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Post by DE Sinclair on Mar 10, 2015 15:20:05 GMT -5
True this. Humorless, dour, relentlessly grim comics starting around 175 or so. And people loved them. I re-read all of my old X-Men a couple of years ago. I hadn't looked at them in over 20 years. Between back issues and reprints, I've got the first 300 issues, and my plan was to read them all. I had to stop after #205. It had stopped being enjoyable for me right around #175, just as you say, and I couldn't go on. I'm sure the switch to John Romita jr had something to do with it, but things really started getting darker around then. Anyway, it just doesn't seem to matter. They keep getting more and more popular. People eat up all that angst and misery, for some reason. That's about where I gave up too. Later, after I got the 40 Years of X-Men DVD, I read on through the end of what was on there, and wasn't sad about most of what I missed. Quite a slog to get through. Was not a fan of the Outback era.
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Post by fanboystranger on Mar 10, 2015 16:39:52 GMT -5
Count me in with the group that gave up on the X-Men around this time. If there was a good issue, it was generally because they pulled in a remarkable artist and got a virtuoso performance. I'm thinking specifically about Barry Windsor-Smith and Alan Davis.
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Post by paulie on Mar 10, 2015 17:50:34 GMT -5
Count me in with the group that gave up on the X-Men around this time. If there was a good issue, it was generally because they pulled in a remarkable artist and got a virtuoso performance. I'm thinking specifically about Barry Windsor-Smith and Alan Davis .I think X-Men 205 is an absolutely classic and this coming from someone who is not a Wolverine fanboy by any stretch. I always thought he was merely a cool supporting character like Clive Reston in Master of Kung Fu or Jack Norris in Defenders.
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 11, 2015 8:14:52 GMT -5
Count me in with the group that gave up on the X-Men around this time. If there was a good issue, it was generally because they pulled in a remarkable artist and got a virtuoso performance. I'm thinking specifically about Barry Windsor-Smith and Alan Davis .I think X-Men 205 is an absolutely classic and this coming from someone who is not a Wolverine fanboy by any stretch. I always thought he was merely a cool supporting character like Clive Reston in Master of Kung Fu or Jack Norris in Defenders. Actually, I stopped my re-read of the X-Men at #204. I guess I should have gone one issue further! Really, from issue #176-204, the only issues I really thought stood out were #183 and #200, and even those weren't up to the standards of the Claremont/Byrne run.
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 11, 2015 8:16:35 GMT -5
I re-read all of my old X-Men a couple of years ago. I hadn't looked at them in over 20 years. Between back issues and reprints, I've got the first 300 issues, and my plan was to read them all. I had to stop after #205. It had stopped being enjoyable for me right around #175, just as you say, and I couldn't go on. I'm sure the switch to John Romita jr had something to do with it, but things really started getting darker around then. Anyway, it just doesn't seem to matter. They keep getting more and more popular. People eat up all that angst and misery, for some reason. I think the biggest mistake was bringing Rachel back. They had that grim future hanging over them constantly. There were a few good fill-ins though, like that Nightcrawler issue drawn by June Brigman. YES YES YES! That was the beginning of the end for me!
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Post by paulie on Mar 11, 2015 9:48:16 GMT -5
I think X-Men 205 is an absolutely classic and this coming from someone who is not a Wolverine fanboy by any stretch. I always thought he was merely a cool supporting character like Clive Reston in Master of Kung Fu or Jack Norris in Defenders. Actually, I stopped my re-read of the X-Men at #204. I guess I should have gone one issue further! Really, from issue #176-204, the only issues I really thought stood out were #183 and #200, and even those weren't up to the standards of the Claremont/Byrne run. I think you are being more generous than I am. I single out #205 because it features a bravura art job from Barry Smith. Plus, it is a standalone story so Claremont doesn't bludgeon us with sub-plots. I've been planning on taking a Saturday and reading 144-200 for a while now. I'll have to let you know what I think.
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 11, 2015 11:54:33 GMT -5
Actually, I stopped my re-read of the X-Men at #204. I guess I should have gone one issue further! Really, from issue #176-204, the only issues I really thought stood out were #183 and #200, and even those weren't up to the standards of the Claremont/Byrne run. I think you are being more generous than I am. I single out #205 because it features a bravura art job from Barry Smith. Plus, it is a standalone story so Claremont doesn't bludgeon us with sub-plots. I've been planning on taking a Saturday and reading 144-200 for a while now. I'll have to let you know what I think. Good luck. Don't try reading too many at once, though. It could be bad for your psyche.
