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Post by foxley on May 27, 2016 17:54:01 GMT -5
Turning Cassandra Cain into the head of the League of Assassins (and making her weirdly articulate at the same time). Backlash against this total derailment of her character and abandonment of years of character development was so severe, DC was forced to do a story rectonning this as a result of drugs and brainwashing (although this still not does not explain how she suddenly acquired full fluency in spoken English).
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 27, 2016 18:03:32 GMT -5
the Conan year one story arc.
So awful that even intensely continuity-sensitive Roy Thomas had to retcon it away from the Conan timeline.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 27, 2016 18:04:22 GMT -5
Ha! Now I learned a new word in english  Hope it comes in handy. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on May 27, 2016 18:06:07 GMT -5
What happened on to Rick Veitch on Swamp Thing is Editorial Sabotage. I guess this and what DC did to the later tomes of LOEG & Tomorrow Stories are the absolute best exemples of intentional sabotage. The batoffice hiring of Larry Hama to handle Detective right after No Mans Land also strikes me as under the table politics in action, as the few issues he contributed to NML are universally considered the weakest ones of the event. It maybe went like this : Bob Shreck new he had struck gold with Greg Rucka, but the higher powers denied him the freshman writer and favored a more experienced one. So Shreck hired one he knew would fail the audience that loved NML so that he could consecutivly hire his first choice, which didn't take much time  It's probably just hazardeous speculation, but who knows, this tactic wouldn't be unheard of, hehe... |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on May 27, 2016 18:33:06 GMT -5
Ha! Now I learned a new word in english Hope it comes in handy. I guess whenever I'll cross the path of a blue suede shoes bird in the streets of Stockholm, Paris or... Well, obviously just wherever! |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on May 27, 2016 18:37:47 GMT -5
Turning Cassandra Cain into the head of the League of Assassins (and making her weirdly articulate at the same time). Backlash against this total derailment of her character and abandonment of years of character development was so severe, DC was forced to do a story rectonning this as a result of drugs and brainwashing (although this still not does not explain how she suddenly acquired full fluency in spoken English). Wow... That sounds like something Chuck Dixon could have wrote, hahaha. I loved Batgirl in NML, and even bought the first year or so of her title under the direction of Petersen/Puckett/Damion Scott. How did it fare beyond the early issues? |
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Post by foxley on May 27, 2016 19:09:00 GMT -5
Turning Cassandra Cain into the head of the League of Assassins (and making her weirdly articulate at the same time). Backlash against this total derailment of her character and abandonment of years of character development was so severe, DC was forced to do a story rectonning this as a result of drugs and brainwashing (although this still not does not explain how she suddenly acquired full fluency in spoken English). Wow... That sounds like something Chuck Dixon could have wrote, hahaha. I loved Batgirl in NML, and even bought the first year or so of her title under the direction of Petersen/Puckett/Damion Scott. How did it fare beyond the early issues? Actually Adam Beechen was responsible for this travesty. I certainly enjoyed the whole run of Cassandra's series. Other people's mileage will naturally vary. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on May 27, 2016 19:46:21 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, Beechen, how did he end up writing comics for DC? Wasn't he some kind of poor man's Brian Wood or something
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Post by chadwilliam on May 27, 2016 20:04:03 GMT -5
Though it must sound like some crazy conspiracy theory, I'm convinced that the Earth 2 Superman's depiction in Infinite Crisis was due entirely to legal issues DC had with the Siegel family at the time. From what I recall, at the time there was some concern that while DC would be able to continue publishing the character and his titles, it was possible that the rights to those elements which debuted in Action Comics 1 (ie. Clark, Lois, the Daily Star, Superman as he was then depicted) would be handed over to the Siegel family. It seemed to me that DC releasing a series in which a character who had been somewhat based upon the Superman found in Action Comics 1 turns out to be a bad guy looking to help wipe out the DC Universe was a petulant dig at the character the Siegel family was laying claim to. It didn't help that a short time before this occurred, Joe Casey wrote an issue of Adventures of Superman in which another character also strongly based upon the Superman of Action 1 shows up and replicates the actions of Superman in that same issue (stopping the execution of an innocent man, beating up a wife beater, etc). The story ends with the current Superman defeating the Siegel and Shuster based character and telling him that he was poorly conceived by a writer with good intentions and had somehow seeped into the "real" world of the DC Universe and needed to leave.
