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Post by tingramretro on May 28, 2016 11:13:45 GMT -5
Dips in sales doesn't reflect the quality of the comics, but it does reflect what people want or are willing to spend money one. You say people want soap operas and always have, except soap operas have all but disappeared in modern American entertainment-all the major networks use dot fill the entire afternoon of programming with soaps, and then prime time soaps, then the Soap Opera network rebroadcast them for people to watch and a cottage industry of magazines covering the soaps emerged, and now for the most part, it's all gone-daytime soaps died because American consumers interest in soaps as an entertainment form dried up.
I wonder if the disappearance of soaps is more due to the short attention span of the public today. This generation wants a quick payoff, not a slow burn. As for comics being top seller at 85k, The price point is the problem. 4 bucks for one 20 page comic is a lot. This surprised me. Soaps are still inexplicably popular in Britain. Two of them are routinely among the most watched shows on TV, and have been for several decades. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 13:31:59 GMT -5
Dips in sales doesn't reflect the quality of the comics, but it does reflect what people want or are willing to spend money one. You say people want soap operas and always have, except soap operas have all but disappeared in modern American entertainment-all the major networks use dot fill the entire afternoon of programming with soaps, and then prime time soaps, then the Soap Opera network rebroadcast them for people to watch and a cottage industry of magazines covering the soaps emerged, and now for the most part, it's all gone-daytime soaps died because American consumers interest in soaps as an entertainment form dried up.
I wonder if the disappearance of soaps is more due to the short attention span of the public today. This generation wants a quick payoff, not a slow burn. As for comics being top seller at 85k, The price point is the problem. 4 bucks for one 20 page comic is a lot. The price point is more to do with economy of scale than anything. Printing prices skyrocket the lower your print run gets. When we were shopping for printing shops when I was editing for the small press comic studio, unit costs could increase by 50-75% every time you dropped a certain number of units in your print run. It's a lot cheaper per unit to print 250K units of a book than it is to print 50K, and when you figure in other production cost increases, cover price is not going to come down any time soon. That's why niche products are always more expensive than mass market products, and print comics in the direct market are pretty much a textbook definition of a niche product right now. If the average book moved 300K units instead of 30K, cover prices would be a lot less, but until sales increase, prices will not decrease, and as sales shrink, cover prices will continue to spiral upwards. Factor in the distribution model where Marvel and DC only get 25% of the cover price in actual revenue from the books and you have a situation where cover prices will continue to get higher and higher as everything else in the cost realm (salaries, insurance, rent, utilities, paper costs, etc.) continues to increase as well. In order to be cheap disposable entertainment, you need to be a mass market product. Comics are not. Niche products are expensive and only sell to a core audience until they price themselves out of the audience's willingness to pay for them or the core audience dies off, then they disappear. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 28, 2016 16:13:58 GMT -5
The price point is more to do with economy of scale than anything. Printing prices skyrocket the lower your print run gets. When we were shopping for printing shops when I was editing for the small press comic studio, unit costs could increase by 50-75% every time you dropped a certain number of units in your print run. It's a lot cheaper per unit to print 250K units of a book than it is to print 50K, and when you figure in other production cost increases, cover price is not going to come down any time soon. That's why niche products are always more expensive than mass market products, and print comics in the direct market are pretty much a textbook definition of a niche product right now. If the average book moved 300K units instead of 30K, cover prices would be a lot less, but until sales increase, prices will not decrease, and as sales shrink, cover prices will continue to spiral upwards. Factor in the distribution model where Marvel and DC only get 25% of the cover price in actual revenue from the books and you have a situation where cover prices will continue to get higher and higher as everything else in the cost realm (salaries, insurance, rent, utilities, paper costs, etc.) continues to increase as well. In order to be cheap disposable entertainment, you need to be a mass market product. Comics are not. Niche products are expensive and only sell to a core audience until they price themselves out of the audience's willingness to pay for them or the core audience dies off, then they disappear. -M You just explained what I wrote. It doesn't matter what the reason, 4 dollars is not perceived as a value. MU unlimited is worth the price, but 10 issues a month for 40 dollars is not. |
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Post by dupersuper on May 28, 2016 21:42:25 GMT -5
Meh. He knew he was adding to the communal toy chest. Chiding some one for using the toys he left seems petty. The problem is that around 1986 everything important seemed to wrap up at Marvel and DC (with some exceptions) and the fans that would later turn pro have been overly obsessed with specific stories and plots ever since. Exceptions like Sandman, Lucifer, Invisibles, Fables, Hellblazer...really the entire Vertigo line (DCU and indie), the DC distributed Milestone line, Impact, Wildstorm, ABC, Paradox Press, Helix, Marvel Max, Ultimate Marvel, Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Deadpool, Harley Quinn, Vext, Resurrection Man, Major Bummer, Slott Silver Surfer, Under the Red Hood, Winter Soldier, Man of Steel, Batman Year One, Perez Wonder Woman, Hawkworld, Emerald Dawn, speed force, emotional spectrum, multiversity, Steel, Superboy, Eradicator, Gangbuster, Alpha Centurion, Silver Banshee, Imperiex, Old Man Logan, Justice Legion A, Tempus Fugitive, 52, the current Hanna Barbera line, Earth One books, New Frontier, Kingdom Come, Tiny Titans, Superman: Secret Identity, JLA: The Nail, Gotham by Gaslight, Amazonia, Red Son, Jeff Smith Shazam, Ordway Shazam, Robinson Starman, Ostrander Suicide Squad, JLI, Peter Davids Aquaman Young Justice and Supergirl, Priests Steel, Jones GL and GL Mosaic, Waids Flash, Birthright, Infinity Gauntlet, Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Apocalypse, Hush, Long Halloween, Hitman, Legends of the Dark Knight, Solo, Stern Starman, Action Comics Weekly, Eisner graphic novels, Death of Superman, Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, Superman/GL: Legend of the Flame, Batman: Ego, Moores own Swamp Thing and Batman work, Killing Joke, Man Who Laughs, Infinity Inc, Sovereign 7, Astro City, Blasters, Valor, Primal Force, 5 Years Later Legion, DC Comics Bombshells, Morison Animal Man, Mad Love, Wednesday Comics, Darkstars, LEGION, Joe Kubert Presents, Batman: Digital Justice, Batman: Ultimate Evil, landmine PSAs, Batman: Death by Design, Justice Inc, Superboy and the Ravers, Jurgens Teen Titans, New 52, The Weird, Outcast, Electric Warrior, Tailgunner Jo, Silverblade, All Star Superman...
