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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 27, 2023 0:52:09 GMT -5
FF #117-118 are structured the way they are because the story was meant to fit into the same larger 25-cent format as #116. This was Marvel's infamous bait-and-switch that finally let them edge ahead of DC in overall sales. The back-up story in #118 was thrown together virtually overnight to fill out #118's truncated page count (that's also why Sinnott doesn't ink it). It's kinda amazing it's as coherent as it is.
Cei-U!
I summon the cause-and-effect!
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 27, 2023 9:12:00 GMT -5
Moon Knight #5-#8 Got the second volume of the Moon Knight Epic Collection series yesterday. Usually I read the stories before I buy an epic collection so I know whether or not it's worth my time to buy them, but for some reason I didn't want to with Moench's Moon Knight Five was a really good issue that's told forwards and backwards about a group of men who go to a supposedly haunted house to collect some treasure. Thought that it was told in a really interesting and unique way Six was alright, basically Moon Knight and company go on a vacation to figure out what's going on in a small African village, turns out people are being abducted and turned into unwilling slaves to serve a witch doctor Seven and Eight  Moon Knight goes to Chicago and finds that somebody has laced the city's drinking water with a powerful hallucinogen. Also, Mark tells Marlene that he feels as if the werewolf blood inside him that he got from his fight with Jack Russell way back when is starting to wear off
btw, also LOVE the cover for Eight and love the fact that they made it the cover for the collection |
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Post by tonebone on Jul 27, 2023 12:38:30 GMT -5
I started reading Batman and the Outsiders by Mike W. Barr a while ago. I was hoping the series would be of similar calibre to the New Teen Titans. Nope. I liked Aparo's art, and I liked Halo. There, some positives. The rest did nothing for me. The other characters were completely uninteresting and the plots pedestrian. I managed to get through the first trade collecting the run, but skimmed through the rest. The final issue where Batman leaves the team ended the run on a whimper. And I'm gonna say it. Batman doesn't belong in the greater DC Universe. He just doesn't mesh with characters like Geo-Force and Metamorpho and Halo and Black Lightning. This comic dispelled any doubt I had of that. I had the exact same reaction as you. I was really hoping for someone with the same dynamics as New Teen Titans or Legion of Super-Heroes, but it was mediocre as hell. Yeah agree. I have a nostalgic love for it, but it really does deserve the "mediocre" description. The art keeps it afloat for most of it, but just barely. I don't agree completely that Batman doesn't belong in the wider DCU, but it has always been funny to me he leaves the League, saying he doesn't want to stand by and not interfere in the affairs of state around the world, but ends up steering the Outsiders in exactly that direction. It is also undermined by the fact that the first story arc deals with fictional countries, rulers, etc. |
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Post by commond on Jul 27, 2023 18:14:42 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #119 is a one shot story by Roy Thomas. I'm not sure how fondly it's remembered today, but it manages to pack a fair punch. It starts off weak with a squabble between Johnny and Ben, and Reed introducing a new invention of his, a robot named Auntie (AUtomatic Neuro-robot in charge of Tidying up with Increased Efficiency), but we do get a bit of continuity with Johnny still moping about Crystal and Reed revealing to Sue that he's working on a way to allow Crystal to live outside of the Great Refuge (like that's going to work.) The bulk of the story is a Johnny and Ben adventure where they travel to Rudyarda, a neighboring country of Wakanda known for its apartheid regime. Their mission is to recover a device called a Vibrotron, which augments the power of Vibranium, and discover what happened to T'Challa, who crossed the border to to retrieve the device himself, but hasn't been heard from since. There ends up being an obligatory fight scene with Klaw, but the purpose of the issue is Roy's commentary on apartheid. Ben and Johnny can't stomach the regime in Rudyarda and make several statements about it throughout the issue, including a definitive statement at the end when Ben destroys a segregated border gate. Not your typical issue of the FF. Stan often included social commentary in his scripting, but rarely based an entire issue around it. It's an incredibly wordy issue, but you get your money's worth with a Roy Thomas story. The reason that apartheid was topical was because it had escalated in South Africa with nonwhites no longer allowed to hold political office, and the country of Rhodesia had recently declared itself a Republic with a white government. Roy even manages to touch on the spate of plane hijacking that was occurring at the time when Ben and Johnny stop a hijacker from diverting their flight to Cuba. Ben does a couple of badass things in this issue -- first he contains the blast of the hijacker's grenade in his own hands, and then he crushes Klaw's soni-claw. One change that Roy made which didn't stick was T'Challa changing his name to The Black Leopard to distance himself from the Black Panther Party.
