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Post by comicsandwho on Nov 3, 2018 17:44:38 GMT -5
Well, they addressed the 'American actor playing an American' issue in the following episode. Cool! I didn't watch the next one yet I have 'Noth'ing further to add.
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Post by spoon on Nov 4, 2018 0:24:23 GMT -5
I think the show has gotten better as the season has progressed and episode 4 (Arachnids in the UK) was the best of the season so far. I mentioned before that I thought the premiere was solid, but not great. The improved is so noticeable that it reinforces my belief that the praise some of the public gave to Jodie Whittaker's first episode was overboard. I want her to succeed, but I want my praise to be honest.
I think we've gotten to know the Companions better and seen them become more differentiated in terms of personality (not just occupation/age/race/gender). I also think the habits/characteristics of the Thirteenth Doctor have developed well, so we get the good mix of continuity and individuality. I like that we've seen two color variations to the shirt (the blue that was in the original costume reveal and the reddish pink), just like Tennant's doctor used to wear a brown suit sometimes and navy blue at other times.
I agree that the accent of the actress playing Rosa Parks was not that great. I looked up the actor who played the bus driver, and he's Canadian. That may be why he seemed to do a better job (at least to me). At times it was a bit preachy, but frankly I think the racism in the era was so extreme that how they actually were might seem like a caricature. Obviously, there are gradations to bigotry; everyone isn't cranked up to ten.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 0:40:48 GMT -5
As for the supposedly hamfisted or one dimensional portrayals of racism in the Rosa Parks episode, I would disagree-watch footage form the time in things like the Eyes on the Prize documentary and there is nothing in the portrayals from the Who episode I haven't seen in real life footage of actual people form that time and how they were portrayed. I've used Eyes on the Prize several times when teaching the Civil Rights Movement, and for me, the portrays in the Rosa Parks episode were pretty spot on and could have been based on folks seen in the docuseries.
-M
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 4, 2018 12:41:56 GMT -5
It's funny, I was thinking their research was to watch Eyes On the Prize. It's part the too much run around stretching credibility to the breaking point for me on that one, sorry, it made a bit of a joke of the importance of what Rosa Parks did I thought. I'd be glad if it really did something to educate and sensitize, I felt it was less likely to because of what I see as flaws to it. It could have, should have been better with the quality of acting and visual detail. The bad racists were too cookie cutter, but even there you do get a disgust reaction toward the real situation people lived then, I will credit it for that. The writing was a bit lazy to me... maybe more than a bit. Not exactly a bad job but for the running around competing with the meddler to make it happen, that was cheapening the history like the old one (now missing) where original Doctor William Hartnell supposedly suggests the idea of the wooden horse to get into Troy... or if say someone had talked Ghandi into being strictly non-violent. Not good.
I'm sure there were over-the-top insanely racist people openly behaving menacingly, but that episode of Doctor Who pretty much showed only those kinds of people, and it's just not that simple... anyone like that is so easy to spot as stupid; does anyone learn anything from it? It's the more subtle unspoken racism a majority are cowed into that really keeps it going, fighting over some old flag or statue put up in the '50s by great great grandaughters or some thing (over putting people first) even today that is reality. Caricatures and straw men are toothless and easy to knock down, make righteous Doctor Who speeches against, but it's a disservice to young viewers to show things as simplistically as they did even with the quality nuanced acting. Family and religion also played a big part in keeping stupid racist stuff going, it takes a lot to break from some of that, even just to the degree Elvis did (he famously got his ass chewed off by Ira Louvin once and the way things were wasn't really able to directly confront him). Doctor Who shows things as being a 'just say no' and fight racism but if it were close to that simple there'd be none of the torch marching and all kinds of backwards junk turning up still today and getting a pass somehow from so many. How's the judging and name-calling working when that's what the people you're against do? It's easy when you have a cartoon racist in front of you clearly being a horrible idiot, but reality is still not being able to get a taxi when someone is wearing a suit and tie!
I really hope this makes sense. I'm against all extremes and simplifications. I am for listening and learning. To really teach you usually have to meet someone half way towards wherever they might be, and a kid watching in Tennessee or Alabama isn't going to go from zero to my grandparents were scum (and I wouldn't want them to either), they're going to go to this liberal propaganda tv show is all lies or something perhaps!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 4, 2018 13:46:38 GMT -5
It's subtler now, sure...but back then? Not so much. They really were very open with their racism and very over the top with how they showed it. Does it look almost cartoony to our modern sensibilities? It certainly can... but that's just how it was; your average townsperson in the deep south really did have more in common with some mustache twirling cartoon bad guy than any of the nuanced villains we're used to.
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Søren
Full Member
I trademarked my name two years ago. Swore I'd kill any turniphead that tried to use it
Posts: 321
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Post by Søren on Nov 4, 2018 15:01:31 GMT -5
Really great episode tonight, theme is one seen before but had enough twists that made it entertaining, liked the sets too and the alien .
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 5, 2018 11:35:10 GMT -5
Really great episode tonight, theme is one seen before but had enough twists that made it entertaining, liked the sets too and the alien . It was really fun, pretty much the Doctor versus Stitch...which is a mashup that shouldn't have worked but actually turned out pretty excellently.
