends up escaping with a little help from his teammates, and Agatha Harkness, who finally reveals that she's a witch. Strangely, Reed and Sue barely react to the fact that their child's nanny is a witch. If there's been a major flaw in Stan's scripting thus far it's a lack of attention to detail. Ben starts acting like a dick again while Reed is fighting for his life in the Negative Zone after having put that plot point on the back burner during the past few issues. That leads to a panel where Sue slaps Ben, which is about as much backbone as Sue has shown in these Bronze Age issues. She gets to use her powers a bit during these issues, which is a welcome respite from her constant fretting. The plot contrivance of her constantly having to fly between the Baxter Building and Agatha's creepy house to spend time with Franklin is annoying. Franklin is a problem in general, but the situation is a fairly realistic depiction of what it would be like for superheroes to have children, especially celebrity types like the Fantastic Four. Stan keeps hinting that Franklin has powers of their own, though they're pretty boring powers thus far. Ben turns heel and goes on a rampage. This escalates quickly and within a few pages, J. Jonah Jameson is leading a witch hunt against the Fantastic Four, there are protesters outside the Baxter Building, and Reed has a heated confrontation with his landlord, who he calls a human parasite. The Hulk is shoehorned into the plot in the weakest way imaginable, and there's a classic Thing vs. Hulk fight in issue #112. Buscema tries his damnedest to draw a worthy Thing/Hulk fight, but it pales in comparison to Kirby's layouts. Reed and Johnny bicker over the best way to help Ben. Johnny keeps calling Reed old. Reed is a condescending prick. The fighting gets a bit old after a while. One thing Stan is great at is the single panel cliffhangers. They're fantastic. Ben is dead at the end of issue #112 and it's all Reed's fault. If that doesn't get you to pick up next month's issue, I don't know what will. Of course that implies that the Hulk killed Ben, which was never gonna happen, but the final panel was dope.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 23, 2023 18:19:39 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Reed and Sue already knew Agatha was a witch and chose her as Franklin's nanny for precisely that reason IF I'm remembering FF #94, Aggie's debut, correctly.
Cei-U!
I summon the bewitching babysitter!
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Post by commond on Jul 23, 2023 18:42:36 GMT -5
IIRC, they chose Agatha because she was a world-famous governess. The reader sees Agatha use her powers to battle the Frightful Four, but the Fantastic Four are oblivious to the fact other than Ben who suspects she might be a witch and is spooked. Up until the reveal in issue #110 where she uses her magic to help Reed escape from the Negative Zone, Sue will occasionally have thoughts such as, "there's something odd at about that woman," but while they drop hints that Agatha is a witch and is aware of Franklin's powers, Reed and Sue don't appear to have any clue. Later, Agatha lets Sue use her crystal ball to view what is happening in New York while she's visiting Franklin, and the whole Franklin's nanny is a witch thing is water off a duck's back. Stan may address it later on. He had this habit of not letting subplots get in the way of whatever the main story was that issue. Either that or he needed an editor.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 23, 2023 19:29:47 GMT -5
Stan ... had this habit of not letting subplots get in the way of whatever the main story was that issue. Either that or he needed an editor. Stan and every other writer at Marvel in the '70s (except possibly Archie Goodwin).
Cei-U! I summon the one-man no-prize generator!
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 23, 2023 21:44:34 GMT -5
I started reading Batman and the Outsiders by Mike W. Barr a while ago. I was hoping the series would be of similar calibre to the New Teen Titans. Nope.
I liked Aparo's art, and I liked Halo. There, some positives. The rest did nothing for me. The other characters were completely uninteresting and the plots pedestrian. I managed to get through the first trade collecting the run, but skimmed through the rest. The final issue where Batman leaves the team ended the run on a whimper.
And I'm gonna say it. Batman doesn't belong in the greater DC Universe. He just doesn't mesh with characters like Geo-Force and Metamorpho and Halo and Black Lightning. This comic dispelled any doubt I had of that.
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Post by commond on Jul 24, 2023 19:16:51 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #113-115 introduces what I'm assuming is the first original Fantastic Four villain created after Kirby left, the Over-Mind. Off the top of my head, I'm only familiar with the Over-Mind from J. M. DeMatteis using him in his Defenders run, but he certainly looks the part as far as cosmic villains go. The design is similar to something Kirby might have come up with, although Jack would have given him more grotesque features. He gets introduced in fairly weak "the Over-Mind is coming!" fashion with a guest spot by The Watcher and a warning from Agatha Harkness, however it seems he may be behind the chaos that has been happening over the past few issues, both internally within the team and externally with the public turning against them. Long term plotting from Stan? We shall see.
