rick
Junior Member
Why yes I am.
Posts: 40 
|
Post by rick on Jul 20, 2014 11:18:40 GMT -5
I stil think the X-Men didn't truly hit their stride until after the Dark Phoenix Saga, when they had to begin carrying around the repercussions of their adventures in a way far more real and lasting than the death of Thunderbird, and that experience of carrying grief inevitably forced them to grow and to grow together. Man oh man do I disagree. My biggest issue with the X-Men is that they have become so trapped in their own soap opera structure that it's almost impossible to tell a "happy" X-Men story that's anything but ironic or doomed to a tragic twist ending, and that all started with the Dark Phoenix. Not to say it was an overnight change as the second Cockrum run still contains some wonderful stories. It's just that after Dark Phoenix the story balance moved heavier and heavier toward the soap opera aspects. Now I grant you it was at the same time that the X-Men moved from fan popularity into becoming the best selling comic out there, so who am I to judge. But I love those first 50 some odd issues, for me they hit a near perfect balance between action, sub-plot, characterizations and story-telling. I would love to see an X-Men story featuring the "All New" X-Men again, that was the team I loved. |
|
rick
Junior Member
Why yes I am.
Posts: 40
|
Post by rick on Jul 20, 2014 11:20:56 GMT -5
Cool. I have yet to get there as I'm stuck on the first few issues of X-Men. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's run, which is kind of a chore to get through right now. Storm is one of my favorite characters along with Colossus. So I'm anxious to get to that point and finally read all of their wonderful stories together. My advice, treat them like separate series. Sure the later Roy Thomas run has some excellent issues, but you are forcing yourself to slog through one of the weakest books Marvel ever produced. Still, once you get to the issues with the back up origins of the team (30's?), those are good fun. |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jul 20, 2014 11:31:53 GMT -5
I started reading comics in 1975 and I started collecting X-Men with #99. I remember being really confused. I was going through really carefully and reading every caption and word balloon as I tried to figure out who the characters were. It was pretty exciting! I figured it out and was a big fan right from the start! (It helps a lot that #100 and #101 are such great comics!)
I was hooked until about #150, and I read it for a while after that, but I quit about #180 and then read it sporadically until about #204.
Right now, I have The Essential X-Men, Volume Three, from the library, with the end of the first series (#54 to #66), the Beast's series in Amazing Adventures, and a few odds and ends. I just started it, so I'm still reading the storyline that introduced Alex Summers where they fight the Living Pharaoh. So far, I'm a little underwhelmed, but the next issue is the first Neal Adams!
I've never read any of the X-Men from #54 to #66 before, but I was flipping through it a few days ago and WOW! that is some nice Neal Adams art. It might be better than his Avengers work. There's also Sal Buscema art in #66, and that is also some WOWIE ZOWIE! artwork. The Hulk guest stars!
Looking forward to this volume!
|
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Jul 20, 2014 13:40:04 GMT -5
I read UXM from #1 - #350 late last year and early this year, and I have to agree that the period from GSXM #1 to Days of Future Past is by far the strongest and most worthy of reread. Before that, the series didn't really have a true direction and seemed like they were trying lots of different things in hopes they would stick (it improved as the series got closer to cancellation, to be fair).
