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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 16, 2021 21:32:38 GMT -5
The Excelsior had a remarkably ugly design. The Constitution class was superior in every way, as far as looks go.
There. I said it!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 17, 2021 5:26:14 GMT -5
Don't necessarily find it ugly, but yeah, it is an odd design. The lower section reminds me of a washtub. They should have given Captain Sulu a cooler looking ship.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 20, 2021 21:16:30 GMT -5
I episode left in season one.... done with the mirror universe. They resolved one issue (by making it top secret, I guess) but created another (The Klingons... winning, but not unified? That's a BIG change in just 10 years). It's entertaining enough, but there are plot holes to drive a truck through (even more so than usual). I wish they would stop with the fan fiction-y nods to other stuff so I could just pretend it's not Star Trek... I think that would make me happier.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 21, 2021 12:22:06 GMT -5
After seeing Enterprise mentioned here, and since it's right there on Netflix, I gave it a chance this week, starting with episode 1.
Welllllllllll... credit where credit is due, I enjoyed the first four episodes, much to my surprise! (I usually deeply dislike "prequel"-type things, since they tend to cater to fans and refer to things that would only be "discovered" in later series, thus necessitating convoluted continuity fixes or making no sense at all).
Evaluation checklist ->
Cons :
- The theme song. I don't insist on a startrekky fanfare, but that country-sounding melody seems really out of place. Perhaps an American audience would like it better than I do.
- The series is all but a few episodes old and we already have ships with cloaking devices. How could Kirk and Co have been taken aback by the Romulans having one in Balance of terror if the technology had been encountered before?
- The ship being called Enterprise. To my knowledge, there had never been any mention of a starship named Enterprise predating NCC-1701. Even the numerous displays of past Enterprises (photos and models seen in other series and films) had omitted it.
- T'Pol is way too sexy in her form-fitting costume, and the shower scene from an early episode was voyeuristic and unnecessary.
- A "temporal cold war"? Ugh... Enough with time travel already.
Pros :
- I thought I would find another Vulcan first officer derivative, but T'Pol is not played as just a female Spock; I find her portrayal original enough to add something genuinely new to the show. Her subdued Vulcan prejudices coupled with her innate fairness makes for an interesting combination.
- The crew as a whole is sympathetic. I know many fans do not like Mary Sues, but I want my heroes to be good people, honest, brave and good at what they do. If I want neuroses, I'll go watch a Woody Allen movie.
- The retro-yet-futuristic look of the old Enterprise works much better, in my opinion, than the retro-yet-futuristic look of the Star Wars prequels. There are a lot of really good designs in there.
- The episodes I've seen were really in the spirit of TOS, with intriguing SF concepts that did not always require bad guys or even real crises.
- There's humour in there, and no sense of ponderousness that might come from having to carry the Star Trek torch.