Ben's not really dead, it's just hard to pick up a heartbeat beneath that orange rock. Reed is a giant prick towards everyone, but manages to save Ben's life. Ben smashes the machine that changed him back to his human form and declares that the Ever-Lovin' Blue-eyed Thing is back and happy to stay in that form. That was easily resolved. Johnny apologizes for the things he said to Reed, and Reed has the audacity to praise Johnny for apologizing like a man. When do you ever apologize, Reed? It's a wonder your teammates didn't up and leave a long time ago. A few panels later, Johnny has a meltdown over Crystal and almost kills himself by jumping out the window before flaming on (stupid.) Sue agonizes over what's happening to the team, and it seems like it's a deliberate plot point. It's irritating, but I do like the way every time they fight there's a kernel of truth in what they're saying. They might be a family, but they're a hugely dysfunctional one. The Fantastic Four end up being arrested and Reed bails them out.
The Over-Mind walks around in his space duds and draws too much attention so he disguises himself in a ridiculous vest outfit that does nothing to disguises the fact that he's over 7 feet tall. That was a fail by Buscema. He has a short skirmish with the team and decides their powers are nothing to worry about and erases their memories of the encounter. Issue #115 is a bit of a doozy. By this stage, the reader isn't really sure who this Over-Mind dude is other than he's a threat to the entire universe, but to give him a backstory, Stan does this ridiculous trick of having Agatha Harkness help the FF communicate with the Watcher, who tells them the Over-Mind's origin story. Why he couldn't have done that a few issues ago when he popped up to warn them of his coming is beyond me. The origin itself is fairly good. It involves an aggressive race of aliens named The Eternals (!!!) who are basically a substitute for the Roman Empire, and the Over-Mind is a gladiator turned all-powerful villain. It's very Fantastic Four-esque. Interestingly, it's scripted by Archie Goodwin, and plotted by Stan Lee, which adds fuel to the fire that Stan wasn't the driving force beyond a lot of these science fiction storylines.
Once that's done, Reed suddenly turns bad without any warning (other than the fact that he's been even more of a prick than usual the past few issues.) Looks like the Over-Mind has got him too. I guess it will be up to the other dumbasses on the team to save the day. The cover for the next issue has Dr. Doom replacing Reed on the team, which is pretty wild. I can only imagine there were a fair number of kids still buying the FF off the racks post-Kirby, the same way I keep reading the X-Men after Claremont left. I mean, what kid could resist a cover like that?
I forgot to mention that when Reed was in the Negative Zone, it appeared that Marvel used some of Kirby's old collage work for the backgrounds. Another example of how Jack's presence is still being felt.
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Post by commond on Jul 24, 2023 19:20:12 GMT -5
I started reading Batman and the Outsiders by Mike W. Barr a while ago. I was hoping the series would be of similar calibre to the New Teen Titans. Nope. I liked Aparo's art, and I liked Halo. There, some positives. The rest did nothing for me. The other characters were completely uninteresting and the plots pedestrian. I managed to get through the first trade collecting the run, but skimmed through the rest. The final issue where Batman leaves the team ended the run on a whimper. And I'm gonna say it. Batman doesn't belong in the greater DC Universe. He just doesn't mesh with characters like Geo-Force and Metamorpho and Halo and Black Lightning. This comic dispelled any doubt I had of that. I had the exact same reaction as you. I was really hoping for someone with the same dynamics as New Teen Titans or Legion of Super-Heroes, but it was mediocre as hell. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 25, 2023 8:18:36 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #113-115 introduces what I'm assuming is the first original Fantastic Four villain created after Kirby left, the Over-Mind. Off the top of my head, I'm only familiar with the Over-Mind from J. M. DeMatteis using him in his Defenders run, but he certainly looks the part as far as cosmic villains go. The design is similar to something Kirby might have come up with, although Jack would have given him more grotesque features. He gets introduced in fairly weak "the Over-Mind is coming!" fashion with a guest spot by The Watcher and a warning from Agatha Harkness, however it seems he may be behind the chaos that has been happening over the past few issues, both internally within the team and externally with the public turning against them. Long term plotting from Stan? We shall see. The Overmind story and the issues that followed were my sweet spot into the FF world. Doom leading the team was mind blowing and the first of its kind. |
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Post by commond on Jul 25, 2023 19:36:23 GMT -5
Archie Goodwin takes over the writing duties with Fantastic Four #116 after scripting the previous issue. I believe this was a temporary gig while Stan was busy schmoozing in Hollywood. As you can imagine, the plotting is tighter with Archie on deck but the dialogue lacks pizzazz. I don't know if Buscema was working from a full script, but the art for issue #116 is the best work he's delivered since taking over from Romita. The battle between Over-Mind and the Fantastic Four is probably the best fight scene since Kirby left, and Over-Mind comes across a truly worthy FF opponent. A large part of the appeal is witnessing Doom lead the FF in Reed's place. Archie doesn't have a lot of panels to work with when roping Doom into the story, and has to rush things a bit, but it's tidy enough that a kid wouldn't question the logic behind it. Once again, Agatha Harkness steps in and intervenes. That seems to be the go-to solution when the heroes are at a loss. They ought to make her a member of the team! I could just imagine her rocking her unstable molecules outfit. She'd probably add more to the team than Sue does.
