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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 29, 2016 15:08:43 GMT -5
Wonder Woman#20 Who Killed Myndi Mayer Reading it now had much more of an impact that when I was a teenager in 1988. A very neat whodunit style story with great Perez artwork. Killing Mindi Mayer was something I hadn't seen coming! She was a great character.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 30, 2016 1:56:44 GMT -5
Wonder Woman#20 Who Killed Myndi Mayer Reading it now had much more of an impact that when I was a teenager in 1988. A very neat whodunit style story with great Perez artwork. Killing Mindi Mayer was something I hadn't seen coming! She was a great character. I read a decent amount of that run a while ago. I need to read it again because I've forgotten a lot of it, but I do remember that story about Mindi Mayer. The ending really caught me cold with the outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 8:31:48 GMT -5
The first 20 issues or so of Perez's Wonder Woman are really good. I have been re-reading them lately and I understand the stories so much better than when I was a young teenager. I remember being disappointed with the stories back then because I kept waiting for her to wonder-spin, be Diana Prince, and for a more pre-crisis setting. Re-reading the stories now--post crisis was a very new and fresh take on what was then a stale character to some. The series went off kilter later on, but I truly appreciate the new life Perez and company gave Wonder Woman in the 80s.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 30, 2016 10:42:13 GMT -5
The first 20 issues or so of Perez's Wonder Woman are really good. I have been re-reading them lately and I understand the stories so much better than when I was a young teenager. I remember being disappointed with the stories back then because I kept waiting for her to wonder-spin, be Diana Prince, and for a more pre-crisis setting. Re-reading the stories now--post crisis was a very new and fresh take on what was then a stale character to some. The series went off kilter later on, but I truly appreciate the new life Perez and company gave Wonder Woman in the 80s. Same here. I didn't really know Wonder Woman before Perez's run; I don't think I had read more than a handful of her stories, and among these were the ones in which she met Fahfrd and the Grey Mouser (back when she was more Tara King than Diana Prince). The only time I had really liked her was in the Superman annual "for the man who has everything", written by Alan Moore. Perez's version really resonated with me, as I had just read Maurice Druon's Les mémoires de Zeus and was on a Greek mythology trip. (I later realized that Perez's WW was kind of a Greek version of Marvel's Thor, but hey... it was still awesome!) Perez's WW was action-packed, thoughtful, subtle and a pleasure to read. I wish it had continued in that vein.
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Post by String on Aug 30, 2016 14:57:59 GMT -5
They really do just smash the classic X-Men status quo - say goodbye to the Mansion and your favourite characters, here's Havok, Longshot and some chick named Psylocke instead. Ballsy. Yes! The lineup that for many people is THE quintesstial X-lineup is shattered and tossed to the winds. In hindsight I also think it's quite poignant that when they leave the mansion, it's the last time the X-Men and NM share that place, until just before that line wide reshuffle. Mutant Massacre was a game-changer on a number of levels, from the roster shake-up to the dark tones of the story to the self-contained franchise execution of this event to the consequences that resonated for years later. UXM#213 remains my favorite issue of this story, featuring wonderful work from Alan Davis. This was my first exposure to Betsy and it wasn't until some years later that I was able to read some of Davis' original work with her in his Captain Britain strip. It's almost like she was a wholly different character by the time Claremont got to her. This was a huge risk but it played to Claremont's writing philosophy, that characters should grow, mature, get injured, retire, and even die (unless of course Editorial overrides you) and focusing on a different core of characters helped the franchise grow. Add in the forthcoming Marc Silvestri and I still love Havok, Dazzler, and Longshot to this day.
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Post by Snikts and Stones on Aug 30, 2016 15:42:39 GMT -5
Yes! The lineup that for many people is THE quintesstial X-lineup is shattered and tossed to the winds. In hindsight I also think it's quite poignant that when they leave the mansion, it's the last time the X-Men and NM share that place, until just before that line wide reshuffle. This was a huge risk but it played to Claremont's writing philosophy, that characters should grow, mature, get injured, retire, and even die (unless of course Editorial overrides you) and focusing on a different core of characters helped the franchise grow. Add in the forthcoming Marc Silvestri and I still love Havok, Dazzler, and Longshot to this day. Absolutely! Remember that when Cyclops left the team, it was him being WRITTEN OUT, to walk off into the sunset with Maddie and Nathan... He could come back for big events, or an emergency but he was to be retired... Then Shooter and Layton get the X-Factor bug up their asses, which wouldn't have been as bad if they didn't decide to bring Jean back from the dead (a death Shooter ironically had demanded not 5 years prior) and basically make everything go pear shaped. Jean comes back, Claremont and Byrne's classic ending gets pooped on, Cyclops morphs into some horrible emo man child, and Maddie is marginalized to the point of literal redundancy... ok, I think I got a little out of hand there, but I agree completel...
