|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2016 12:09:06 GMT -5
He therefore directed Stern not only to dump Monica as team leader and replace her with Captain America, but to do so in a story that showed Monica failing as team leader, necessitating Cap stepping in to save the day and right the ship. At least, that's what I've heard, I don't know the details exactly first hand of course. But that's my understanding of the situation. Why Gru specifically wanted Monica to be humiliated as part of the change I don't know. Wasn't Monica Chambers the African-American Captain Marvel? Yes she was, and to me she'll always be the post-Mar-Vell Captain Marvel. I think she goes by the name Photon now (which kind of makes more sense than Captain Marvel, but I disliked her being robbed of the name). Monica was a great character. Too bad she was shelved for so long, only to be brought back as a generic Warren Ellis cynical heroine. She was still Ms. Marvel at the time (and soon to be Binary and then Warbird before inheriting the Captain Marvel title). In the infamous storyline that culminated in Avengers #200, she was kidnapped by the son of Immortus who used his machines to make her fall in love with him, allowing him to impregnate her with himself so he could be born in our universe. (Uh??? Yeah, I know... Comic-book science). The poor woman was then drained of her powers and memories by Rogue (prior to her becoming an X-man). When it rains, it pours. |
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jun 3, 2016 12:38:01 GMT -5
This wasn't from the editor, but when my writing partner and i were taken off X-O, the artist--who was the main plotter--told us to write the story into a corner. I think we may have ended our last issue with his head getting cut off.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jun 3, 2016 13:03:47 GMT -5
She was still Ms. Marvel at the time (and soon to be Binary and then Warbird before inheriting the Captain Marvel title). In the infamous storyline that culminated in Avengers #200, she was kidnapped by the son of Immortus who used his machines to make her fall in love with him, allowing him to impregnate her with himself so he could be born in our universe. (Uh??? Yeah, I know... Comic-book science). The poor woman was then drained of her powers and memories by Rogue (prior to her becoming an X-man). When it rains, it pours. Mad props to you for being able to remember and recount all of this info, RR. Nice touch of whoever wrote this repulsive stew of a storyline to have Ms. Marvel fall in love with her rapist just to keep thing romantic. "I'm guessing it wasn't a female writer-editor team working on Avengers," I said with obvious sarcasm. |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2016 13:11:17 GMT -5
She was still Ms. Marvel at the time (and soon to be Binary and then Warbird before inheriting the Captain Marvel title). In the infamous storyline that culminated in Avengers #200, she was kidnapped by the son of Immortus who used his machines to make her fall in love with him, allowing him to impregnate her with himself so he could be born in our universe. (Uh??? Yeah, I know... Comic-book science). The poor woman was then drained of her powers and memories by Rogue (prior to her becoming an X-man). When it rains, it pours. Mad props to you for being able to remember and recount all of this info, RR. Nice touch of whoever wrote this repulsive stew of a storyline to have Ms. Marvel fall in love with her rapist just to keep thing romantic. "I'm guessing it wasn't a female writer-editor team working on Avengers," I said with obvious sarcasm. What is even odder is that the story was partly plotted by the editor-in-chief himself, Jim Shooter, and nobody in the team realized how repulsive the entire thing was! |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jun 3, 2016 13:22:12 GMT -5
"The horror! The horror!"Mad props to you for being able to remember and recount all of this info, RR. Nice touch of whoever wrote this repulsive stew of a storyline to have Ms. Marvel fall in love with her rapist just to keep thing romantic. "I'm guessing it wasn't a female writer-editor team working on Avengers," I said with obvious sarcasm. What is even odder is that the story was partly plotted by the editor-in-chief himself, Jim Shooter, and nobody in the team realized how repulsive the entire thing was! Yikes! And this from the kid who gave us the death of Ferro Lad -- no nobler death in all of comics -- in one of my all-time favorite stories. |
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959 
|
Post by Crimebuster on Jun 3, 2016 14:19:10 GMT -5
Wasn't Monica Chambers the African-American Captain Marvel? It's Monica Rambeau - unless they've changed her name, which is possible - but yes, she was the African-American Captain Marvel.   Didn't yet another female Captain Marvel wind up being raped by her own descendant or some such garbage? Pretty much. As others have said, it was when Carol Danvers was stilled called Ms. Marvel, and it involved a guy mind-controlling her and i mpregnating her so he could then be born into our reality as his own son. This was in Avengers #200. Monica Rambeau joined as Captain Marvel after that, in #227.   When Simonson took over the comic with #290, he was still under a mandate to write Monica out of the book. he ended up having her burn her powers out in a fight, then be so traumatized by the experience that she was afraid to return to duty. So she basically retired and left the team to recuperate mentally and physically.  |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jun 3, 2016 14:43:22 GMT -5
