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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 22:14:38 GMT -5
Let's hear it for the letterers since it's an option...  Artie! ... Wait, where's Sammy Rosen???  Artie's partner in crime for Silver Age Marvel!  ask and ye shall receive....  -M |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on May 30, 2016 22:40:39 GMT -5
And not so sexy  Beat me to it. |
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Post by tolworthy on May 31, 2016 2:10:08 GMT -5
Let's hear it for the letterers since it's an option... I notice that colourists were not an option.  I always thought of colourists as the sexiest people in comics, and this is why. I remember reading that, at one time back in the day, colourists had to physically cut out colours from acetate, much as in screen printing. Yes, every tiny dot of colour had to be cut out by hand, from plastic sheets made of "rubylith" (someone correct me please!). Possibly four times for four colour printing? That makes drawing look easy. Imagine Jack Kirby drawing some coloured dots to suggest a galaxy of planets and stars: circle. circle, circle, done. Then some unnamed colourist has to cut thick plastic in the shape of every tiny dot (ever tried cutting thick plastic into circles?). What a thankless task, yet one requiring dexterity and good eyesight. Like all thankless tasks requiring dexterity and good eyesight it naturally fell to women, and younger women at that. As a young lonely male I would often fantasise about these young women. They were the last people to touch my beloved comics, the ones whose soft young hands were the most involved in my hobby. Being poorly paid and on a production line I imagined several young women in a small room. I bet they couldn't afford air conditioning back in the day, and working so hard there must have been perspiration and loose clothing. My fantasies were similar to the idea that Cuban cigars were rolled on the thighs of passionate Latin virgins. Deadlines would mean pulses were racing. They would dream of escaping their drudgery, so would take extra care over their appearance. I imagined these comic book sirens brushing their long luscious hair from their eyes, chests heaving in concentration as they wielded their scalpel with frightening speed. It's the kind of thing that embeds deep in the psyche of an impressionable young man and probably explains my later experience with women. Nobody remembers the colourists. But I do. I do. |
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Post by foxley on May 31, 2016 2:44:36 GMT -5
His gal's faces appear too mannish. Especially the Sue Icc posted. And he's one of the few unsexy Sif artists. But some how his Hela is hella sexy. You pretty much nailed my thinking there, adam (except for the bit about Hela). I find Kirby's women always look mannish, when they don't outright look like troglodytes (which is what most of Kirby's figures look like to me, if I'm perfectly honest). But taste is a very personal thing, so for those of you who find Kirby's women sexy, by all means bathe in the sexiness of this:  |
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Post by tolworthy on May 31, 2016 3:34:27 GMT -5
But taste is a very personal thing, so for those of you who find Kirby's women sexy, by all means bathe in the sexiness of this: Thanks, I will! I didn't just read comics as a child, I also read children's fiction (Roald Dahl, Enid Blyton, C S Lewis, Tolkien, all the usual suspects). Without exception the tomboys were sxier than the makeup up brigade. Real girls are varied and action packed. In those stories the girls who liked make up were always vacuous and dull. I have found that to be generally true in real life. Apologies to any female models reading this: I am sure you are the exception. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on May 31, 2016 5:17:22 GMT -5
tolworthy and I were discussing this over in the "Artistic Dopplegangers" thread recently, so I'll just paraphrase what we said over there... Much as I enjoy Jack Kirby's art in general, I think that he had an incredible ability to make his women look like ugly, contorted, overly-butch monsters for the most part. Tolworthy countered by saying that Kirby's women were beautiful by dint of being more realistically rendered than the majority of the "male minds in porn star bodies" that we see in a lot of modern comics. While that may indeed be true, if I were living in a Silver Age comic, I'd definitely be saving myself for a Romita lady -- or even a Ditko one! -- rather than a Kirby "babe".  Any LOVE out there for Sue Richards? Not as drawn by Jack Kirby...no, not really.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 31, 2016 7:22:13 GMT -5
Let's hear it for the letterers since it's an option... I notice that colourists were not an option. I always thought of colourists as the sexiest people in comics, and this is why. I remember reading that, at one time back in the day, colourists had to physically cut out colours from acetate, much as in screen printing. Yes, every tiny dot of colour had to be cut out by hand, from plastic sheets made of "rubylith" (someone correct me please!). Possibly four times for four colour printing? That makes drawing look easy. Imagine Jack Kirby drawing some coloured dots to suggest a galaxy of planets and stars: circle. circle, circle, done. Then some unnamed colourist has to cut thick plastic in the shape of every tiny dot (ever tried cutting thick plastic into circles?). What a thankless task, yet one requiring dexterity and good eyesight. Like all thankless tasks requiring dexterity and good eyesight it naturally fell to women, and younger women at that. As a young lonely male I would often fantasise about these young women. They were the last people to touch my beloved comics, the ones whose soft young hands were the most involved in my hobby. Being poorly paid and on a production line I imagined several young women in a small room. I bet they couldn't afford air conditioning back in the day, and working so hard there must have been perspiration and loose clothing. My fantasies were similar to the idea that Cuban cigars were rolled on the thighs of passionate Latin virgins. Deadlines would mean pulses were racing. They would dream of escaping their drudgery, so would take extra care over their appearance. I imagined these comic book sirens brushing their long luscious hair from their eyes, chests heaving in concentration as they wielded their scalpel with frightening speed. It's the kind of thing that embeds deep in the psyche of an impressionable young man and probably explains my later experience with women. Nobody remembers the colourists. But I do. I do. You're confusing two steps of the process here. The colorist worked for the publisher and used a set of specially coded dyes on a stat of the original art. Those stats were then given to the separators, those (usually) young women who translated them into the three color patterns--red, yellow blue--used to create the printing plates. The separators worked for the printer. Cei-U! I summon the Crayolas (the closest I've ever come to being a colorist)! |
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Post by Red Oak Kid on May 31, 2016 7:32:04 GMT -5
I've heard that Charlton's color separators were middle aged women.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 31, 2016 7:48:10 GMT -5
I know we're discussing the physical attributes of Kirby's women, but I noticed when reading his Black Panther run the other week that the women in that book were frequently talked down to and put in their place. Black Panther could throw the word "woman" around with all the strength of the B or C word. Is that typical of Kirby and I just never noticed it before, or is that specific to the Black Panther run?