I'm not sure how I feel about the covers during this era. The solid borders (if you can call them that) seem ugly at times.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jul 27, 2023 18:28:25 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #119 is a one shot story by Roy Thomas. I'm not sure how fondly it's remembered today, but it manages to pack a fair punch. It starts off weak with a squabble between Johnny and Ben, and Reed introducing a new invention of his, a robot named Auntie (AUtomatic Neuro-robot in charge of Tidying up with Increased Efficiency), but we do get a bit of continuity with Johnny still moping about Crystal and Reed revealing to Sue that he's working on a way to allow Crystal to live outside of the Great Refuge (like that's going to work.) The bulk of the story is a Johnny and Ben adventure where they travel to Rudyarda, a neighboring country of Wakanda known for its apartheid regime. Their mission is to recover a device called a Vibrotron, which augments the power of Vibranium, and discover what happened to T'Challa, who crossed the border to to retrieve the device himself, but hasn't been heard from since. There ends up being an obligatory fight scene with Klaw, but the purpose of the issue is Roy's commentary on apartheid. Ben and Johnny can't stomach the regime in Rudyarda and make several statements about it throughout the issue, including a definitive statement at the end when Ben destroys a segregated border gate. Not your typical issue of the FF. Stan often included social commentary in his scripting, but rarely based an entire issue around it. It's an incredibly wordy issue, but you get your money's worth with a Roy Thomas story. The reason that apartheid was topical was because it had escalated in South Africa with nonwhites no longer allowed to hold political office, and the country of Rhodesia had recently declared itself a Republic with a white government. Roy even manages to touch on the spate of plane hijacking that was occurring at the time when Ben and Johnny stop a hijacker from diverting their flight to Cuba. Ben does a couple of badass things in this issue -- first he contains the blast of the hijacker's grenade in his own hands, and then he crushes Klaw's soni-claw. One change that Roy made which didn't stick was T'Challa changing his name to The Black Leopard to distance himself from the Black Panther Party. I'm not sure how I feel about the covers during this era. The solid borders (if you can call them that) seem ugly at times. 119 was maybe my favorite single ish when I did a 103 to 150-something read through a couple years ago. The Lee issues were not particularly memorable but i enjoyed the Galactus-Surfer storyline you are about to read. Interested what you think of it. Yeah, those bordered covers from 71-72 kinda give everything a samey look to it that I've never been enamored with. Guessing it didn't "get over" (shout out to all the wrestling thread folks) with the fans and that was why it was dropped |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 27, 2023 22:11:01 GMT -5
"Rudyarda" seems like a clear reference to Rudyard Kipling.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 27, 2023 23:58:17 GMT -5
Swamp Thing: The Bronze Age, Vol. 1 When I read the first story from House of Secrets, I was like "Swamp Thing's origin kinda sucks". Then I read Swamp Thing #1 and I was like, "I see what you did there." Overall, I liked it a whole lot more than I honestly expected to, but I was disappointed by the lack of a proper conclusion to Len Wein's run (yet another reason why I don't care much for corporate-owned comics anymore even when they're mostly good). I'm gonna skip ahead to the Alan Moore run at some point, but I just started reading Kirby's Fourth World run; I want to finish that and then check out Steve Gerber's Man-Thing run before I get there.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 28, 2023 7:31:56 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #119 is a one shot story by Roy Thomas. I'm not sure how fondly it's remembered today, but it manages to pack a fair punch. It starts off weak with a squabble between Johnny and Ben, and Reed introducing a new invention of his, a robot named Auntie (AUtomatic Neuro-robot in charge of Tidying up with Increased Efficiency), but we do get a bit of continuity with Johnny still moping about Crystal and Reed revealing to Sue that he's working on a way to allow Crystal to live outside of the Great Refuge (like that's going to work.) The bulk of the story is a Johnny and Ben adventure where they travel to Rudyarda, a neighboring country of Wakanda known for its apartheid regime. Their mission is to recover a device called a Vibrotron, which augments the power of Vibranium, and discover what happened to T'Challa, who crossed the border to to retrieve the device himself, but hasn't been heard from since. There ends up being an obligatory fight scene with Klaw, but the purpose of the issue is Roy's commentary on apartheid. Ben and Johnny can't stomach the regime in Rudyarda and make several statements about it throughout the issue, including a definitive statement at the end when Ben destroys a segregated border gate. Not your typical issue of the FF. Stan often included social commentary in his