Doom vs the Over-Mind is badass. Finally, a fight scene worth of the World's Greatest Comic Magazine. It's similar to the battle Doom had with the Beyonder in Secret Wars, or that badass fight he has with Terrax during Byrne's run. Reed turning heel in the previous issue was supposedly a ruse, but he can't stop the Over-Mind from taking over his mind and tries to kill Sue. Eventually, he's able to fight off the Over-Mind's control by remembering he has a wife and child, but the question I have is why does Franklin's hair keep changing color? Is it blond or brown? You tell me, Marvel colorists. New York is raging with hatred, and people are brawling with each other in the streets. Doom falls in battle. The gizmo that was meant to stop the Over-Mind is destroyed. The end of the world is nigh. Franklin's hair keeps changing color. And then Archie pulls out the most brazen piece of dues ex machina you'll see in a Bronze Age book. It works in the sense that it's a Bronze Age comic for 12 year olds, but it's absolutely ridiculous. The saving grace is that Doom cuts an awesome promo as he staggers off. The FF are kind of bummed that that they were useless in the fight, but the Watcher pops out of nowhere and gives them a pep talk All's well that ends well.
Joking aside, it's a great issue.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 26, 2023 2:24:23 GMT -5
I don't know if Buscema was working from a full script, but the art for issue #116 is the best work he's delivered since taking over from Romita. Goodwin not only worked full script but his scripts were done as rough layouts (from which Buscema, who didn't like working full script, was free to deviate). I'm not surprised the end result was a notch above the usual.
Cei-U! I summon the lowdown!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 26, 2023 5:19:09 GMT -5
Archie Goodwin takes over the writing duties with Fantastic Four #116 after scripting the previous issue. I believe this was a temporary gig while Stan was busy schmoozing in Hollywood. As you can imagine, the plotting is tighter with Archie on deck but the dialogue lacks pizzazz. I don't know if Buscema was working from a full script, but the art for issue #116 is the best work he's delivered since taking over from Romita. The battle between Over-Mind and the Fantastic Four is probably the best fight scene since Kirby left, and Over-Mind comes across a truly worthy FF opponent. A large part of the appeal is witnessing Doom lead the FF in Reed's place. Archie doesn't have a lot of panels to work with when roping Doom into the story, and has to rush things a bit, but it's tidy enough that a kid wouldn't question the logic behind it. Once again, Agatha Harkness steps in and intervenes. That seems to be the go-to solution when the heroes are at a loss. They ought to make her a member of the team! I could just imagine her rocking her unstable molecules outfit. She'd probably add more to the team than Sue does. Doom vs the Over-Mind is badass. Finally, a fight scene worth of the World's Greatest Comic Magazine. It's similar to the battle Doom had with the Beyonder in Secret Wars, or that badass fight he has with Terrax during Byrne's run. Reed turning heel in the previous issue was supposedly a ruse, but he can't stop the Over-Mind from taking over his mind and tries to kill Sue. Eventually, he's able to fight off the Over-Mind's control by remembering he has a wife and child, but the question I have is why does Franklin's hair keep changing color? Is it blond or brown? You tell me, Marvel colorists. New York is raging with hatred, and people are brawling with each other in the streets. Doom falls in battle. The gizmo that was meant to stop the Over-Mind is destroyed. The end of the world is nigh. Franklin's hair keeps changing color. And then Archie pulls out the most brazen piece of dues ex machina you'll see in a Bronze Age book. It works in the sense that it's a Bronze Age comic for 12 year olds, but it's absolutely ridiculous. The saving grace is that Doom cuts an awesome promo as he staggers off. The FF are kind of bummed that that they were useless in the fight, but the Watcher pops out of nowhere and gives them a pep talk All's well that ends well. Joking aside, it's a great issue. It might be a dues ex machina but it's explained that what the team did, extended the fight enough for the Stranger to track down the Overmind. It works for me. Or maybe I was 12 around the time, and it did its job.  |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 26, 2023 11:59:55 GMT -5
Ghost in the Shell 1.5: Human-Error ProcessorMasamune Shirow, 2007 (eng. translation by Frederik Schoot)  This volume is number ‘1.5’ because it’s a collection of four stories that were originally released as separate installments throughout the 1990s, between the end of the first set of stories (collected in the book I reviewed above) and what’s considered vol. 2 of Ghost in the Shell. They were only collected and published in Japan in 2003. The focus of the stories in this book is more on Chief Aramaki and a few key agents in Section 9 – Major Kusanagi, who is the central character in all of the stories in v1, only appears in the second story as a supporting character (that has to do with the fact that she underwent a big change toward the end of the first volume, but I won’t spoil anything here). I have to say that I found the stories in this one a step down from the earlier volume; the cases just weren’t as interesting – they all seemed to involve interagency conflicts, or rather, shady or illegal activities by agencies other than Section 9. There are a lot of sequences like this one:  That is, Aramaki having very serious discussions with other agency heads. Or just a lot of exposition, usually two or more agents talking about a case at the end – because the story was done in such a way that it necessitated explanations. Quite frankly, I found this whole volume a bit boring more than anything else, nice art notwithstanding.
