Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,194 
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Post by Confessor on Jan 7, 2024 20:23:29 GMT -5
I doubt that lots of girls get turned on by abusive fathers who are cruel to their friends. But, no, I’ve never read it. Maybe I can be convinced that this is a very common thing. Well, I'm not saying it exactly like that: I'm not saying lots of teenage girls get turned on by their friend's abusive fathers. I'm just pointing out that overbearing bullies in positions of authority can and do sometimes attract young impressionable women. My point being that just because Norman Osborn is an unlikable guy, that doesn't mean he's automatically not attractive to women. Life is messy, sexual attraction can sometimes be a weird thing, and people make mistakes. Where is it ever stated that Gwen hangs out with older men a lot, her father’s friends? It makes me wonder if you’ve ever read Gwen’s 1960s and 1970s appearances. There are lots of scenes with her going to college, in class, at the Coffee Bean. Number of scenes where she’s hanging out with Captain Stacy’s friends - zero. I've read every appearance of Gwen Stacy's from the Silver and early Bronze Age. I grew up reading Spider-Man stories from when Gwen was still alive via 70s UK reprints and then filled in the blanks by reading every Silver Age issue of Amazing Spider-Man (mostly via reprints in Marvel Tales) in the 80s and 90s. The first 200 issues of ASM are probably my all-time favourite run of comics. So I'm very familiar with Gwen's '60s and '70s appearances and she's one of my favourite Spidey supporting cast members. As for my theory that Gwen was used to having her father's older friends round the house, it's never explicitly stated, no, but we do on occasion see that the likes of J. Jonah Jameson, Norman Osborn etc are friends or associates of Captain Stacy's. I couldn't point to specific instances off the top of my head, but aren't they all members of the same gentlemen's club? And I'm sure that I recall the likes of Jameson calling at the Stacy house. But regardless of specific panels/issues, it just stands to reason that since Captain Stacy is an older gentleman that his friends would be too and sometimes they would naturally call round to the house. This would've been the environment that Gwen was raised in and she would therefore be used to having older men around as she was growing up. But this is just a fan theory, as I said earlier, and it's not meant to explain Gwen's ill-judged, one time sexual liaison with Osborn. It seems like a totally believable thing to me on its own, without any theorising about events off-panel by me. Gwen having slept with Norman is just a terrible mistake made by a naïve young girl, at a time when she was emotionally vulnerable and which she bitterly regretted afterwards. No further rationale or explanation needed. If you like it, that’s fine. But you have to work really hard and make stuff up to begin to justify it. I disagree. You don't need to make anything up in order to accept it a shocking twist in the life story of Gwen Stacy. Sins Past is not available from the library. So I got it from comixology. I’ll be reading it over the next few days. I'll be interested in your thoughts. I'm guessing you'll be predisposed to dislike it, coming to it with years of prejudice against it as baggage. But hopefully you can be open-minded enough to at least try to give it a fair chance. I think the writing and artwork are really strong. Also, try to bear in mind what it would've been like to have read it at the time, month by month and issue by issue. The first two or three issues especially were real edge-of-your-seat gripping as they were coming out. |
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Post by Calidore on Jan 7, 2024 20:53:51 GMT -5
Was re-reading Journey Into Mystery/Thor #114 and Creel's face he makes once he realizes he's now suddenly BURSTING with power never fails to make me laugh 
I think that's an exact depiction of Socrates when he drank and then they told him what it was.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2024 20:23:20 GMT -5
It was quite the weekend for bad comics.
icctrombone and I are going to do a joint thread where we’re reading and commenting on Thor. We don’t want to review the early issues one by one, so we’re just going to have general comments on JIM #83 to #96 when we start the thread. So we’re both reading those early issues each at his own pace. I read #90 to #92 over the weekend. The art on the Joe Sinnott issues is pretty good, but the Al Hartley art on #90 is pretty dismal, as are all three of the stories.
But those issues of Journey into Mystery were the highlight of the weekend!
I continued my project to read every issue of Detective Comics from #244 on. I’m making my way through the first year of the New Look issues, and I hit a bad patch. #335 and #336 are both pretty bad, and the next issue is the one with the flying caveman in the ice block. I haven’t been able to bring myself to read it yet. I don’t remember how bad #338 is. But once I get there, one of my favorites, the living beast bomb in #339, is next. I just gotta keep on swimming.