scripting, but rarely based an entire issue around it. It's an incredibly wordy issue, but you get your money's worth with a Roy Thomas story. The reason that apartheid was topical was because it had escalated in South Africa with nonwhites no longer allowed to hold political office, and the country of Rhodesia had recently declared itself a Republic with a white government. Roy even manages to touch on the spate of plane hijacking that was occurring at the time when Ben and Johnny stop a hijacker from diverting their flight to Cuba. Ben does a couple of badass things in this issue -- first he contains the blast of the hijacker's grenade in his own hands, and then he crushes Klaw's soni-claw. One change that Roy made which didn't stick was T'Challa changing his name to The Black Leopard to distance himself from the Black Panther Party. I'm not sure how I feel about the covers during this era. The solid borders (if you can call them that) seem ugly at times. FF #119 wasn't without its flaws, but I thought it was an enjoyable issue. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 28, 2023 8:00:03 GMT -5
I'm gonna skip ahead to the Alan Moore run at some point, but I just started reading Kirby's Fourth World run; I want to finish that and then check out Steve Gerber's Man-Thing run before I get there. Man-Thing is excellent, you won't be disappointed. It's the only other time that I've felt compelled to buy an Omnibus (mostly because it was cheaper than buying all three of the Complete Collection books, same with Howard. Though I am a little bit miffed that it doesn't include Gerber's Infernal Man-Thing) |
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Post by badwolf on Jul 28, 2023 8:03:09 GMT -5
btw, also LOVE the cover for Eight and love the fact that they made it the cover for the collection When my friends and I were making our own comics in grade school this cover was a huge influence on how I tried to draw and design my own covers. (I'm not remotely comparing myself to Bill S., just saying that I tried to emulate it in different ways.) |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 28, 2023 8:15:36 GMT -5
I'm gonna skip ahead to the Alan Moore run at some point, but I just started reading Kirby's Fourth World run; I want to finish that and then check out Steve Gerber's Man-Thing run before I get there. In your rush to get to Moore, don't skip the Martin Pasko-scripted issues of Saga of the Swamp Thing that immediately precede his run. They are also high quality comics, though they naturally suffer in comparison. But you can safely pass over everything that folliws Wein in the original series.
Cei-U! I summon the unjustly underappreciated Pasko Swampi!
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Post by tonebone on Jul 28, 2023 11:37:04 GMT -5
I'm gonna skip ahead to the Alan Moore run at some point, but I just started reading Kirby's Fourth World run; I want to finish that and then check out Steve Gerber's Man-Thing run before I get there. In your rush to get to Moore, don't skip the Martin Pasko-scripted issues of Saga of the Swamp Thing that immediately precede his run. They are also high quality comics, though they naturally suffer in comparison. But you can safely pass over everything that folliws Wein in the original series.
Cei-U! I summon the unjustly underappreciated Pasko Swampi!
You may, however, skip the later V1 issues that tried really hard to swerve Swampy into Super-Hero territory. Some of the art is still nice, tho. |
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Post by commond on Jul 28, 2023 18:00:32 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #120-123 sees the return of Stan from what I believe they dubbed a vacation. Nice for some. Forget about all that exposition that the whippersnappers are into, Stan's FF is all-action. This is a long and convoluted Galactus story that is not merely a rehash of the original Galactus story, but a rehash of the rehash in FF #74-78. It starts with the arrival of what appears to be Galactus' latest herald, Gabriel the Air-Walker, who blows his horn to announce the end of the world. I'm not a huge fan of the character design, to be honest, and it's an absolute waste of print space when he turns out to be a robot and is cast aside. Big John does draw a pretty cool splash page at the end of #120, but that's about all the Air-Walker is good for. He's really just a precursor for the reappearance of Galactus and the Silver Surfer. Galactus wants his herald back and there's a lot of grandstanding and moralizing. The public are panicking again, as they have been throughout the post-Kirby era, and who can blame them really? They must have PTSD from the constant threats to mankind. The Surfer is prepared to sacrifice himself for the good of mankind, but Reed's not having a bar of it. He keeps telling everyone he has a plan, but no one will listen to him. Nixon orders the military to get involved and one of the soldiers mistakenly shoots Reed. There's no blood, but we're told that Reed is at death's door. Instead of rushing him to an emergency room, the Surfer takes him to a meadow somewhere and performs surgery with his eyes. Reed's plan works and Galactus ends up trapped in the Negative Zone where we'll never hear from him again.