Most don't work or don't stick, but new characters, approaches, stories, status quos et al are tried constantly. Many ARE critically and/or financially successful. Many are "important" enough to be called back as often as things from before 1986, and be adapted in DCs TV shows and movies. 1986 is an arbitrary cut-off unless you're just still bitter about Crisis on Infinite Earths.
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Post by dupersuper on May 28, 2016 21:43:32 GMT -5
Comics have been around for a lot longer than 80 years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought besides a few outliers comics started in America in 1933 or so. Educate me. That's...more than 80 years ago. |
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Post by Action Ace on May 28, 2016 21:50:51 GMT -5
I just want to know when Atom Rebirth #1 is coming out.
Ryan Choi searching the Microverse for Ray Palmer for a year, give me that.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 28, 2016 22:30:41 GMT -5
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought besides a few outliers comics started in America in 1933 or so. Educate me. That's...more than 80 years ago. Not if you round down. |
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Post by String on May 29, 2016 16:31:06 GMT -5
I feel like not enough is being made of the elegant simplicity of Wally Classic's explanation of "Oh yeah, I have a cousin I never told you about and his name is also Wally West and that's who that other guy is." That was a nice "eat your cake and have it to" moment. "Relax every one reading about the new guy; he's not going anywhere". Given how many Caps, Hawkeyes, Spider-Men, and Thors (not to mention the younger versions of the Original X-Men) are currently running around, I am completely content with this explanation. Thanks to Venditti and Van Jensen, NuWally has gotten slightly more interesting so I'm intrigued to see what they have in store for him as well. |
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Post by Action Ace on May 29, 2016 23:11:39 GMT -5
That was a nice "eat your cake and have it to" moment. "Relax every one reading about the new guy; he's not going anywhere". Given how many Caps, Hawkeyes, Spider-Men, and Thors (not to mention the younger versions of the Original X-Men) are currently running around, I am completely content with this explanation. Thanks to Venditti and Van Jensen, NuWally has gotten slightly more interesting so I'm intrigued to see what they have in store for him as well. They've also got New Wally in good position on the tv show too. Assuming anyone still exists when Season 3 starts.  |
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Post by Gene on May 30, 2016 22:21:16 GMT -5
I wonder what Wally Classic is going to call himself now? Barry's the Flash and New Wally is going to be Kid Flash, so he's going to need a new superhero name. I'll probably be happy as long as it's not "The Streak."
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Post by tingramretro on May 31, 2016 5:47:57 GMT -5
I wonder what Wally Classic is going to call himself now? Barry's the Flash and New Wally is going to be Kid Flash, so he's going to need a new superhero name. I'll probably be happy as long as it's not "The Streak." Deputy Flash the Teen Wonder? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 17:06:11 GMT -5
Young Flash? Flash Junior?
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Post by Action Ace on May 31, 2016 18:24:51 GMT -5
Speedy?
Wally Troy?
Scarlet Speedster?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 21:33:22 GMT -5
Read it this afternoon, I'll give Johns this, he knows what buttons to push to appeal to fanboys, but really there was nothing there to attract anyone who is not already in love with the DCU to come to the party. Nothing there to interest me enough to buy into any of the Rebirth titles moving forward. It was a lot of calculated melodrama to hit the points that resonate with fans without bringing anything new to the party except leaching off Watchmen's popularity and status within fandom. Calculated melodrama to excite those who already have bought into the DCU and wear that fandom on their sleeves.
It will rejuvenate their sales to the lapsed crowd, but it will do nothing to build readership beyond that; the fact that it is a 2 year plan shows that ownership/suits paid attention and recognize the flower comes off the bloom after two years on a stunt like this, and the sales spurt of returning lapsed readers will have crested and be on the decline by then, so it will give them one last burst at the end with the wrap up and then on to the next stunt to try to woo back lapsed readers.
Solid business plan for maximizing sales in a niche market, but it will not do anything to grow their business outside the already dedicated market.
-M
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Post by Batflunkie on May 31, 2016 21:57:49 GMT -5
I'm reminded of story for a comic I came up with during my late teens regarding a dream I had. Basic premise is that this highly prestigious network that airs all the soap operas ever created is going off the air, so they decide to kill off one of the stars of their original programming and reanimate his body irl. They do this so that they can have a realistically dead character without having to invest hundreds of dollars in makeup & prosthetics There was this old soap series that I enjoyed called "Passions" that inspired it some what. Think of it as something of a progenitor of ABC's "Once Upon A Time", but made in the late 90's/early 00's |
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