And I read all of Sins Past over the weekend. I wasn’t really quite prepared for just how bad it is. Why didn’t somebody warn me? I am so mad at all of you. (I was kind of busy today and I didn’t really have time to give Sins Past the treatment it deserves. Hopefully I will have some time to comment more fully tomorrow.)
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jan 8, 2024 20:41:18 GMT -5
It was quite the weekend for bad comics. icctrombone and I are going to do a joint thread where we’re reading and commenting on Thor. We don’t want to review the early issues one by one, so we’re just going to have general comments on JIM #83 to #96 when we start the thread. So we’re both reading those early issues each at his own pace. I read #90 to #92 over the weekend. The art on the Joe Sinnott issues is pretty good, but the Al Hartley art on #90 is pretty dismal, as are all three of the stories. But those issues of Journey into Mystery were the highlight of the weekend! I continued my project to read every issue of Detective Comics from #244 on. I’m making my way through the first year of the New Look issues, and I hit a bad patch. #335 and #336 are both pretty bad, and the next issue is the one with the flying caveman in the ice block. I haven’t been able to bring myself to read it yet. I don’t remember how bad #338 is. But once I get there, one of my favorites, the living beast bomb in #339, is next. I just gotta keep on swimming. And I read all of Sins Past over the weekend. I wasn’t really quite prepared for just how bad it is. Why didn’t somebody warn me? I am so mad at all of you. (I was kind of busy today and I didn’t really have time to give Sins Past the treatment it deserves. Hopefully I will have some time to comment more fully tomorrow.) I think everyone except Confessor did warn you how bad it was. It's "I can never get the time I spent reading those back" bad. Everyone here (and on just about ever other comic forum, message board, social media platform, etc.) has commented how bad it is. But now you've experienced it for yourself. -M |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2024 21:09:12 GMT -5
It was quite the weekend for bad comics. icctrombone and I are going to do a joint thread where we’re reading and commenting on Thor. We don’t want to review the early issues one by one, so we’re just going to have general comments on JIM #83 to #96 when we start the thread. So we’re both reading those early issues each at his own pace. I read #90 to #92 over the weekend. The art on the Joe Sinnott issues is pretty good, but the Al Hartley art on #90 is pretty dismal, as are all three of the stories. But those issues of Journey into Mystery were the highlight of the weekend! I continued my project to read every issue of Detective Comics from #244 on. I’m making my way through the first year of the New Look issues, and I hit a bad patch. #335 and #336 are both pretty bad, and the next issue is the one with the flying caveman in the ice block. I haven’t been able to bring myself to read it yet. I don’t remember how bad #338 is. But once I get there, one of my favorites, the living beast bomb in #339, is next. I just gotta keep on swimming. And I read all of Sins Past over the weekend. I wasn’t really quite prepared for just how bad it is. Why didn’t somebody warn me? I am so mad at all of you. (I was kind of busy today and I didn’t really have time to give Sins Past the treatment it deserves. Hopefully I will have some time to comment more fully tomorrow.) I think everyone except Confessor did warn you how bad it was. It's "I can never get the time I spent reading those back" bad. Everyone here (and on just about ever other comic forum, message board, social media platform, etc.) has commented how bad it is. But now you've experienced it for yourself. -M LOL. That’s true, in essence. But no one REALLY prepared me for THAT! Maybe if someone had said something like, “It’s even worse than All-Star Batman and Robin!” I would have had a better idea what I was getting into. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2024 21:21:32 GMT -5
Even Linkara tried to warn me! But I wouldn’t listen!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 8, 2024 21:53:03 GMT -5
But is it worse than the Crossing?