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Post by Spike-X on Aug 31, 2016 3:02:22 GMT -5
The first 20 issues or so of Perez's Wonder Woman are really good. I have been re-reading them lately and I understand the stories so much better than when I was a young teenager. I remember being disappointed with the stories back then because I kept waiting for her to wonder-spin, be Diana Prince, and for a more pre-crisis setting. Re-reading the stories now--post crisis was a very new and fresh take on what was then a stale character to some. The series went off kilter later on, but I truly appreciate the new life Perez and company gave Wonder Woman in the 80s. Yeah, these were some great comics. It went off the boil for me once Perez stopped drawing it, but those first couple dozen issues were gold. I hope I can find a copy of the recent Omnibus once I can actually afford it.
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Post by tingramretro on Aug 31, 2016 4:33:15 GMT -5
Yes! The lineup that for many people is THE quintesstial X-lineup is shattered and tossed to the winds. In hindsight I also think it's quite poignant that when they leave the mansion, it's the last time the X-Men and NM share that place, until just before that line wide reshuffle. Mutant Massacre was a game-changer on a number of levels, from the roster shake-up to the dark tones of the story to the self-contained franchise execution of this event to the consequences that resonated for years later. UXM#213 remains my favorite issue of this story, featuring wonderful work from Alan Davis. This was my first exposure to Betsy and it wasn't until some years later that I was able to read some of Davis' original work with her in his Captain Britain strip. It's almost like she was a wholly different character by the time Claremont got to her. Claremont actually created Betsy Braddock, in Captain Britain #13 back in December 1976. Back then, she was a blonde haired charter pilot, so the Alan Moore/Alan Davis purple haired fashion model/spy version in the early eighties was actually the first revamp of her as a character. Of course, when Claremont got hold of her again, he totally changed her from not only who she had been when written by Moore, Davis and Jamie Delano, but also from who she had been when he himself had first introduced her. in fact, it wasn't until her first American appearance, ten years after her actual introduction, that her psychic powers were even confirmed to be a result of her being a mutant...
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 31, 2016 6:11:46 GMT -5
I've reached the end of the Judas contract at this point in my exploration of The New Teen Titans run by Marv Wolfman and George Perez. This is over 45 issues of work in, including annuals. I have to say at this point, the run is well worth the investment of time. While I do have some nitpicks with a couple of the characters in particular along with some setup elements in the beginning or the run, it's not a big deal for the quality crafted story that is presented. After finishing the four issue run on The Judas Contract, I remember being thoroughly entertained, and it really must have been a joy when this came out in the mid eighties to be able to fully take all of this in for the first time without the foreknowledge of what ultimately happens which I unfortunately didn't have the luxury of. Being involved in the comic and pop culture world already spoiled some major parts of the narrative for me sadly. But I still got a lot of substance out of the material. At the time it came out these issues were months apart during it's release, and wasn't something I'm guessing that was planed for development later as a trade, which some arcs maybe are designed for today as I've heard. So people really had time to get connected with the characters in the story before Wolfman and Perez shuffle the deck on the player. If people are interested, the first two omnibus covers the inception of the run up until this point. If you don't want to, or can't afford to read the entire run one of the books is still worth the bread as both offer really good stories (although I heard vol 2 omits issue 38 and maybe 39 for some reason). If you just want the Judas contract storyline, then I think there is a trade of that from in the early 2000's that is either still in print or at least still available. I'm going to continue on this run for a while until the shoe drops. I know Wolfman spends a lot more time on this after Perez leaves, which is a shame. I do want to read the 50 issue Vigilante run which this Titans series gets your foot in the door for. I heard that is really a product of it's time.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 31, 2016 7:54:07 GMT -5
The first 20 issues or so of Perez's Wonder Woman are really good. I have been re-reading them lately and I understand the stories so much better than when I was a young teenager. I remember being disappointed with the stories back then because I kept waiting for her to wonder-spin, be Diana Prince, and for a more pre-crisis setting. Re-reading the stories now--post crisis was a very new and fresh take on what was then a stale character to some. The series went off kilter later on, but I truly appreciate the new life Perez and company gave Wonder Woman in the 80s. Yeah, these were some great comics. It went off the boil for me once Perez stopped drawing it, but those first couple dozen issues were gold. I hope I can find a copy of the recent Omnibus once I can actually afford it. DC just released a paperback version collecting the Perez Wonder Woman issues 1 through 14 with bonus Who's Who pages. $16.90 currently on Amazon