Maybe there's a relationship between Kirby's physical and emotional depictions of women.
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Post by foxley on May 31, 2016 7:51:24 GMT -5
No offence to Tolworthy, but the impression I get from his posts is that something being by Kirby immediately makes it perfect and beyond all criticism.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of Kirby's art just leaves me cold.
And you can be tomboyish without looking like a man in drag, which is what most of Kirby's women look like.
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Post by Warmonger on May 31, 2016 8:22:52 GMT -5
God no
Kirby was great and the undisputed high priest of the comics medium...but I always HATED the way he drew women.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 31, 2016 8:24:12 GMT -5
One thing I can say that Kirby did do well (though I've said it already, but now with a contrast) is that in Sif at least, (since Kirby on Thor is the most I've read of his work) he knew how to draw the body of a woman that was a warrior. Whereas other artists, those know for their curvy women (Choi, Terry Dodson, Salvador Larroca, Adam Hughes) that's all they can do is draw curvy, sexy women, no matter the context of the character. It was hard to imagine Shanna tossing up with Velociraptors and T-Rexs when Choi was drawing a peepshow gal in a fur bikini. imgur.com/a/StrGgSo there is a balance somewhere. And I have as hard of time recognizing Kirby's Medusa or Alica as pretty women as I do Choi's Shanna kicking dinosaur ass. I'm a fan of cheesecake, but, if it's all the same I'd like a balance of female warriors looking pretty at the same time, as looking like actual warriors. Makes me wonder, if it doesn't already exist, just how Kirby would have done with Wonder Woman. |
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Post by DubipR on May 31, 2016 8:28:00 GMT -5
His gal's faces appear too mannish. Especially the Sue Icc posted. And he's one of the few unsexy Sif artists. But some how his Hela is hella sexy. Agreed. Probably the second best female Kirby drew. That honor goes to my favorite Marvel character
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Post by Dizzy D on May 31, 2016 8:39:42 GMT -5
One thing I can say that Kirby did do well (though I've said it already, but now with a contrast) is that in Sif at least, (since Kirby on Thor is the most I've read of his work) he knew how to draw the body of a woman that was a warrior. Whereas other artists, those know for their curvy women (Choi, Terry Dodson, Salvador Larroca, Adam Hughes) that's all they can do is draw curvy, sexy women, no matter the context of the character. It was hard to imagine Shanna tossing up with Velociraptors and T-Rexs when Choi was drawing a peepshow gal in a fur bikini. imgur.com/a/StrGgSo there is a balance somewhere. And I have as hard of time recognizing Kirby's Medusa or Alica as pretty women as I do Choi's Shanna kicking dinosaur ass. I'm a fan of cheesecake, but, if it's all the same I'd like a balance of female warriors looking pretty at the same time, as looking like actual warriors. Makes me wonder, if it doesn't already exist, just how Kirby would have done with Wonder Woman. Small nitpick: The art you link is by (Frank) Cho, not to be confused with (Michael) Choi. |
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Post by foxley on May 31, 2016 8:45:12 GMT -5
One thing I can say that Kirby did do well (though I've said it already, but now with a contrast) is that in Sif at least, (since Kirby on Thor is the most I've read of his work) he knew how to draw the body of a woman that was a warrior. Whereas other artists, those know for their curvy women (Choi, Terry Dodson, Salvador Larroca, Adam Hughes) that's all they can do is draw curvy, sexy women, no matter the context of the character. It was hard to imagine Shanna tossing up with Velociraptors and T-Rexs when Choi was drawing a peepshow gal in a fur bikini. imgur.com/a/StrGgSo there is a balance somewhere. And I have as hard of time recognizing Kirby's Medusa or Alica as pretty women as I do Choi's Shanna kicking dinosaur ass. I'm a fan of cheesecake, but, if it's all the same I'd like a balance of female warriors looking pretty at the same time, as looking like actual warriors. Makes me wonder, if it doesn't already exist, just how Kirby would have done with Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman by Kirby:  (Am I the only one who looks at this and sees stiff and unnatural poses?) |
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Artie's partner in crime for Silver Age Marvel!
I always thought of colourists as the sexiest people in comics, and this is why. 