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Post by Pharozonk on May 27, 2016 20:51:51 GMT -5
I think most Batman fans can be lumped into one of two groups: either you love The Untold Legend of The Batman, or you love DKR. I'm a fan of both. Is this like some kind of Red Sox vs. Yankees thing? *ducks before Ish and mrp bust into the thread* |
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Post by foxley on May 28, 2016 2:26:57 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, Beechen, how did he end up writing comics for DC? Wasn't he some kind of poor man's Brian Wood or something Beechen was a writer for some of the DC animated shows and got his start writing comics that way. He's not necessarily a bad writer, but he really botched Cass. I can't tell if he actively dislikes the character, or just doesn't get her or what, but he definitely angered her fans. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222 
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Post by Confessor on May 28, 2016 5:47:30 GMT -5
Three words... One More Day. Few things in comics make me as angry as that editorially mandated piece of c**p. That's the moment when "my Spider-Man" ceased to exist.  On the other hand, and as a counterpoint to the thread starter, I really loved Sins Past...and I say that as a long time, dyed-in-the-wool Gwen Stacy fan. I have a much bigger problem with the existence of a character called Spider-Gwen than I do with anything in Sins Past. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 28, 2016 6:34:04 GMT -5
My thought on Editorial Sabotage is when the creative team has a storyline plotted out that suddenly gets shot down by the editors. One example, from what I recall, would be Emerald Twilight. Gerard Jones had a totally different plotline conceived when the powers-that-be declared that Hal Jordan was going to go crazy and be replaced and gave the story to Ron Marz. While the resultant new character, Kyle Rayner, grew into a worthwhile character himself, it was nothing short of sabotage on the character of Hal Jordan. I never knew that it was a choice between ( I assume) Hal going crazy and being killed. It made for a more interesting story that he was a person that suffered a mental break after what happened to coast city. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 28, 2016 6:38:34 GMT -5
Though it must sound like some crazy conspiracy theory, I'm convinced that the Earth 2 Superman's depiction in Infinite Crisis was due entirely to legal issues DC had with the Siegel family at the time. From what I recall, at the time there was some concern that while DC would be able to continue publishing the character and his titles, it was possible that the rights to those elements which debuted in Action Comics 1 (ie. Clark, Lois, the Daily Star, Superman as he was then depicted) would be handed over to the Siegel family. It seemed to me that DC releasing a series in which a character who had been somewhat based upon the Superman found in Action Comics 1 turns out to be a bad guy looking to help wipe out the DC Universe was a petulant dig at the character the Siegel family was laying claim to. It didn't help that a short time before this occurred, Joe Casey wrote an issue of Adventures of Superman in which another character also strongly based upon the Superman of Action 1 shows up and replicates the actions of Superman in that same issue (stopping the execution of an innocent man, beating up a wife beater, etc). The story ends with the current Superman defeating the Siegel and Shuster based character and telling him that he was poorly conceived by a writer with good intentions and had somehow seeped into the "real" world of the DC Universe and needed to leave. This is such an interesting take on Infinite Crisis. Upon re-reading that mini a few years back, I found it to be a tale that dishonored the original COIE and wasted the various sacrifices that many of the key characters made. No doubt, it left a bad taste in your mouth. But on the bright side, it killed and maimed bad Teen Titans Characters.  |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 28, 2016 6:43:28 GMT -5
Also, Props to Sabongero for using such a sensational and provocative title for this thread. |
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