Wasn't Monica Chambers the African-American Captain Marvel? It's Monica Rambeau - unless they've changed her name, which is possible - but yes, she was the African-American Captain Marvel. Didn't yet another female Captain Marvel wind up being raped by her own descendant or some such garbage? Pretty much. As others have said, it was when Carol Danvers was stilled called Ms. Marvel, and it involved a guy mind-controlling her and i mpregnating her so he could then be born into our reality as his own son. This was in Avengers #200. Monica Rambeau joined as Captain Marvel after that, in #227. When Simonson took over the comic with #290, he was still under a mandate to write Monica out of the book. he ended up having her burn her powers out in a fight, then be so traumatized by the experience that she was afraid to return to duty. So she basically retired and left the team to recuperate mentally and physically. Sorry, that's who I was thinking of. Hope I didn't sound as if I were correcting anyone's post. Just was asking if that was the character. I don't know where the hell "Chambers" came from. Maybe because what happened to her was more apppropriate for a chamber of horrors. PS: At least the art on that impregnation scene is top-notch. Whose legs is Carol Danvers sitting on in the lower left? If they're hers, where are they attached to her torso? Yuk. |
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Jun 3, 2016 15:27:50 GMT -5
Backreading in this thread can give me a migraine in regards to the editorial mandate on certain runs and storylines. My favorite time period in the Avengers was the Uncle Rog era or Roger Stern. And this is the first time I read about the sad thing that happened to Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau. I didn't know that was Gruenwald's mandate to have her written off. Captain Marvel grew on me as a character at the time. I liked that she was always written realistically with fears and doubts as a superhero.
I would like to dare say, would anyone here consider the "One More Day" storyarc in the Amazing Spider-Man, an Editorial Sabotage of some sorts. I mean here is Peter Parker making a deal with the character that is the embodiment of Satan himself to wipe away his marriage in order to save his Aunt's life. I know it is polarizing. But I'd appreciate your input on this one. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2016 16:21:01 GMT -5
I would like to dare say, would anyone here consider the "One More Day" storyarc in the Amazing Spider-Man, an Editorial Sabotage of some sorts. I mean here is Peter Parker making a deal with the character that is the embodiment of Satan himself to wipe away his marriage in order to save his Aunt's life. I know it is polarizing. But I'd appreciate your input on this one. Thanks. I do consider it sabotage, but at least in that case Editorial didn't walk over the work of the current creative team. So like "Sins past", it can also be considered "only" a very, very bad idea. (Although I believe Sins past did go against the writer's wishes, as he wanted Gwen's kids to be also Peter's children... something that made far more sense, considering we had access to Gwen's thought balloons during her alleged affair with Osborn). |
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Jun 3, 2016 16:29:17 GMT -5
I would like to dare say, would anyone here consider the "One More Day" storyarc in the Amazing Spider-Man, an Editorial Sabotage of some sorts. I mean here is Peter Parker making a deal with the character that is the embodiment of Satan himself to wipe away his marriage in order to save his Aunt's life. I know it is polarizing. But I'd appreciate your input on this one. Thanks. I do consider it sabotage, but at least in that case Editorial didn't walk over the work of the current creative team. So like "Sins past", it can also be considered "only" a very, very bad idea. (Although I believe Sins past did go against the writer's wishes, as he wanted Gwen's kids to be also Peter's children... something that made far more sense, considering we had access to Gwen's thought balloons during her alleged affair with Osborn). I remember reading it online as well that JMS had it planned out as Gwen and Peter's children and was already written out that way. But then editorial at the eleventh hour decided they wanted to change it as they did not want Peter to be a father as it would age the character. A very contradicting JMS then had no ulterior action as time was crunching the schedule and suddenly shifter gears and Gwen's character had to be unfortunately, assassinated due to the editorial mandate. I think soon after, JMS left Marvel and was doing Brave and the Bold for DC afterwards if I am not mistaken. |
|
|
|
Post by foxley on Jun 3, 2016 16:50:18 GMT -5
