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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 25, 2014 14:13:57 GMT -5
Identity Crisis is definitely godawful. Out of curiosity, what makes Final Crisis worse than Identity Crisis for you? Beware. Every time I expressed an opinion about Final Crisis on "the board that shall not be named" that wasn't "he's a genius", it ended poorly. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 25, 2014 14:22:43 GMT -5
Identity Crisis is definitely godawful. Out of curiosity, what makes Final Crisis worse than Identity Crisis for you? Final Crisis is a bit of a narrative mess. Morrison indulges in some "everything but the kitchen sink" storytelling that has some nice panels but meanders into incoherency much of the time. I suppose if I liked it more I could spend more time trying to figure out what's going on, but I don't like it that much.
I can't really be more specific because I haven't read it for a while and I got it from the library and so I can't refer to it. But I do remember thinking it was one of the worst comics I'd ever read.
It was nice to see Kamandi. I'll concede that.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 25, 2014 14:24:02 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what makes Final Crisis worse than Identity Crisis for you? Beware. Every time I expressed an opinion about Final Crisis on "the board that shall not be named" that wasn't "he's a genius", it ended poorly. I'll say this for Grant Morrison: He's better than Jeph Loeb.
(With the possible exception of Final Crisis.)
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 25, 2014 14:24:41 GMT -5
The final half dozen issues of Metal Men turned them human and on the run from the police.To save Metal Men,ditch the metal. Nope. They adopted human disguises and went on the run. They weren't actually transformed into humans (as they were, once, back in the Kanigher/Andru run). Cei-U! I summon the virtual white out! |
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Post by Pharozonk on Jul 25, 2014 14:27:15 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what makes Final Crisis worse than Identity Crisis for you? Beware. Every time I expressed an opinion about Final Crisis on "the board that shall not be named" that wasn't "he's a genius", it ended poorly. Don't worry, I didn't like Final Crisis either.  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 25, 2014 14:37:19 GMT -5
The final half dozen issues of Metal Men turned them human and on the run from the police.To save Metal Men,ditch the metal. Nope. They adopted human disguises and went on the run. They weren't actually transformed into humans (as they were, once, back in the Kanigher/Andru run). Cei-U! I summon the virtual white out! My metal memory needs a tune-up |
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Post by the4thpip on Jul 25, 2014 14:52:58 GMT -5
Probably not 10 years old yet, but the Teen Titans runs by Sean McKeever (who is capable of much better, like Gravity), and Adam Beechen (who is not - everything I read by him stunk: Batgirl, Countdown, Countdown to Adventure...)
Marvin and Wendy from the Superfriends cartoon really deserved better.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 25, 2014 14:55:13 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what makes Final Crisis worse than Identity Crisis for you? Final Crisis is a bit of a narrative mess. Morrison indulges in some "everything but the kitchen sink" storytelling that has some nice panels but meanders into incoherency much of the time. I suppose if I liked it more I could spend more time trying to figure out what's going on, but I don't like it that much.
I can't really be more specific because I haven't read it for a while and I got it from the library and so I can't refer to it. But I do remember thinking it was one of the worst comics I'd ever read.
It was nice to see Kamandi. I'll concede that.
I have a bit more patience for Final Crisis than you, but I think it was ultimately a failure of craft. I'm not just referring to the multiple artists (which definitely hampered the series) or some of the unexplained references, but Morrison's pacing, in particular, creates an intentionally jarring narrative mess. The first few issues are almost glacially slow, then as time collapses to a singularity, you are blasted with scene after scene that demand further explanation. Morrison likens it to "channel surfing", but I think in his theoretical zeal to experiment with a new method of comics storytelling, he missed out on the central truth that the story needs to be paramount. It's not that events didn't make sense as some detractors would have it, but that they weren't explored enough to form a coherent and satisfying narrative. In one sense, I admire the ambition to try something different on such a high profile project, but I also think it was almost a rejection of comics storytelling for something that is ostensibly a rejection of another medium altogether, as "channel surfing" is in some sense a rejection of the directed narrative forms of the tv medium by people who can't bear to turn the tv off. It's almost a comic for readers who hate the medium but can't look away for whatever reason, which is why event comics, regardless of quality, sell like gangbusters.
I love the end, though. Superman singing away the sickness that has plagued the universe is a beautiful moment.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 25, 2014 14:57:42 GMT -5
Beware. Every time I expressed an opinion about Final Crisis on "the board that shall not be named" that wasn't "he's a genius", it ended poorly. I'll say this for Grant Morrison: He's better than Jeph Loeb.
(With the possible exception of Final Crisis.)