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jan 8, 2024 22:12:47 GMT -5
But is it worse than the Crossing? As much as I despise the Crossing, yes it's worse. -M |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,194
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Post by Confessor on Jan 8, 2024 22:28:57 GMT -5
But no one REALLY prepared me for THAT! Maybe if someone had said something like, “It’s even worse than All-Star Batman and Robin!” I would have had a better idea what I was getting into. Lol...so, if I'm understanding you right, you didn't like it then?  Well, fair enough...at least you took the time to read it. I still think it's a really good comic arc and, for me at least, a welcome addition to the whole Gwen Stacy tragedy. But I think it's safe to say that I would definitely seem to be in the minority there. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 8, 2024 22:35:09 GMT -5
But no one REALLY prepared me for THAT! Maybe if someone had said something like, “It’s even worse than All-Star Batman and Robin!” I would have had a better idea what I was getting into. Lol...so, if I'm understanding you right, you didn't like it then? Well, fair enough...at least you took the time to read it. I still think it's a really good comic arc and, for me at least, a welcome addition to the whole Gwen Stacy tragedy. But I think it's safe to say that I would definitely seem to be in the minority there. Even putting aside the whole “Even though I’m supposedly in love with Peter and Mr. Osborne is an abusive tyrant to his son, I just can’t resist Norman’s mysterious, vulnerable magnetism” thing, it’s pretty bad. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 8, 2024 23:49:59 GMT -5
I've been slowly reading Fantastic Four Epic vol. 4.. I just finished the 3 parter where Doom takes the Silver Surfer's power. While the ending was kinda silly, I just love the good old days when cool villains were actually evil and we didn't have to have them try to be noble. I LOVED Sue tricking him into smashing himself into a mountain... I've definitely seen it out of context before, but reading in these 60s stories where they try hard to make Sue a happy little wife was awesome.
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Post by dominocorp on Jan 9, 2024 2:04:56 GMT -5
I've been reading some of the First run of Nexus, which I find really interesting. I've read it in bits and pieces forever, but haven't sat down and run a chunk until now. I'm wondering what people think is the best era...I think Rude's art soars in the early Dark Horse mini series (Origin, Alien Justice) but I can't recall how the stories read. There doesn't seem to be a consensus on what stories are the best, which I think speaks to how sttange the series is overall... I've been doing a re-read of the entire Nexus series for a while now. I'm currently up to Nexus: Nightmare in Blue. Personally, I think the first few years of the First series are the best. Rude's art is fantastic in the Dark Horse work, but the stories are somewhat rudderless and generally about particular themes instead of continuing the continuity of the First series. While Baron did have some overarching story ideas, I don't think long-term storytelling was a particular strength of his. Even deep into the run, Horiato is still grappling with the same basic problems. I still think it's a great series, though. Yeah...I just wanna look closely at the early Dark Horse work because it does seem so beautiful, and Baron's work getting odder shouldn't neccesarily be bad. I think as a younger reader, the Dark Horse stuff just felt baffling but I'm interested in engaging with it and giving it more slack. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 9, 2024 2:16:04 GMT -5
But those issues of Journey into Mystery were the highlight of the weekend! I'm sorry for your loss then, because I have those at 3.5/10. Can't imagine how bad the others were. The decision of starting to review issues individually only from the point where ToA begins, was the right one. The first year of Thor was appalling. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 9, 2024 2:18:08 GMT -5
Even Linkara tried to warn me! But I wouldn’t listen! I'm not feeling sorry for you on that one, own it! |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,194
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Post by Confessor on Jan 9, 2024 8:06:01 GMT -5
Even Linkara tried to warn me! But I wouldn’t listen! I haven't watched all of this, but I did watch as far as his commentary on the opening pages of the first issue...the scene with MJ rehearsing in an off-Broadway show called Cats Always Lie. This Linkara guy has completely missed the point of that scene. It's gone right over his head. That whole opening scene is simply there as foreshadowing. The director of the play telling MJ to "just tell the truth" and "stop acting" is, frankly, really obvious and not terribly sophisticated foreshadowing of the secret she carries about what happened between Gwen and Osborn (which she will later confess to Peter). The fact that this "reviewer" missed that and even offers criticism of the director's coaching style -- as if that is in any way relevant! -- says to me that he hasn't got the smarts to review the ingredients on a cereal packet. Given his failure to pick up on such an obvious literary device, I decided his opinion was basically worthless. Which is not to say that your reaction to "Sins Past" should change or isn't valid, Hoosier. Or that it in any way strengthens my championing of that story. My point isn't really about "Sins Past" at all. It's more that this Linkara fella, like so many other self-appointed "reviewers" or "critics" on YouTube, doesn't know his arse from his elbow when it comes to literary criticism. I see clowns like this reviewing albums or films all the time on YT too -- and they really don't have any business putting their opinions out there in front of the public as if it's worthy of anybody's time. It's also why I hate "reaction" videos. Life is too short to waste time watching know-nothing, attention-seeking morons try to tell me whether some piece of music, film, theatre etc has any merit or not. [/grumpy rant over]  |
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