The coolest part of this story arc is a sequence where Sue rides on Reed's back through the city, including walking across his outstretched back like a tightrope walker, and they fly in a rocket to Galactus' ship where Reed manages to make his way into the giant cockpit and take control of the ship. This all takes place in the span of about five minutes while Galactus is fighting Johnny, but it's beautifully drawn.
Stan didn't create too many original characters after Jack left, but the most effective one may have been the Baxter Building landlord, Walter Collins, who is a constant thorn in the group's side and keeps upsetting them by labelling them freaks. Either Stan was having trouble with his landlord or he felt the FF needed a Jameson type character to rile things up. The scenes with Agatha Harkness continue to be ridiculous. She has now taken on the role of The Watcher when it comes to warning the FF of galactic threats, and Reed uses her at the end to communicate with everyone on the planet and assure them that the threat is over. FINALLY, someone points out the fact that Reed is entrusting the care of his child to a witch, and it takes the Silver Surfer, an alien, to point it out! Reed is blasé about it. He basically says, "Oh we didn't know that she was a witch at the time, but now that we do, we can't think of anyone better to protect our son." Another pet peeve, and possibly No Prize time, Reed needed special equipment to detect Ben's heartbeat after he was sucker punched by the Hulk, but he can find Ben's pulse without any trouble. Bullsheet.
So, I'm sensing a pattern here with Atlantis' invasion of New York, the coming of the Over-Mind, and the return of Galactus, and that pattern is that Stan didn't really have much clue when it came to story ideas, which adds fuel to the fire that Jack came up with most of the storylines and that Stan made limited contributions. He may have been coasting, but considering it was panic stations when Kirby quit, you'd assume he was putting his best foot forward, at least in the beginning. The fact that Stan went back to Galactus and the Surfer, and would do so again in the future, makes me doubt his ability to come up with fresh, original ideas. Even with the Over Mind, Archie Goodwin did all of the heavy lifting. There's one storyline left to go, and it resurrects one of the low points of the Kirby/Lee run, so we won't hold out breath for that one.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 28, 2023 19:29:15 GMT -5
The scenes with Agatha Harkness continue to be ridiculous. She has now taken on the role of The Watcher when it comes to warning the FF of galactic threats, and Reed uses her at the end to communicate with everyone on the planet and assure them that the threat is over. FINALLY, someone points out the fact that Reed is entrusting the care of his child to a witch, and it takes the Silver Surfer, an alien, to point it out! Reed is blasé about it. He basically says, "Oh we didn't know that she was a witch at the time, but now that we do, we can't think of anyone better to protect our son." All well and good until her evil son comes for him. |
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Post by spoon on Jul 29, 2023 20:05:52 GMT -5
I read the Green Lantern: Secret Origins TPB reprinting Green Lantern #29-35 from the Geoff Johns runs. According my list of TPBs (where I turn the font bold after I read one), I hadn't read this before. But it seemed familiar at times, and I sporadically read a few Johns issue of GL, so I might have read a couple as floppies.
It's all set in the past, re-telling Hal Jordan's origin as Green Lantern and the early days thereafter, with various alterations. It seems bold to take 7 straight out of an ongoing series to visit the past. There's no framing sequence in the present, but I assume one purpose was to work a couple things from that Green Lantern run into GL's revised origin, like the villain Atrocitus and set up for the Darkest Night event.
The art by Ivan Reis is generally good, but sometimes facial expressions look a little off. There are some very cool two-page spreads. What I don't like as much is the writing. The changes feel very forced, like Johns threw some examples from "How to Make Your Script More Interesting" and threw them in without thoughtfulness or artistry. I suppose Johns read somewhere that flawed heroes are more interesting, but he goes way overboard. Hal is portrayed as a reckless baby with no impulse control. I recently watched the movie Wonderstruck who shouts a bunch of his lines with the same intonation. It rhymes me of that. It's lacking interesting nuance or likeability to the character for just flaws. Hal is resentful about his father being killed in an airplane accident while Hal watched, but he becomes a reckless flyer himself. It doesn't make sense. No maybe there a complex psychological explanation for the contradiction, but Johns doesn't bother to explain. It's just throw a bunch of disjointed plot elements without any motivational coherence and claim it's complexity. It's similar with Carol Ferris.
The Green Lantern Corps gets portrayed as brimming with machismo and militarism. I like the GLC much better when it's portrayed like Starfleet from Star Trek at its best: valuing diversity and curiosity. I feel like Kilowog was a nuanced character back in the Englehart/Staton run. He was an engineer and the survivor of a species that was a victim of genocide. Here, he's just a drill sergeant.
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