The only thing Loeb has going for him is that Tim Sale and Art Adams like to work with him. He's a mediocre writer who is elevated by the work of his artists. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 25, 2014 15:05:15 GMT -5
I'll say this for Grant Morrison: He's better than Jeph Loeb.
(With the possible exception of Final Crisis.)
The only thing Loeb has going for him is that Tim Sale and Art Adams like to work with him. He's a mediocre writer who is elevated by the work of his artists. I'm underwhelmed by Morrison most of the time. But at least he has All-Star Superman, which is superb.
Loeb has lots of pin-up pages drawn by Tim Sale and Jim Lee.
(Allow me to add that I love most of Hush. But it is pretty stupid. I don't love it for the writing.) |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 25, 2014 16:15:57 GMT -5
Final Crisis is a bit of a narrative mess. Morrison indulges in some "everything but the kitchen sink" storytelling that has some nice panels but meanders into incoherency much of the time. I suppose if I liked it more I could spend more time trying to figure out what's going on, but I don't like it that much.
I can't really be more specific because I haven't read it for a while and I got it from the library and so I can't refer to it. But I do remember thinking it was one of the worst comics I'd ever read.
It was nice to see Kamandi. I'll concede that.
I have a bit more patience for Final Crisis than you, but I think it was ultimately a failure of craft. I'm not just referring to the multiple artists (which definitely hampered the series) or some of the unexplained references, but Morrison's pacing, in particular, creates an intentionally jarring narrative mess. The first few issues are almost glacially slow, then as time collapses to a singularity, you are blasted with scene after scene that demand further explanation. Morrison likens it to "channel surfing", but I think in his theoretical zeal to experiment with a new method of comics storytelling, he missed out on the central truth that the story needs to be paramount. It's not that events didn't make sense as some detractors would have it, but that they weren't explored enough to form a coherent and satisfying narrative. In one sense, I admire the ambition to try something different on such a high profile project, but I also think it was almost a rejection of comics storytelling for something that is ostensibly a rejection of another medium altogether, as "channel surfing" is in some sense a rejection of the directed narrative forms of the tv medium by people who can't bear to turn the tv off. It's almost a comic for readers who hate the medium but can't look away for whatever reason, which is why event comics, regardless of quality, sell like gangbusters.
I love the end, though. Superman singing away the sickness that has plagued the universe is a beautiful moment.
I believe that Final Crisis was an example of a writer who becomes convinced of his own brilliance, especially as compared to the rabble that he's doing the favor of writing for, and is allowed free reign on a major project without any editors reining him in. His "channel surfing" technique in any other project or medium would be termed "bad writing" as he flung what should have been major events (like shrinking the entire world's population and freezing them in ice cube trays) at the audience like they were being shot out of a machine gun, only to be immediately forgotten. We will also need to disagree on the ending. Superman magically singing the world's troubles away was, bar none, the stupidest thing I've ever seen in comics. And that's in a medium where Superman was once a witch doctor who married Jimmy Olson to an ape. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 25, 2014 16:20:15 GMT -5
I'll say this for Grant Morrison: He's better than Jeph Loeb.
(With the possible exception of Final Crisis.)
The only thing Loeb has going for him is that Tim Sale and Art Adams like to work with him. He's a mediocre writer who is elevated by the work of his artists. He's a spectacularly good visual writer who figures out writes to the strengths of his artists better than damn near anyone else in the industry. Did you see those painted flashback pages in Hush? Who ELSE woulda figured that Jim Lee could do that, and do that very well? I think he gets a bad rap because (A) he's a terrible plotter, and (B) a lot of current comics fans read comics purely as plot and ignore everything else. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 25, 2014 16:22:45 GMT -5
I believe that Final Crisis was an example of a writer who becomes convinced of his own brilliance, especially as compared to the rabble that he's doing the favor of writing for, and is allowed free reign on a major project without any editors reining him in. This seems to happen to Morrison a lot. Did you read "Supergods"? |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 25, 2014 16:24:36 GMT -5
I believe that Final Crisis was an example of a writer who becomes convinced of his own brilliance, especially as compared to the rabble that he's doing the favor of writing for, and is allowed free reign on a major project without any editors reining him in. This seems to happen to Morrison a lot. Did you read "Supergods"? No, I haven't. From what people have said on the boards, it didn't seem opinions were very high about it. Would you recommend it? |
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Post by thebeastofyuccaflats on Jul 25, 2014 16:29:13 GMT -5
SuperGods' sucking honestly has bugger-all whatsoever to do with Morrison's skill level as a writer and is more down to his very 'creative' view of comics history & creator-rights.
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