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Post by foxley on Jul 27, 2014 2:35:47 GMT -5
Four pages in and no mention of Chuck Austen's storyline where the villain's plan was to make Nightcrawler the Pope, then expose him as a mutant while using contaminated communion wafers to disintegrate worshippers and convince the faithful that the Rapture (which the Catholic Church does not even believe in) had started? Are we sure Chuck Austen isn't an alias for Jack Chick? That sounds bad. But I haven't read X-Men in decades.
Is Chuck Austen the one that's the target of frequent mockery on the Internet because of a lot of dumb ideas in X-Men? Like mutants can't get AIDS?
And that's just ridiculous that he equated the Rapture with the Roman Catholic Church. That is some Grade A stupidness there. Seriously lazy writing that he should never live down.
Yeah, that was Austen. Brian Cronin did a piece on the whole 'mutants can't get AIDS thing' at Comics Should be Good, which you can read here: goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2014/05/22/things-that-turned-out-bad-mutants-cant-get-aids/In fact, just about everything in the 'Things That Turned Out Bad' column could be fodder for this thread. |
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Post by the4thpip on Jul 27, 2014 4:23:03 GMT -5
I liked Zero Hour's tie ins and the Armagededdon 2001 Annuals. Millennium and Genesis would be the two I least want to read again. Has anyone mentioned Countdown yet? Or am I the only person in the forum that will admit to reading it. I mentioned it in passing when I referred to Adam Beechen as a writer. For a series that Didio had announced as "52 done right", it could hardly have missed more opportunities or been have more ill conceived. |
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Post by the4thpip on Jul 27, 2014 4:30:46 GMT -5
I liked Zero Hour's tie ins and the Armagededdon 2001 Annuals. Millennium and Genesis would be the two I least want to read again. Has anyone mentioned Countdown yet? Or am I the only person in the forum that will admit to reading it. I read some of countdown... mostly for the 'space team' of Kyle Rayner, Starfire and Adam Strange... it was OK.. I don't remember it that well, but I don't remember it being particularly bad. That wasn't "Countdown" which later changed the title to "Countdown to Infinite Crisis" (which it really wasn't.) The "space team" stories were in the much better "52." And then there was a really bad sequel in a separate mini series called "Countdown to Adventure" which Adam Beechen clearly wrote as a love letter to 8th grader fan fiction.   |
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Post by the4thpip on Jul 27, 2014 4:37:48 GMT -5
Yes. It might be THE worst Piece of junk ever written. Worse than ID crisis, Sins past and Emerald Twilight combined. There are some that really hate what Bendis did to the Avengers, to those people I'd like to give them Teen Tony and Thor walking around topless talking like a longshoreman. Don't forget Mutant Wasp! I've not read any of Final Crisis, but I didn't think Identity Crisis was that bad... it wasn't good, but it wasn't 'worst ever'.. just overly dark and gritty for the sake of it, IMO. But it wasn't just "overly dark and gritty." If it had been a well-crafted mystery featuring classic DC characters that was overly dark and gritty, fewer people would complain. Instead, it was a mystery that made no sense ("I just wanted to scare her, but I brought a flame thrower to burn her dead body just in case") and walking plot devices cos playing as DC superheroes (or how else do you explain the Deathstroke/JLA fight?). They had a weak, badly edited story that they made significant by adding rape. And that I consider one of the most shameful things DC ever did. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 27, 2014 6:42:21 GMT -5
Don't forget Mutant Wasp! I've not read any of Final Crisis, but I didn't think Identity Crisis was that bad... it wasn't good, but it wasn't 'worst ever'.. just overly dark and gritty for the sake of it, IMO. But it wasn't just "overly dark and gritty." If it had been a well-crafted mystery featuring classic DC characters that was overly dark and gritty, fewer people would complain. Instead, it was a mystery that made no sense ("I just wanted to scare her, but I brought a flame thrower to burn her dead body just in case") and walking plot devices cos playing as DC superheroes (or how else do you explain the Deathstroke/JLA fight?). They had a weak, badly edited story that they made significant by adding rape. And that I consider one of the most shameful things DC ever did. I think any story that tramples on the characters that we loved as kids, will always draw the intense emotions that ID Crisis did. Emerald Twilight might have had the most hate of any story because the long time fans of Hal Jordan Couldn't accept his grief turning him into a mass killer. I wasn't too happy with the fall Of Hank Pym but I can appreciate his historical canon being used to support his mental breakdown. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 27, 2014 6:45:03 GMT -5
I will admit that I've never had any attachment to Sue and Ralph Dibney so, on that level, I don't have a problem with the assaults but maybe I will have to reread the story again to see if it holds up. At the time, I felt the month to month tension to be awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 7:18:36 GMT -5
I'll take "Songs That Went Straight Into Chubby Checker's Reject Pile" for 100, Alex. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 27, 2014 9:36:39 GMT -5
I will admit that I've never had any attachment to Sue and Ralph Dibney so, on that level, I don't have a problem with the assaults but maybe I will have to reread the story again to see if it holds up. At the time, I felt the month to month tension to be awesome. Same here... I suspect I'd like it alot less now that I've read a bit of Silver Age DC. I'm pretty sure I started to read 'Countdown to Adventure' and dropped it... I definitely remember being disappointed about it. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 27, 2014 9:38:10 GMT -5