The post-DoFP era had way too much Kitty Pryde for my liking, which was because she was Claremont's pet, and then the series became bogged down in crossover after crossover and the introduction of very lame, IMO, new members like Dazzler and Longshot, who were soon rammed down our throats constantly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 14:29:36 GMT -5
I stil think the X-Men didn't truly hit their stride until after the Dark Phoenix Saga, when they had to begin carrying around the repercussions of their adventures in a way far more real and lasting than the death of Thunderbird, and that experience of carrying grief inevitably forced them to grow and to grow together. Man oh man do I disagree. My biggest issue with the X-Men is that they have become so trapped in their own soap opera structure that it's almost impossible to tell a "happy" X-Men story that's anything but ironic or doomed to a tragic twist ending, and that all started with the Dark Phoenix. Not to say it was an overnight change as the second Cockrum run still contains some wonderful stories. It's just that after Dark Phoenix the story balance moved heavier and heavier toward the soap opera aspects. Now I grant you it was at the same time that the X-Men moved from fan popularity into becoming the best selling comic out there, so who am I to judge. But I love those first 50 some odd issues, for me they hit a near perfect balance between action, sub-plot, characterizations and story-telling. I would love to see an X-Men story featuring the "All New" X-Men again, that was the team I loved. I'm kind of half way on both points. I think the insulated soap opera involving the huge cast of heroes and villains involved with X-books is what most fans want, but I also agree it's nedlessly dark. I think it's fine, and even probably better for it to have an occasional Dark Phoenix style story, but these are still neon spandex heroes saving the day, and it should be fun. I think less claws and spikes could do the franchise some good. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
|
Post by shaxper on Jul 20, 2014 20:14:52 GMT -5
Man oh man do I disagree. My biggest issue with the X-Men is that they have become so trapped in their own soap opera structure that it's almost impossible to tell a "happy" X-Men story that's anything but ironic or doomed to a tragic twist ending, and that all started with the Dark Phoenix. Not to say it was an overnight change as the second Cockrum run still contains some wonderful stories. It's just that after Dark Phoenix the story balance moved heavier and heavier toward the soap opera aspects. Now I grant you it was at the same time that the X-Men moved from fan popularity into becoming the best selling comic out there, so who am I to judge. But I love those first 50 some odd issues, for me they hit a near perfect balance between action, sub-plot, characterizations and story-telling. I would love to see an X-Men story featuring the "All New" X-Men again, that was the team I loved. I'm kind of half way on both points. I think the insulated soap opera involving the huge cast of heroes and villains involved with X-books is what most fans want, but I also agree it's nedlessly dark. I think it's fine, and even probably better for it to have an occasional Dark Phoenix style story, but these are still neon spandex heroes saving the day, and it should be fun. I think less claws and spikes could do the franchise some good. Except that the very X-Men concept always had tragedy at its core. From either the second or third issue of the original series (I forget which), it was evident that they were neither ever going to win the acceptance of the larger population nor stop the rising tide of evil mutants. Most superheroes just run around trying to save stuff, but the X-Men set themselves upon a mission we knew they could never complete. Tragedy and darkness would inevitably follow. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 20:35:11 GMT -5
But they went a hundred issues without claws and fangs. Same as super hero comics by their very nature are violent, but there's kid friendly cartoon violence, punching bad guys into a vat of acid but nobody ever actually gets hurt, and then there's the kind of violence more fitting in a SAW movie.
|
|
rick
Junior Member
Why yes I am.
Posts: 40
|
Post by rick on Jul 20, 2014 21:28:32 GMT -5
I'm kind of half way on both points. I think the insulated soap opera involving the huge cast of heroes and villains involved with X-books is what most fans want, but I also agree it's nedlessly dark. I think it's fine, and even probably better for it to have an occasional Dark Phoenix style story, but these are still neon spandex heroes saving the day, and it should be fun. I think less claws and spikes could do the franchise some good. Except that the very X-Men concept always had tragedy at its core. From either the second or third issue of the original series (I forget which), it was evident that they were neither ever going to win the acceptance of the larger population nor stop the rising tide of evil mutants. Most superheroes just run around trying to save stuff, but the X-Men set themselves upon a mission we knew they could never complete. Tragedy and darkness would inevitably follow. But that's not really true is it? Sure there is the original two part Sentinel story and yes in the later run Thomas began to play with the idea of conflict, but it wasn't until the Claremont run that "Humans vs Mutants" took center stage. During the early days, the team wasn't that different from the FF. |
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
