shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 7, 2016 15:15:00 GMT -5
I'm just doing some backreading, and it's some great thought-provoking posts here over the last several hours alone. I just wanted to add a little to the discussion. I suppose the gist of "The American Way" is adhering to the principles of the most famous phrase in the Declaration of Independence, "... life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Although "the pursuit of happiness" was changed by Thomas Jefferson which he took from John Locke's "life, liberty, and property." Perhaps he should have just left John Locke's original trinity, and left "property" there instead of "pursuit of happiness." I'm joust going out on a limb here, as the majority and almost all Americans would partially consider in their belief that the "pursuit of happiness" also includes the pursuit of wealth and status, like having a luxury car, a luxurious house, etc. Of course the "pursuit of happiness" can mean many things to different people. But if "property" was left in place in that trinity, then Thomas Jefferson was also exercising his right to "life, liberty, and property" as he owned 200+ human beings who themselves were not allowed by Thomas Jefferson to pursue their own happiness. This helps to explain why Americans rate lower in happiness and overall life satisfaction than most other nations in the world. Really, that's my big regret about The Constitution. While the Declaration of Independence prioritizes life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, The Constitution only concerns itself with life and liberty. At no time do any of our appointed leaders ask themselves "How do we raise overall quality of life for our citizens?" No one in the American government concerns themselves with the pursuit of the public's happiness. |
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Post by dupersuper on Jun 7, 2016 20:55:54 GMT -5
And, actually, I'm not sure Superman would have worked as well with Britain  |
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Post by dupersuper on Jun 7, 2016 20:56:34 GMT -5
No, I think that's fair. American nationalism isn't much different than being raised in a religious faith. Many of us end up questioning that faith, some of us decide it is illogical and walk away from it, but there's always a small part of us inside that feels lost/empty for having walked away and, thus, the faith can be rekindled in brief emotional moments. That certainly describes me when I see Chris Reeves explain that he fights for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way." I believe in the ideals America was based upon, but I have no idea what "The American Way" is and generally have distaste for politicians who invoke America in an effort to stir up jengoistic fervor. I'm also a borderline agnostic/athiest who gets moved when visiting church with my family. My brain and my heart don't always understand each other. But I do think Nationalism can be a good thing. If you live in a country where the government hears and responds to the voice of the people, then, ideally, you should be proud of the shape that government takes based in some small part on your own personal will, right? I don't think most Americans have a voice in their government at all, but I'd like to believe other countries do. There is a scene in Independence Day where the American president shows up and tells what is left of the world's armed forces (who have apparently been sitting around in the middle of a desert doing nothing because there wasn't an American to lead them) how they will save the world, and from this point on July 4th will not only be America's Independence Day, but also the world's. I guessing that scene caused great feelings of patriotism in the US (and was intended to be serious by the filmmakers). When I saw it an Australian cinema, it was greeted by howls of laughter and hoots of derision. You've gotta' admit, though; Pullman killed it. |
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Jun 7, 2016 21:03:45 GMT -5
I'm just doing some backreading, and it's some great thought-provoking posts here over the last several hours alone. I just wanted to add a little to the discussion. I suppose the gist of "The American Way" is adhering to the principles of the most famous phrase in the Declaration of Independence, "... life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Although "the pursuit of happiness" was changed by Thomas Jefferson which he took from John Locke's "life, liberty, and property." Perhaps he should have just left John Locke's original trinity, and left "property" there instead of "pursuit of happiness." I'm joust going out on a limb here, as the majority and almost all Americans would partially consider in their belief that the "pursuit of happiness" also includes the pursuit of wealth and status, like having a luxury car, a luxurious house, etc. Of course the "pursuit of happiness" can mean many things to different people. But if "property" was left in place in that trinity, then Thomas Jefferson was also exercising his right to "life, liberty, and property" as he owned 200+ human beings who themselves were not allowed by Thomas Jefferson to pursue their own happiness. This helps to explain why Americans rate lower in happiness and overall life satisfaction than most other nations in the world. Really, that's my big regret about The Constitution. While the Declaration of Independence prioritizes life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, The Constitution only concerns itself with life and liberty. At no time do any of our appointed leaders ask themselves "How do we raise overall quality of life for our citizens?" No one in the American government concerns themselves with the pursuit of the public's happiness. Well said! |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 7, 2016 21:28:59 GMT -5