I think any story that tramples on the characters that we loved as kids, will always draw the intense emotions that ID Crisis did. Emerald Twilight might have had the most hate of any story because the long time fans of Hal Jordan Couldn't accept his grief turning him into a mass killer. I wasn't too happy with the fall Of Hank Pym but I can appreciate his historical canon being used to support his mental breakdown. Probably true... but I liked Emerald Twilight, I thought it made sense and was a well done story. I also like Hal as the Spectre.... I know most don't, though. The part that I think was truly silly is when they made Parallax into a giant yellow imaginary dragon. |
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Post by Pharozonk on Jul 27, 2014 9:55:11 GMT -5
But it wasn't just "overly dark and gritty." If it had been a well-crafted mystery featuring classic DC characters that was overly dark and gritty, fewer people would complain. Instead, it was a mystery that made no sense ("I just wanted to scare her, but I brought a flame thrower to burn her dead body just in case") and walking plot devices cos playing as DC superheroes (or how else do you explain the Deathstroke/JLA fight?). They had a weak, badly edited story that they made significant by adding rape. And that I consider one of the most shameful things DC ever did. I think any story that tramples on the characters that we loved as kids, will always draw the intense emotions that ID Crisis did. Emerald Twilight might have had the most hate of any story because the long time fans of Hal Jordan Couldn't accept his grief turning him into a mass killer. I wasn't too happy with the fall Of Hank Pym but I can appreciate his historical canon being used to support his mental breakdown. I'm 100% with you on Emerald Twilight. I kind of like the fall of Hank Pym though and I say that as huge Hank Pym fan. The ending is really powerful and really shows Hank becoming a stronger character. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 27, 2014 13:12:54 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, that's been Morrison's modus operandi for basically ever. I feel like I'm swimming against the tide, I really enjoyed Morrisons JLA, X-men, and All Star Superman. There aren't many writers that hit all the time. Oh, the man has many more fans than detractors, and stories like We3 and All Star Superman have often been cited as excellent comics; so it's not as if he's not talented. Personally, what I've read of his is a mixed bag. I liked the new direction he gave the X-Men for a while, even if the Magneto reveal at the end wasn't very well handled. Oh, yes, I was totally fooled and never suspected that Xorn wasn't who he claimed to be. What's more, the commentary about old revolutionaries failing to adapt to the times was spot on. But the Magneto Xorn turned out to bear no relation to the character who had been evolving over decades at Marvel; he was just a supervillainous cypher with Magneto's face. Of the highly popular JLA run, I only read "Rock of ages". It is one of the few trade paperbacks I regret buying (the other being the first Lobo book patched up from bits and pieces of many comics. And I do own Identity Crisis, so I have my share of critically-panned books!!!). Reading that, I felt I was re-reading "Days of future past" and all other stories about a future timeline gone wrong that has to be set right. I was also very disappointed by Arkham Asylum, which I was waiting for eagerly before it came out because of the McKean art. It had a lot of name dropping, references to Egyptian symbols that aren't half as cryptic as the writer thinks, and Batman doing stupid things like stabbing his own hand with a sliver of glass to… what? Snap out of a funk? It wasn't very clear. And Batman was described as easily unbalanced, which he shouldn't be. (I did like the April fool's joke by the Joker, though. Very unexpected). I wouldn't call Morrison a bad writer, by any means. Just not one I'd personally rank with the best either, and in that I realize I'm in the minority. Archie Goodwin has wowed me far more often, even in very simple tales. |
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Post by gothos on Jul 27, 2014 14:55:37 GMT -5
Don't forget Mutant Wasp! I've not read any of Final Crisis, but I didn't think Identity Crisis was that bad... it wasn't good, but it wasn't 'worst ever'.. just overly dark and gritty for the sake of it, IMO. But it wasn't just "overly dark and gritty." If it had been a well-crafted mystery featuring classic DC characters that was overly dark and gritty, fewer people would complain. Instead, it was a mystery that made no sense ("I just wanted to scare her, but I brought a flame thrower to burn her dead body just in case") and walking plot devices cos playing as DC superheroes (or how else do you explain the Deathstroke/JLA fight?). They had a weak, badly edited story that they made significant by adding rape. And that I consider one of the most shameful things DC ever did. Good summation; IC has my vote. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 27, 2014 15:18:39 GMT -5
Here's what really got me about Identity Crisis.
It wasn't even in the actual story. It was in the introduction to the collected edition. (I forget who wrote it.)
The writer of the intro was claiming the writing on Identity Crisis was just so great. (It was undeniable.) And he used the treatment of Ralph Dibny as his example. "Because before IC, Ralph Dibny wasn't anybody's favorite character. But just look at what a great job they did in IC by depicting Ralph after he found out his wife was raped, mind-wiped, killed and burnt to a crisp! He sure is a great character now! You really care about the character now!" (I'm paraphrasing.)
Yeah, what an improvement! After Identity Crisis, this formerly unpopular character is now so popular that he has his own magazine and movie deals and so on! Just because the writer on IC juiced up the character by raping and killing his wife! So much better!
Ugh! To me, that attitude embodied what was wrong with Identity Crisis ... and what's wrong with so much in DC event comics.
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Post by the4thpip on Jul 27, 2014 15:22:47 GMT -5
It's also pretty much by definition the "women in refrigerators" phenomenon: A male character's story made more interesting at the expensive or a female character's tragic fate.
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Post by Pharozonk on Jul 27, 2014 15:35:11 GMT -5
There's also this:  |
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