- Aliens don't speak English. That's got to be my favourite part of the show so far! The ship's interpreter pulling her hair out because she has to explain something vital to an alien brings real dramatic tension at very little cost!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jan 21, 2021 14:34:07 GMT -5
- T'Pol is way too sexy in her form-fitting costume, and the shower scene from an early episode was voyeuristic and unecessary. I've not watched the series (I'm only interested in TOS and the attendant movies), but I do know who T'Pol is. Due to her good looks, pictures of her in her tight-fitting uniform often pop up on pop culture websites. The appearance of the character has always made me chuckle: oh look, it's hot Spock!  Also, good to know that wildly unrealistic looking and disproportionately large silicone breast enhancements still exist in the 22nd century!  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 21, 2021 14:55:43 GMT -5
- T'Pol is way too sexy in her form-fitting costume, and the shower scene from an early episode was voyeuristic and unecessary. I've not watched the series (I'm only interested in TOS and the attendant movies), but I do know who T'Pol is. Due to her good looks, pictures of her in her tight-fitting uniform often pop up on pop culture websites. The appearance of the character has always made me chuckle: oh look, it's hot Spock! Also, good to know that wildly unrealistic looking and disproportionately large silicone breast enhancements still exist in the 22nd century! The Horta were big on silicone! (Or was that silicon? I forget...) |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 21, 2021 18:03:47 GMT -5
After seeing Enterprise mentioned here, and since it's right there on Netflix, I gave it a chance this week, starting with episode 1. Welllllllllll... credit where credit is due, I enjoyed the first four episodes, much to my surprise! (I usually deeply dislike "prequel"-type things, since they tend to cater to fans and refer to things that would only be "discovered" in later series, thus necessitating convoluted continuity fixes or making no sense at all). Evaluation checklist -> Cons : - The theme song. I don't insist on a startrekky fanfare, but that country-sounding melody seems really out of place. Perhaps an American audience would like it better than I do. - The series is all but a few episodes old and we already have ships with cloaking devices. How could Kirk and Co have been taken aback by the Romulans having one in Balance of terror if the technology had been encountered before? - The ship being called Enterprise. To my knowledge, there had never been any mention of a starship named Enterprise predating NCC-1701. Even the numerous displays of past Enterprises (photos and models seen in other series and films) had omitted it. - T'Pol is way too sexy in her form-fitting costume, and the shower scene from an early episode was voyeuristic and unnecessary. - A "temporal cold war"? Ugh... Enough with time travel already. Pros : - I thought I would find another Vulcan first officer derivative, but T'Pol is not played as just a female Spock; I find her portrayal original enough to add something genuinely new to the show. Her subdued Vulcan prejudices coupled with her innate fairness makes for an interesting combination. - The crew as a whole is sympathetic. I know many fans do not like Mary Sues, but I want my heroes to be good people, honest, brave and good at what they do. If I want neuroses, I'll go watch a Woody Allen movie. - The retro-yet-futuristic look of the old Enterprise works much better, in my opinion, than the retro-yet-futuristic look of the Star Wars prequels. There are a lot of really good designs in there. - The episodes I've seen were really in the spirit of TOS, with intriguing SF concepts that did not always require bad guys or even real crises. - There's humour in there, and no sense of ponderousness that might come from having to carry the Star Trek torch. - Aliens don't speak English. That's got to be my favourite part of the show so far! The ship's interpreter pulling her hair out because she has to explain something vital to an alien brings real dramatic tension at very little cost! I actually really loved Enterprise, the cast was great and there were some genuinely good sci-fi stories told. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 21, 2021 20:21:47 GMT -5
After seeing Enterprise mentioned here, and since it's right there on Netflix, I gave it a chance this week, starting with episode 1. Welllllllllll... credit where credit is due, I enjoyed the first four episodes, much to my surprise! I actually really loved Enterprise, the cast was great and there were some genuinely good sci-fi stories told. That's good news! I'll probably end up watching the whole thing, then. I just hope we don't see too many aliens "first" met in TNG and DS9... (and pleaaaaaaase, no Borg!!!) |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 21, 2021 23:20:51 GMT -5
Enterprise largely stayed away from that... at least what I watched(I vaguely remember a ferengi episode, but there was some weirdness that made it so it made sense). I HATE time travel, so when the temporal cold war because the main plot, I kinda gave up. The characters are fantastic though.. it worth watching for that.