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Post by comicsandwho on Nov 7, 2018 13:52:23 GMT -5
The creature reminded me a bit too much of the 'gremlin on the wing' from the Twilight Zone 'Nightmare at 20,000 Feet'...and the hysterical screaming of one character reminded me a bit of Shatner from that episode! This story simply had too many of the 'guest characters who act like companions', and squeezed out the actual companions.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 7, 2018 14:14:45 GMT -5
I thought of Stitch myself so might be hard to convince me someone who works on the show didn't have him a little bit in mind. I thought there was some decent logic to this story but others have disagreed saying nothing made sense to them. Possible spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched it? > I figured out that they could draw the gremlin to eat that bomb when the sonic screwdriver was re-power from proximity to the anti-matter creation chamber.
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Post by comicsandwho on Nov 7, 2018 19:18:02 GMT -5
The 'pregnancy' subplot was seemingly only there so Ryan and Graham could delve into Ryan's feelings about his father. Otherwise, it was every cliched 'going into labor' scene from every sitcom ever.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 8, 2018 9:20:20 GMT -5
I don't think I like the Spider episode as much as others did... It definitely had a sixties Who vibe, which is good, but the moral message and the Trump-analogue were a bit too much... and I 100% agree with the message, I just don't think we need to be beat in the head with it. Pretend Trump guy(or maybe he was meant to be pretend Mark Cuban? he did say he hated Trump..) did have a reasonable American accent though, so that was good .
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Post by spoon on Nov 9, 2018 0:28:07 GMT -5
I don't think I like the Spider episode as much as others did... It definitely had a sixties Who vibe, which is good, but the moral message and the Trump-analogue were a bit too much... and I 100% agree with the message, I just don't think we need to be beat in the head with it. Pretend Trump guy(or maybe he was meant to be pretend Mark Cuban? he did say he hated Trump..) did have a reasonable American accent though, so that was good . I think the hotel was supposed to be Trumpian. It was a way to lampoon Trump indirectly, but have more freedom in the storytelling. By having Trump referred to as a different person, it allowed the show to mock Trump's essence without having to imitate his appearance and persona exactly. Also, it allowed them the freedom to put the character in situations Trump couldn't be (e.g., without a large Secret Security detail). Finally, it gives a pretext to deny it's Trump if Trump fans complain. I don't know if you were joking, but the actor has a reasonable American accent because he is American. It's Chris Noth, who was one of the cops during early seasons of Law & Order. I know he was also on Sex and the City.
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Post by comicsandwho on Nov 9, 2018 2:09:15 GMT -5
The hotel guy both was and wasn't Trump. It's almost a shame the 'Whoniverse' has to have 'fake Trump' as well as the real one(safe from Daleks at least for the time being, but two of him? Sheesh...) At any rate, it was a bit much...it would be like Earth-1 in the '70s having a Johnny Carson when Metropolis already had Johnny Nevada.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 9, 2018 15:52:58 GMT -5
I don't think I like the Spider episode as much as others did... It definitely had a sixties Who vibe, which is good, but the moral message and the Trump-analogue were a bit too much... and I 100% agree with the message, I just don't think we need to be beat in the head with it. Pretend Trump guy(or maybe he was meant to be pretend Mark Cuban? he did say he hated Trump..) did have a reasonable American accent though, so that was good . I think the hotel was supposed to be Trumpian. It was a way to lampoon Trump indirectly, but have more freedom in the storytelling. By having Trump referred to as a different person, it allowed the show to mock Trump's essence without having to imitate his appearance and persona exactly. Also, it allowed them the freedom to put the character in situations Trump couldn't be (e.g., without a large Secret Security detail). Finally, it gives a pretext to deny it's Trump if Trump fans complain. I don't know if you were joking, but the actor has a reasonable American accent because he is American. It's Chris Noth, who was one of the cops during early seasons of Law & Order. I know he was also on Sex and the City. I was pretty sure he was, but I didn't recognize him or anything (I don't watch much TV). I totally get it, I just worry the political commentary is a bit of a slippery slope.. it can be too much in alot of cases.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Nov 17, 2018 4:44:01 GMT -5
I love the way an emotionally tragic human story was used in "Demon in the Punjab." I wasn't expecting that. I didn't actually watch the episode because I'm not much of a Dr Who fan, but there's been a little bit of controversy over that storyline on this side of the Atlantic. I believe it played fast and loose with history, by suggesting or implying that the partitioning of India into India and Pakistan was the fault of the British. That's completely untrue: the British were totally opposed to dividing the country up in that way. It was the Indian Muslims -- principally their leader, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who became the first governor of Pakistan -- that insisted on it. As the Raj came to an end and Britain prepared to hand India back to its people, the British knew that partition would cause a huge humanitarian crisis and unnecessary bloodshed...and that's exactly what happened. They resisted and fought against partition, but Jinnah was adamant about the creation of the Muslim state of Pakistan. Many high profile Indias, such as Nehru and Gandhi, we're also against partition.
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