|
Post by shaxper on Jul 20, 2014 21:32:05 GMT -5
Except that the very X-Men concept always had tragedy at its core. From either the second or third issue of the original series (I forget which), it was evident that they were neither ever going to win the acceptance of the larger population nor stop the rising tide of evil mutants. Most superheroes just run around trying to save stuff, but the X-Men set themselves upon a mission we knew they could never complete. Tragedy and darkness would inevitably follow. But that's not really true is it? Sure there is the original two part Sentinel story and yes in the later run Thomas began to play with the idea of conflict, but it wasn't until the Claremont run that "Humans vs Mutants" took center stage. During the early days, the team wasn't that different from the FF. No, the anti-mutant hysteria is definitely present very early on, mentioned explicitly in X-Men #5 and then emphasized to disturbing effect in #8, causing Beast to temporarily quit the team (went back and checked). |
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jul 20, 2014 21:44:14 GMT -5
Of course, like all of you, I've got the issues or reprints. One of the first comics I bought, and the only X-Men one I'd ever seen, was at an airport, and was completely foreign to me as I knew none of the characters, but the cover was irresistable. It was Uncanny # 111, still one of my favorite X-Men issues.  Yes, this run is so good. I would say from GS #1 to #175. I hung on after that but later traded the issues as JR Jr just didn't fit it and Silvestri, at least early along, didn't either IMO. Of course the two BWS Storm issues were phenomenal, but after Paul Smith left is when the magic faded for me. Next time Marvel puts these on sale I'll buy issues on Comixology so my kids can read the legendary X-Men when they were great. As awesome as Byrne is on the characters, I'd have to say Cockrum is equally, in a different way, awesome. Really love his take on all of them as well. Paul Smith was great too but not definitive like Byrne or Cockrum. |
|
|
|
Post by Randle-El on Jul 20, 2014 23:34:46 GMT -5
The issues just after Dark Phoenix are some of the best X-Men reading, IMO. The Doctor Doom and Arcade story is one of my favorites.
|
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jul 21, 2014 0:58:39 GMT -5
Yeah, and the original Brood after that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 21, 2014 2:11:38 GMT -5
I think Uncanny X-Men is more or less "classic" up till #200 (when Magneto because a good guy). I certainly liked many of the stories that came after this, but it never again returned to the same level of creativity of the first 100 issues of Claremont's run.
I think my first exposure to the X-Men in comics was one of the first printings of The Dark Phoenix Saga graphic novel. I probably first read it around 1987.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 21, 2014 6:02:30 GMT -5
I think Uncanny X-Men is more or less "classic" up till #200 (when Magneto because a good guy). I certainly liked many of the stories that came after this, but it never again returned to the same level of creativity of the first 100 issues of Claremont's run. That's where I'd draw the line as well, gove or take a few issues. Pretty soon after that we'd get the horrendous X-factor concept, the suspension of disbelief-killing return of Jean Grey, and the mutant massacre. The latter was a gutsy move by Chris Claremont, and I admire his decision not to let the book grow stale by forcing an unwanted change, but in the end there was no way you could replace Kitty, Kurt and Peter by Dazzler, Psylocke and Longshot. The stories started being more and more self-referential as well, in contrast to the first few years of the book where new stuff would be thrown at us all the time. The same villains would reappear again and again and again, and continuity grew so complex and involved that it ceased to be fascinating and became a little ridiculous. To wit: here's Cyclops, a man whose eyes emit power beams, and whose father became a space pirate after being abducted by aliens. His girlfriend is a woman who was once replaced by a space creature who took her form and memories, and his ex-wife was a clone of his girlfriend who was also turned into an evil sorceress who slept with his brother. By his ex-wife, he fathered a child who was infected by a virus that turns people into robots, only the infection stopped half-way when the kid was sent to a dystopian future from which he came back as a Cyborg, along his own evil clone who looked more ordinary. Cyclops also has a daughter by the space creature mentioned above, only that daughter was born in an alternative future and she's traveled back to the present as well, before being stabbed by Wolverine and abducted to a different dimension where Hideous TV producers rule the world, a dimension from which she came back with partial amnesia and... hey, are you paying attention? Back in the earlier days, we'd get hit by simpler things like "Wolverine speaks Japanese". It was somehow easier to take in. |
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jul 21, 2014 7:55:40 GMT -5
I hated the Brood stories and pretty much anything to do with the Shi'ar and the Starjammers. Space opera was fine for the FF and Avengers but it always felt imposed on the X-Men who (agreeing with shax here, gods help me) were thematically different from the other teams from inception. And I'm right with RR on the downside of Claremont's penchant for complex, interminable (and frequently ludicrous) subplots.
Cei-U!
I summon the well-aimed criticisms!
|
|