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Post by paulie on Mar 11, 2015 12:14:44 GMT -5
I think you are being more generous than I am. I single out #205 because it features a bravura art job from Barry Smith. Plus, it is a standalone story so Claremont doesn't bludgeon us with sub-plots. I've been planning on taking a Saturday and reading 144-200 for a while now. I'll have to let you know what I think. Good luck. Don't try reading too many at once, though. It could be bad for your psyche. Oh... I remember... I'm a child of the 80s.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 6:41:44 GMT -5
The series I am currently reading from (still) are: *X-Men (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great). I ended up order the Epic collection because the older MMWs are hard to find for a decent price. *Daredevil (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great) *Flash V2 (and it's AMAZING FUN, just finished up the Porcupine Man arc) *Sub-Mariner MMWs vol. 2 (just exited the stories Stan Lee wrote, but they are still SO MUCH FUN) *Firestorm Gerry Conway's second series. I have been slacking on this one as I need to purchase more issues.
Today I am going to see if I can find the 4 issue mini of the 80's Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner in my long boxes. I swear I have it, but I need to check and pull it out and start it if I do have it.
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Post by paulie on Mar 12, 2015 10:33:08 GMT -5
The series I am currently reading from (still) are: *X-Men (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great). I ended up order the Epic collection because the older MMWs are hard to find for a decent price. *Daredevil (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great) *Flash V2 (and it's AMAZING FUN, just finished up the Porcupine Man arc) *Sub-Mariner MMWs vol. 2 (just exited the stories Stan Lee wrote, but they are still SO MUCH FUN) *Firestorm Gerry Conway's second series. I have been slacking on this one as I need to purchase more issues. Today I am going to see if I can find the 4 issue mini of the 80's Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner in my long boxes. I swear I have it, but I need to check and pull it out and start it if I do have it. I finally got issues 2-4 of the Subby 80s limited series. I'll have to read that this weekend and compare notes with you. My expectations are low. Count me among those who like Stan Lee's Daredevil.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 12, 2015 10:36:38 GMT -5
I used to have that 80s Namor miniseries and it's not bad, as I recall.
Did not like the early Daredevil. Had the first Masterworks but did not keep it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 11:23:34 GMT -5
The series I am currently reading from (still) are: *X-Men (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great). I ended up order the Epic collection because the older MMWs are hard to find for a decent price. *Daredevil (still the Stan Lee stuff, and it's great) *Flash V2 (and it's AMAZING FUN, just finished up the Porcupine Man arc) *Sub-Mariner MMWs vol. 2 (just exited the stories Stan Lee wrote, but they are still SO MUCH FUN) *Firestorm Gerry Conway's second series. I have been slacking on this one as I need to purchase more issues. Today I am going to see if I can find the 4 issue mini of the 80's Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner in my long boxes. I swear I have it, but I need to check and pull it out and start it if I do have it. I finally got issues 2-4 of the Subby 80s limited series. I'll have to read that this weekend and compare notes with you. My expectations are low. Count me among those who like Stan Lee's Daredevil. Yes! Let's make this a thing. I might not have time to read it until tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 11:25:07 GMT -5
I used to have that 80s Namor miniseries and it's not bad, as I recall. Did not like the early Daredevil. Had the first Masterworks but did not keep it. I LOVE Stan Lee's Daredevil. But how much does the character get changed when Stan stops writing him??? I haven't read any other Daredevil (except for some issue that I don't recall the number of) other than silver age/Stan Lee, but I take it the character goes through DRASTIC changes.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 12, 2015 11:57:41 GMT -5
I LOVE Stan Lee's Daredevil. But how much does the character get changed when Stan stops writing him??? I haven't read any other Daredevil (except for some issue that I don't recall the number of) other than silver age/Stan Lee, but I take it the character goes through DRASTIC changes. It's been some years since I read the MMW volume but I think what I didn't like was it was too much soap opera, and not in a relatable way like Peter Parker's personal life. And his villains were lame (The Matador??) The art wasn't too good and I couldn't get into it at all. But I have read one issue from a little later on, when Gene Colan was drawing it (and Lee was still writing), and it was very good. So I'm not sure at which point it improved or changed. My local library has one of the Essentials from that era so if I can get over my aversion to B&W I will check it out. I'm mostly familiar with DD from Miller on, though I've read a couple issues from the Wolfman & Gerber runs.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 12, 2015 12:11:19 GMT -5
I used to have that 80s Namor miniseries and it's not bad, as I recall. Did not like the early Daredevil. Had the first Masterworks but did not keep it. I LOVE Stan Lee's Daredevil. But how much does the character get changed when Stan stops writing him??? I haven't read any other Daredevil (except for some issue that I don't recall the number of) other than silver age/Stan Lee, but I take it the character goes through DRASTIC changes. The Roy Thomas/Gene Colan run - that immediately follows Stan - is my favorite Daredevil run. It's the same character but the plots improve and the art gets sharper as Colan settles into his mature style.
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