Totally agree about the theme song, it was terrible (though my wife liked it). I didn't have a problem with it being called Enterprise... the name has a long ship history... having it not mentioned before is not any weirder than Archer himself never being mentioned before.... that kinda thing just comes with the territory in retcon shows.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 22, 2021 10:11:40 GMT -5
I actually really loved Enterprise, the cast was great and there were some genuinely good sci-fi stories told. That's good news! I'll probably end up watching the whole thing, then. I just hope we don't see too many aliens "first" met in TNG and DS9... (and pleaaaaaaase, no Borg!!!) I think I remember a borg episode, but I remember it playing out alright as it spun off of First Contact. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Jan 22, 2021 10:17:45 GMT -5
Enterprise largely stayed away from that... at least what I watched(I vaguely remember a ferengi episode, but there was some weirdness that made it so it made sense). I HATE time travel, so when the temporal cold war because the main plot, I kinda gave up. The characters are fantastic though.. it worth watching for that. Except for Malcolm, who seemed to become more and more of an unredeemable jerk as the series progressed. I can't recall where I've left off in my viewing (the show never offended me; it just started to bore me), but I didn't get the sense this was going to change before the series ended. I actually LOVE the first version of the theme song. Not my type of music at all, but these were not my type of people either. They were American heartland post-9/11 America rules jengoists, and the music captured that beautifully and sincerely. When they changed it up in later seasons, though, I couldn't stand it. It makes sense, really. The TOS theme song captured both the adventure and the wildness of Kirk, the TNG theme captured the refined dignity of Picard, and the DS9 and Voyager themes just sort of tried to replicate the energy of the TNG theme. Enterprise's theme WAS Archer at his core. Whether or not Archer was a likeable captain is a whole other question. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 22, 2021 21:00:33 GMT -5
WOw.. watched the last episode.. that was the fastest version of point a genie back in the bottle ever. Apparently someone realized the issues I did, and with some (barely) logical sweeps. brought things around to what would be more of a logical status quo.
I think overall I'm glad I watched it, but it I don't think I'd go back to it without a really good reason, just to much random stuff that didn't make sense.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 23, 2021 19:11:33 GMT -5
First big hiccup with Enterprise, for me, after half a dozen episodes or so. Due to the writers not understanding the most basic principles of human evolution and natural selection, our good crew has been turned into genocidal maniacs.
In that episode, two humanoid races (one more advanced than the other) share a pre-warp technology world in peace. The advanced one suffers from a disease that turns out to be genetic in nature. Dr. Phlox manages to find a cure, but he and the captain decide not to distribute it, for fear of disturbing the "normal" way of things, which might lead the less advanced species to eventually replace the other as the planet!s dominant one.
What a lot of hogwash. What a heinous message. What a deeply paternalistic view of life.
There is no such thing as a "better" species. Species are more or less adapted to their environment, and because environments change all the time, today's top dog is tomorrow's old news. There is nothing "good" about the process; it just is. There is nothing noble in letting a species die because another has the potential to replace it; of course another species will take the place of whichever one frees an ecological niche. Helping one do so is just playing God, which is exactly what the crew is supposedly trying to avoid.
Much was made of how Homo sapiens became the dominant species on Earth instead of the neanderthals; well, so what? Neanderthals (which weren't that numerous to begin with) didn't even disappear, by the way, since their descendants are still extant: everyone out of Africa has some neanderthal DNA. The only decent thing to do for the crew of the Enterprise was to save the people they encountered, and leave things to develop on their own.
Science has always been a problem in Star Trek; not when the plot resorts to using made-up magical particles or minerals like tetryons or dilithium crystals, but when it tries to use actual scientific concepts in ridiculous ways (as when, just to cite one example, "the introns got reactivated" in an episode of TNG. As Pauli would have said, that's not even wrong!")
I still like the characters, though, and Phlox's cheerfulness is always a plus.
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Post by brutalis on Jan 23, 2021 19:58:28 GMT -5
And now with the Kelvin timeline, Enterprise can be explained as NOT being part of the TOS universe BUT INSTEAD a precursor for the altered timeline of Discovery and the Abrams Trek-verse.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 23, 2021 23:20:29 GMT -5
Wait, Discovery is part of the movie universe? Really? That certainly removes a few of my issues, for sure.
Because I'm now in a Star Trek sort of mood, I read the first trade of 'Star Trek: year 5' that's currently running. I haven't loved most of the IDW stuff (I really don't think Scott Tipton gets Trek, and he writes alot of it).. but this one was fantastic. A different writer that DOES clearly get the TOS vibe... really good art (with the Enterprise rendered with some computer trickery that really works well), and great stories for the first three, anyway. They're using the history in a really good way, so far. Definitely will read the the next trade soon!
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