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Post by commond on Jul 26, 2023 19:22:13 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #117-118 are a letdown. Hot-head Johnny has become love sick again. It's hard to say who the most annoying member of the Fantastic Four is. I'm generally sympathetic towards Sue since she has to put up with three idiot males, but even Sue can be prone to histrionics when Stan is scripting her. It's probably a three way tie for first, but tormented Johnny Storm is really frigging annoying. Archie's story is continuity heavy as it ties into an issue of Namor and references a couple of other stories. It turns out that Crystal and Lockjaw never made it to the Great Refuge. Instead, Lockjaw transported Crystal to a distant future where humanity has been wiped out. There she encounters the Master of Alchemy, Diablo, who had been banished there by Dr. Doom. Diablo uses one of his potions to take control of Crystal and Lockjaw so that he can exact his revenge against Doom. Little does he know that Doom is busy licking his wounds after his battle with the Over-Mind, unless that was a Doom-bot, in which case all bets are off. Diablo plans to overthrow the dictatorship of a South American country so that he can steal the country's rare chemicals and become all-powerful. He convinces the locals that Crystal is the Mayan Goddess, Ixchel, who has returned to free them from tyranny. I
t's a flimsy plot that can barely sustain an issue and a half. I'm not joking. The plot is so thin that they have to run a backup story in issue #118. Johnny discovers that Crystal is in South America thanks to, you guessed it, Agatha Harkness and her crystal ball. I do like the fact that Ben is still spooked by Agatha's house and her cat, Ebony. It also amuses me that Johnny doesn't give a frig about other people's problems such as Maximus the Mad having seized control of the Inhumans' kingdom or the South American dictator launching an air strike against the peasant uprising. No sir, all that matters to our Johnny is that he can neck with Crystal for five seconds. I guess no one ever accused Johnny Storm of being the most mature hero around. The FF have seemingly accepted Agatha at face value. If Reed and Sue discussed whether it's appropriate for a centuries old witch to be taking care of their son then it happened off panel. Issue #118 has a brief fight between Crystal and Johnny after Johnny tries to plant one on her. The cover teases a larger fight between Crystal and the FF, but to be honest, after Ben and then Reed, it's become a tired trope. The most fun part of the issue is Ben scrapping with Lockjaw. Archie has been using Ben for comic relief, but things get a little trippy in the backup story. Lockjaw and Ben take a little side trip to an alternate Earth where Ben Grimm became Mr. Fantastic and married Sue, and Reed became the Thing and turned into a recluse. It's the type of sci-fi that's right up Archie's alley, and probably would have made for a more interesting story than the Diablo mess. It does raise the question of whether Ben still has a thing for Sue. It wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the topics they argued about in the bullpen breakroom.
It's interesting that even though Stan didn't write these stories, he gets first billing as editor. I'm sure that 90% of kids glossed over the details and simply thought this was another Stan Lee story. Archie is far more detailed than Stan, and very much a Bronze Age style writer, he just didn't have a great story idea for these fill-in issues. Even the flow of the story is pensive. The art is fairly strong, though, and it seems that Buscema is coming into his own even if his work here isn't as good as it was on The Avengers. Roy Thomas fills in next issue and then Stan is back for a final run.
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