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 31, 2016 14:26:49 GMT -5
Adventure Comics #416, with a collection of female super-hero stories. I'm only half way through it, but there's a Supergirl story from Action Comics #309-310. I love how shabbily she treats her adoptive parents, going off to look for her Kryptonian parents behind their backs, even getting them to help by operating her Phantom Zone projector to go look for them there, only telling them that she's going on a "secret mission". I also love how her earth father knows how to operate her Kryptonian Ionic Ray machine (or whatever it was) just because he's an Electrical Engineer. There's also a Golden Age Black Canary/Johnny Thunder story which was decent, and a Golden Age Wonder Woman story, which I'm half way through and is quite good so far, for a Golden Age story.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Aug 31, 2016 20:19:26 GMT -5
Just read Warlock #5...Doom is in it, minus his costume. I have no issues of this series for context, but is the story taking place in a different time period? Doom (or Von Doom) references his colleague Reed Richards...were they working together for a brief period of time? Was he "good" during this time period?
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Post by The Captain on Aug 31, 2016 20:35:48 GMT -5
Just read Warlock #5...Doom is in it, minus his costume. I have no issues of this series for context, but is the story taking place in a different time period? Doom (or Von Doom) references his colleague Reed Richards...were they working together for a brief period of time? Was he "good" during this time period? That story takes place on Counter-Earth, which is a world identical to our earth and which rotates around the sun directly opposite our earth so that the general public here doesn't know it exists. It was created by the High Evolutionary in order to populate it with perfect human beings, as opposed to the corrupted ones that existed on our earth, but his plans get messed up by Man-Beast, who serves as Warlock's arch-nemesis in that series.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Aug 31, 2016 20:42:02 GMT -5
Thanks, I misread the part where he is reflecting on counter Earth and did not realize his stories actually take place there. Also makes sense because people die, which is something I cannot recall seeing in a Marvel Superhero book, at least not large masses of people.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Sept 1, 2016 11:50:16 GMT -5
As I continue my journey through Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four run, it's pretty clear that these old comics of the time period could definitely be an acquired taste with modern day readers that may not have ventured this far back in exploring the medium. It's taken me a while to get through this run because I keep starting and stopping. The further I get along though, the more I am interested in most of what the stories have to offer. They are getting better, and it's clear that it did take a while for Lee and Kirby to get comfortable with their craft. There are already a few stories that I've read though that I'll remember as being quite engaging for myself. I do envy the people in the past that had the experience to read this when it came out. I'll never have that sense of wonder and awe like a lot of people did on it's initial release. So I try to always keep a historical context in mind. {Spoiler: Click to show}Fantastic Four #40 is as far as I've gotten as of now, and I wouldn't be surprised if this issue ends up being one of my all time favorites depending on far I get with the title (I plan to go beyond Lee/Kirby). It's the conclusion of a two, arguably three part arc depicting the Fantastic Four having lost their powers due to a conflict with the Frightful Four during the start of the previous issue. Reed Richards and the group are now faced with the possibly new reality that their powers are gone for good. What ensues is an almost frantic Reed trying to come up with a way to counteract with the circumstances with inventions to replace with powers of the group to keep the status quo. However this soon starts to simply come off as a gimmick, and for all of Reed's intelligence it appears he will not be able to restore everyone's abilities. This is actually quite a sad scene seeing the members trying out these gizmos that are supposed to replace the gifts they once had, but sadly the lack of grace is apparent and it's clear that this approach isn't going to work in the long run. Reed then contacts ace attorney Matt Murdock, secretly known as the blind vigilante Daredevil, in an effort to hire his services for power of attorney and take care of the Fantastic Four's affairs should anything happen to them. Unfortunately this entire situation gets worse as Doctor Doom returns from his ruling of Latveria to crush the Fantastic Four. It's revealed that Doom found out that he hadn't defeated the group for good as he previously believed since he was under a hypnotic spell from a previous issue. Furious Doom arrives in New York and takes over the Baxter building while the Fantastic Four are outside practicing with their new replacement equipment. Doom now has control over all of Reed Richard's technological warehouse and uses it to his advantage trying to destroy his arch nemesis Richards and company. Didn't expect to type all this out, but this was basically a recap of issue 39 hilariously enough.
