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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 3, 2016 11:44:13 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works
1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories)
I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 3, 2016 11:53:34 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works 1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories) I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works. But my point was he doesn't use those as much as you and the myth says, far from it, hence the list I put together I didn't put Lost Girls in the list (as its fairly obvious) But for 1963, Anything Goes and Tom Strong, you mihgt see archetypes, but that's not the same thing, aspecially since he created complete own mythology and background for those. Because then, The Spirit and many other wouldn't be original creations by your considerations...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 3, 2016 11:58:51 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works 1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories) I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works. That is true, he does, but by the same token every superhero ever is pretty much a copy of Superman or Batman. I don't think Moore's creativity can be put in doubt just because he uses known characters, since he often does so in entirely new ways (Lost girls) or is writing obvious pastiches (like 1963 or Tom Strong). Moore does what a good American* comic-book writer should, in decreasing orders of originality : (a) creating brand new stuff; (b) creating stuff derived from familiar properties; (c) using established characters in interesting ways. What he doesn't do very often, bless his bearded head, is (d) using established characters in a boring, been-there-done-that way. *(By that I mean "writing for the American market", even when one is British)
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 3, 2016 12:17:48 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works 1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories) I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works. Miracleman is not a copy of Captain Marvel created by Moore, though. Miracleman-which was still Marvelman when Moore started working on it-was a character strongly based on Captain Marvel, created by Mick Anglo in 1953. Miracleman was not Moore ripping off Captain Marvel, it was Moore reinventing Marvelman.
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 3, 2016 12:21:10 GMT -5
Swamp Thing, hands down. Not only his greatest work, but the greatest comic run in history IMO. I like Moore's run on Swampy, but I really don't think it ranks anywhere near a lot of his earlier work. I still think most of his best stuff was created for the British market between 1982 and about 1984.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 12:31:08 GMT -5
Since we are allowed two votes - I liked his work on the Watchmen and WildCATS and with special consideration his work on SWAMP THING would be my third choice.
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 3, 2016 12:57:24 GMT -5
I see nobody has yet mentioned his work on Doctor Who or Star Wars for Marvel UK. Where are you, Confessor?
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 3, 2016 13:14:42 GMT -5
Having read all the material listed in the poll at least once, I voted for Promethea and Lost Girls. Some missing choice works of his : Big Numbers Neonomicon Providence Brought To Light Judgment Day The Bojeffries Saga And if Pictopia was named, many of his other short stories deserve as much ;) Bojeffries Saga did make the cut. I left out Judgment Day because I thought it was terrible. I almost put Neonomicon. I haven't actually read it. My understanding is that Big Numbers was never finished. Am I incorrect? Or is the partial story just that good? The other two I have not read and will zealously track down. I'd be happy to get more short stories. I think that's my glaring lack in terms of Moore reading. I only read Pictopia recently because it was in some "Best comics of the 1980s" collection I got.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 3, 2016 13:16:58 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works 1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories) I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works. But not in most of his works. Only a small handful.
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Post by Rob Allen on Mar 3, 2016 13:24:21 GMT -5
I've read only Watchmen, Promethea, 1963 and Lost Girls, and liked them all. I intend to read more Moore, but am not voting because I'm unfamiliar with so many of his major works.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 3, 2016 13:25:21 GMT -5
These stories use copies of original works 1963 (copies Marvels SA characters) Anything goes ( Use of Cartoon characters ) Miracle man ( Captain Marvel) Tom Strong ( Doc Savage) Lost Girls ( Fairy tale characters from children stories) I haven't read many of the other stories mentioned. He's Still great but he does use dopplegangers of existing properties in his works. But not in most of his works. Only a small handful. It's not the worst thing in the world. He's still a great writer. Other good writers haven't created anything new either. I'm looking at you Geoff Johns...
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 3, 2016 13:27:45 GMT -5
I went with V for Vendetta and Swamp Thing. In its final form, V for Vendetta magically shows none of the circumstances of its creation. The move from short stories in an anthology to full-length issues, the 10 year gap, the later coloring of intended black and white work. Consistent writing and art throughout, a true sense of craft from the first page to the last, telling a compelling story with compelling characters, featuring some of my favorite comic quotes. "There is no flesh or blood beneath this cloak. There is only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof." I just consider it the perfectly done comic. And if people only read one comic in their life, I think it should be V's story.
Swamp Thing is less clean and pure. It begins in the middle of an established series, the second devoted to the character. Heck, it begins in the middle of a story arc. It ties in heavily to the crazy mess that is the DC Universe. Random people in capes and tights show up left and right. It crosses over with big mega-events. And the artists change because of external considerations. Though he was fortunate to have nothing but excellent artists throughout.
But despite not being all neat and contained, I find it bursting with ideas and heart and... it's happy to be a horror comic, and then a superhero comic the next issue. Then back to horror. Then even more horror. Then it's down to hell. And now it's a love story. Mystical adventures. Back to superheroes. And now it's a cosmic odyssey filled with great science fiction concepts. Occasionally it seems to be more poetry than story. But by the end it really feels like it's the romance that has driven it all along, as our swamp monster finds happiness and the reader finds themselves in tears. It is all things.
And became a roadmap for another of comics greatest series, Sandman.
Ultimately, a vote for Swamp thing may reveal an Amero-centrism. Because it's the mainstream American market most affected by it. It raised the bar for every Marvel/DC comic to follow (higher than almost any of them could reach) and set the standard for modern mainstream American storytelling sensibility. This became the comic to beat, and the comic that basically nothing could.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 3, 2016 13:33:24 GMT -5
While those are the two works I love the most, whenever I find time to reflect on comics that might be a contender for the best comic of all time (whatever that means), I find myself thinking about several works of Alan Moore. Promethea, Lost Girls, From Hell. They are all hard to argue with. Just beautiful works he seemed to put his all into. Promethea in particular seemed to be the work where he really wanted to convey something to the audience. Like with increasing desperation. That he seemed to be shouting at us from some of the most amazing illustrations I've ever seen in comics. Lost Girls also seemed a deeply personal work, and From Hell is this seamless blend of fact and theory and fiction, so that you can't tell where one ends and the other begins. To lay out all the known facts in order and flesh out the details with plausible scenes that form such a compelling narrative is a feat I don't think most people know how to do.
Any one of those represents the height of what comics have accomplished.
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Post by coke & comics on Mar 3, 2016 13:33:56 GMT -5
But not in most of his works. Only a small handful. It's not the worst thing in the world. He's still a great writer. Other good writers haven't created anything new either. I'm looking at you Geoff Johns... But he has created lots and lots and lots of new characters. Like, more than most anybody else in comics outside of the Kirbys of the world.
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 3, 2016 13:48:54 GMT -5
But not in most of his works. Only a small handful. It's not the worst thing in the world. He's still a great writer. Other good writers haven't created anything new either. I'm looking at you Geoff Johns... Why are you looking at Geoff Johns when you were talking about good writers?
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