I would like to dare say, would anyone here consider the "One More Day" storyarc in the Amazing Spider-Man, an Editorial Sabotage of some sorts. I mean here is Peter Parker making a deal with the character that is the embodiment of Satan himself to wipe away his marriage in order to save his Aunt's life. I know it is polarizing. But I'd appreciate your input on this one. Thanks. I do consider it sabotage, but at least in that case Editorial didn't walk over the work of the current creative team. So like "Sins past", it can also be considered "only" a very, very bad idea. (Although I believe Sins past did go against the writer's wishes, as he wanted Gwen's kids to be also Peter's children... something that made far more sense, considering we had access to Gwen's thought balloons during her alleged affair with Osborn). I consider it sabotage. Didn't Queseda decree something like "Readers will only identify with Spider-Man if he is a loser living in his aunt's basement"? Interesting to know what the EIC thinks about Marvel's readership. I'm surprised he also didn't decree that Reed Richards should become a high school dropout flipping burgers for minimum wage. After all, if reader's cannot identify with peter Parker being gainfully employed and happily married, then surely there is no way they could identify with a billionaire super genius who owns a skyscraper, right? Queseda committed company-wide sabotage by forcing his personal beliefs into every Marvel book. No one is the Marvel universe smokes. All married women who are not mothers must die, in order to make their husbands 'interesting'. And they must die, because divorce is wrong (but making a deal with a demon to eradicate your extremely happy marriage is fine). Presumably if he had ever become a vegetarian, he would have decreed that no Marvel character could eat meat. |
|
|
|
Post by foxley on Jun 3, 2016 16:59:56 GMT -5
I see your BlackHawk and raise you a Hex in the future  And as I recall, that Hex story retconned itself by issue #2 or three! The girl from the future who had been revealed to be a robot was reintroduced as a real girl! I'll dispute Hex as editorial sabotage. Jonah Hex was being cancelled due to falling sales, and Michael Fleisher ( the Jonah Hex writer as far as i am concerned) was offered the opportunity to transform it into a post-apocalyptic nook in an effort to keep the character going. I've never read the Hex series and, being a big fan of Jonah Hex, I'm mighty reluctant to. Turning Hex into Mad Max seems like a rubbish idea and I still don't know why DC didn't just create a new character for this series. Why did it even need to be Jonah Hex in it? If JH was facing cancellation, then they should've just put the thing out of its misery. Post-apolocyptic Mad Max clones were all the rage in the mid-to-late '80s, so I'm sure that the series would've done well or even better without Jonah's name attached to it. I've been working on a complete run of Jonah Hex's Bronze Age appearances in All-Star Western, Weird Western Tales and Jonah Hex for some time now, but when I'm finished perhaps I will investigate this run. I'm also working on completing my Bronze Age Jonah appearances.  However, picking up a full run of Hex was comparatively easy and cheap (it only lasted 18 issues). As with all things related to comics, your mileage may vary. While the setting could have worked with a new central character, the time-travel aspect and Hex's attempts to find a way back to home period were important plot elements (at least in the early issues), and having it be an established character gave it nice sense of history. And Hex is responsible for what is possibly my favourite Joanah Hex-isms (if you'll forgive the coinage) of all-time: "Looks a good time like time to switch to Plan B. Shor do wish I had me a Plan B." (Followed a couple of pages later by "Wait a minute! I think I just found me a Plan B!") |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jun 3, 2016 17:12:16 GMT -5
I do consider it sabotage, but at least in that case Editorial didn't walk over the work of the current creative team. So like "Sins past", it can also be considered "only" a very, very bad idea. (Although I believe Sins past did go against the writer's wishes, as he wanted Gwen's kids to be also Peter's children... something that made far more sense, considering we had access to Gwen's thought balloons during her alleged affair with Osborn). I remember reading it online as well that JMS had it planned out as Gwen and Peter's children and was already written out that way. But then editorial at the eleventh hour decided they wanted to change it as they did not want Peter to be a father as it would age the character. A very contradicting JMS then had no ulterior action as time was crunching the schedule and suddenly shifter gears and Gwen's character had to be unfortunately, assassinated due to the editorial mandate. I think soon after, JMS left Marvel and was doing Brave and the Bold for DC afterwards if I am not mistaken. The big two will forever engage in the " NU52" treatment of restarting their characters in a new way. I admit to not following Spider-man during his married years but I think he's more effective as a single man. I also Think that these characters were not meant to be read for more than 30-40 years like they are. How many times can Kang attack the Avengers? We have read the same type of story over and over again. I guess I'm saying that these characters HAVE to be reset every 20 years or so. |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jun 3, 2016 17:14:33 GMT -5
PS: At least the art on that impregnation scene is top-notch. Whose legs is Carol Danvers sitting on in the lower left? If they're hers, where are they attached to her torso? Yuk.Sorry PH, those legs were drawn by semi comics legend Michael Golden. |
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jun 3, 2016 17:45:49 GMT -5
PS: At least the art on that impregnation scene is top-notch. Whose legs is Carol Danvers sitting on in the lower left? If they're hers, where are they attached to her torso? Yuk.Sorry PH, those legs were drawn by semi comics legend Michael Golden. I don't care who drew them. They still don't fit.  |
|
However, picking up a full run of Hex was comparatively easy and cheap (it only lasted 18 issues).