Now, issue 40 kicks off with Matt Murdock turned Daredevil trying to help the powerless Fantastic Four reach the Baxter building and avoid Doom's onslaught of advanced machinery in the process. Daredevil is really doing the heavy lifting here and it shows. He gets plenty of panel time. I remember thinking that Daredevil really wasn't the guy you wanted to help against the force of Doom as he's more of a street level hero, but Lee and Kirby do a great job of illustrating him trying his hardest with a great display of wit while essentially just trying to get himself and the group to survive being killed. Eventually everyone makes it to the Baxter building. Daredevil first while trying to sneak up on Doom to buy time for the Fantastic Four to confront Doom. They don't have their powers though, and they don't have a plan either. So it's unknown what they really plan to do. This is about the mid point of the issue. However, just went it all looks dark with Daredevil down for the count and Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm getting swated away like flies, Reed is able to locate a machine ray that was used about 4 issues back on the Skrull homeworld. He uses it to restore the group's powers. Unfortunately at this point, it does come off as Reed pulling something out of his ass to save the day. It is explained later that he simply needed the ray to charge a few more days so it could be used again which is why it wasn't used initially. So the gimmick process, as explained by Reed, was for emergency situations only. However I can't give Lee a pass here, because the way it plays out in the previous issue is that this change is probably going to be permanent. Reed is working around the clock to come up with a replacement method for the group. I know it would have killed the drama if it was explained that everything will be fine in a few days, but the initial setup and everything Reed goes through just doesn't really make sense unless he know for certain they would have to save the world the next day. Perhaps if Reed said outright that the way maybe or probably has a low chance of restoring the group's powers...that could have been better.
So anyways, Doom escapes into another part of the Baxter building after Reed, Sue, and Johnny get their powers back. Ben Grimm isn't the Thing yet, and is still groggy from being knocked out by Doom as a normal man. Reed however decides to use the ray on Ben without his consent saying that the world needs Ben as the Thing, and that he's too important. You even hear Ben saying something to the effect "Hey wait what if I don't want to go back to being the Thing anymore!?" But it's too late, as Reed pulls the trigger. This does come off as a jerk move, and Reed even explains to Sue that Ben may never forgive him for it. The Thing then chases after Doom and arrives alone to confront him. Now usually when the Fantastic Four go up against Doom, the Thing is always defeated in some manner by Doom and his contraptions. Or rather, at this point in the narrative the reader probably knows that Thing doesn't stand a chance alone against Doom. Especially since Doom is in a room surrounding by technical gadgets at his disposal. But shockingly in what I thought was a huge payoff (since Ben is probably my favorite character) he defeats Doom. And not easily. Doom in this panel sequence comes off almost as cheap video game boss that just has all of his bag of tricks that keeps pulling out of nowhere. However through sheer will and determination, Ben finally beats the odds and defeats him. Muscle over mind, and I loved every second of it. He's even in the position to kill Doom, but the Fantastic Four finally arrive in time to stop Ben from going too far. By the way where was the group this entire time? Tending to Daredevil's wounds apparently and helping him go home. Yes Daredevil with a sore hand needed all three members of the Fantastic Four to help him. So that was hard sell. It was worth the result though I admit. But wait, not all is happy in FF land. Ben is angry that he didn't have say in his choice to return to being The Thing. He's ticked off and he's had it. He decides to leave the Fantastic Four in the last panel, and it's tough not to sympathize with him after being on the brink of living a normal life again.
Overall, this is one story I shall soon not forget. It did have some groaning moments, especially Reed pulling a rabbit out his hat with the restoration device he conveniently forgot to mention, but I think it's still a nice read.
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