There is a scene in Independence Day where the American president shows up and tells what is left of the world's armed forces (who have apparently been sitting around in the middle of a desert doing nothing because there wasn't an American to lead them) how they will save the world, and from this point on July 4th will not only be America's Independence Day, but also the world's. I guessing that scene caused great feelings of patriotism in the US (and was intended to be serious by the filmmakers). When I saw it an Australian cinema, it was greeted by howls of laughter and hoots of derision. You've gotta' admit, though; Pullman killed it. I am sending you a cake of soap so that you can wash out your mouth after that statement. And I had been so proud of you.  |
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Post by dupersuper on Jun 7, 2016 21:37:09 GMT -5
You've gotta' admit, though; Pullman killed it. I am sending you a cake of soap so that you can wash out your mouth after that statement. And I had been so proud of you. You dissin' Lonestar? |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 7, 2016 21:52:31 GMT -5
I am sending you a cake of soap so that you can wash out your mouth after that statement. And I had been so proud of you. You dissin' Lonestar? "We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore." -- President Thomas Whitmore |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Jun 7, 2016 22:06:05 GMT -5
I am sending you a cake of soap so that you can wash out your mouth after that statement. And I had been so proud of you. You dissin' Lonestar? I think he gave you the raspberry jam. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 7, 2016 22:08:33 GMT -5
I think he gave you the raspberry jam. I had to look up Lonestar. I thought he was talking about the comic book place.  I saw Spaceballs once, when it came out in 1863. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Jun 7, 2016 22:11:32 GMT -5
I think he gave you the raspberry jam. I had to look up Lonestar. I thought he was talking about the comic book place. I saw Spaceballs once, when it came out in 1863.  |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 7, 2016 22:14:56 GMT -5
I had to look up Lonestar. I thought he was talking about the comic book place. I saw Spaceballs once, when it came out in 1863. I thought I had removed that picture of myself from the Internet. PS: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Jun 7, 2016 22:17:55 GMT -5
PS: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. Sure. Pretend you didn't have to google that line |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 8, 2016 6:14:15 GMT -5
PS: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. Sure. Pretend you didn't have to google that line You caught me. Ten minutes I'll never get back. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Jun 8, 2016 8:13:21 GMT -5
Sure. Pretend you didn't have to google that line You caught me. Ten minutes I'll never get back. Ten whole minutes?  |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jun 8, 2016 9:09:44 GMT -5
First of all, I don't think anyone "won" WWII, everybody lost but business. Anyone claiming to have won such a clusterfuck is IMHO doing himself a disservice.
As a frenchman, this is highly interesting discussion as we over here mostly always picture USA as a republic as opposed to a true democracy. Sure, the USA has become a representative democracy if not a constitutional democracy since 1965. This actually dillutes the meaning of the word democracy by a lot, since in the latter case, you could as well say a constitutional republic and it would mean the same for most americans.
The USA surely haven't been the first or sole selfless nation to try to impact values of hope, freedom and justice to the modern world, and that is probably at the core of some of the dissension here. Business and charlatans usualy are the builders of nations throughout history, and the USA is no stranger to that (Ther Will Be Blood is a remarquable metaphor of this), so in the end, a sentence as "the American Way" or the british or french one, it's just a slogan, it is advertising. Hell, at it's core it was explicitly concieved as such. AS we want and hope to project a selfless picture of our people despite the dramatic foundations of all nations, when the times command it, broad and empty slogans emmerge. The fact that it makes us "feel" something positive while watching Richard Donner's film has more to do with his talent then with the supposed meaning of the slogan.
If it invokes patriotism, fine, that's the productive result, but anything that lands into nationalism becomes a tool of darkness as nationalism mandates ignoring facts in favor of emotion.
Most european countries also had segregation during the XXth century, mostly towards women, and most are republics at their core (France is at its fifth version of a republic, officialy), but I guess the making of a democracy is when its highest principle surpasses the one of a mere republic. So we all more or less attempt at being a democracy, but it wil remain just an ideal, especially in this modern world where few industries control the media (freedom of media is required in democracy).
So all in all, when I read "the american way" in a comic book, I don't laugh, i justunderstand it as a more or less required slogan, a very usefull tool mainting the illusion or hope of a democracy.
I must just add that of very recent history, i was struck when a GOP representative told the truth on national television : when the GOP's RNC still was hopping its rules would prevent Trump from getting the nommination despite popular vote, he candidly justified this by saying "we're not a democracy". I know it's not as simple as that, but If you had a european grill of analysis, this would just make it even clearer that republicans want to live in a republic and democrats in a democracy. In the end, I guess i just proves how anachronic "the american way" or "JLA" are to this new global world. It almost feels like this is all a dada theatre play where all the spectators are ok with believing the fairy tale as long as it's good and entertaining (Superman), less so when it's not (ID4).
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