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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 25, 2021 20:49:05 GMT -5
This question was posed in the new STAR TREK EXPLORER magazine: Any thoughts? I thoroughly disliked the idea of Enterprise when I heard of it. Didn't follow it at all. Then I binge-watched it on Netflix last winter. I loved it. Much, much, much more than the generally dismal Voyager, or what I've seen of the retcon-rife Discovery. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 25, 2021 20:52:22 GMT -5
I liked Enterprise... I liked Tripp, T'Pol and Archer just fine. I hate time travel, though, and they tried to hard to tie things in, but overall I liked it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2021 9:27:09 GMT -5
I preferred VOYAGER over ENTERPRISE, to be honest. ENTERPRISE looked like it was trying too hard - and lacked that special something.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 26, 2021 12:19:48 GMT -5
Voyager is perfectly fine; it competes with TNG as my favorite post TOS series.
Enterprise was pretty weak tea, I thought: very poorly executed with mostly bland characters and uninteresting and/or unoriginal stories.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2021 13:10:14 GMT -5
It all felt very uninspired to me. There were good moments. I had my doubts about them doing a Borg episode, but “Regeneration” pleased me. But the characters didn’t seem enthusiastic about being pioneers, they seemed as ‘excited’ as I am when I go to the shop for bread. There wasn’t that sense of excitement.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 26, 2021 20:16:14 GMT -5
Voyager is perfectly fine; it competes with TNG as my favorite post TOS series. Enterprise was pretty weak tea, I thought: very poorly executed with mostly bland characters and uninteresting and/or unoriginal stories. We must definitely agree to disagree! Voyager was so awful (in my opinion, that is) that even as a die-hard Star Trek fan I gave it up before it ended, watching the (disappointing) final episode only years later. Desperate for relevance, it tried to recycle the Borg concept only to water it down to Budweiser level, and ended up with fan fiction-level material. In its defence, the show had to deal with a status quo severed from all the background material established by the previous series. That was bold move, but it set a bar too high for the show's creators' abilities. Enterprise, meanwhile, gave us a series that recaptured the feeling of exploration of TOS and managed to have fun while doing so! I didn't much care for the retcon aspect of the ahow, but what it tried to achieve, it pulled off quite successfully! (I say that without denigrating individual tastes. I recognize that we don't all like the same things, and have friends who actually prefer Voyager to *gasp* DS9). |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Dec 27, 2021 5:47:34 GMT -5
(...) (I say that without denigrating individual tastes. I recognize that we don't all like the same things, and have friends who actually prefer Voyager to *gasp* DS9). You have wise friends. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 27, 2021 6:22:39 GMT -5
Voyager is perfectly fine; it competes with TNG as my favorite post TOS series. Enterprise was pretty weak tea, I thought: very poorly executed with mostly bland characters and uninteresting and/or unoriginal stories. We must definitely agree to disagree! Voyager was so awful (in my opinion, that is) that even as a die-hard Star Trek fan I gave it up before it ended, watching the (disappointing) final episode only years later. Desperate for relevance, it tried to recycle the Borg concept only to water it down to Budweiser level, and ended up with fan fixtion-level material. In its defence, the show had to deal with a status quo severed from all the background material established by the previous series. That was bold move, but it set a bar too high for the show's creators' abilities. Enterprise, meanwhile, gave us a series that recaptured the feeling of exploration of TOS and managed to have fun while doing so! I didn't much care for the retcon aspect of the ahow, but what it tried to achieve, it pulled off quite successfully! (I say that without denigrating individual tastes. I recognize that we don't all like the same things, and have friends who actually prefer Voyager to *gasp* DS9). I think both Voyager and Enterprise were trying too hard, Voyager trying hard to stand out from the crowd at a time when DS9 was in its prime and both series were being measured against the success of TNG, and Enterprise trying too hard to go after the beer guzzling everyman who didn't typically watch Trek, didn't care much about science and diplomacy, and thought Team America: World Police was an unironic thriller. The single most important ingredient for me in a Trek series is characters. TOS had iconic ones, Next Gen's were arguably even better (Picard, Wesley, and Dr. Crusher took a season or two to get there, Troi took five seasons to get there, and Riker never got there, but the cast was genuinely out of this world by Season 4), and while DS9's lead characters took a while longer while to win me over, it's supporting cast got better and better each season (Rom, Morn, Leeja, Nog, the Grand Nagus, Kassidy, Martok, Gowron, Vic Fontaine, and the delightfully wretched Gul Dukat, Kai Winn, and Weyoun). Voyager had two excellent characters: Harry Kim and The Doctor. I also think Janeway was written very well, but I just didn't like Kate Mulgrew. Allegedly, Sue Gibney (Dr. Leah Brahms from Next Gen) was the original basis for Janeway--I would have enjoyed that A LOT more. As for (ugh) Tuvoc, Neelix, and Kes...yuck. And I just haven't seen enough Seven of Nine episodes to judge her either way. And Enterprise was even worse. The entire cast felt far too post-9/11 redneck " 'Murica ". As I've noted here previously, it was also Trek's least diverse cast. Everyone is American except one British dude. The black guy has the lowest rank, the main woman is put in her place at least once per episode for thinking that 1) she is superior to the men and 2) that she isn't romantically attracted to ALL of them, and the t&a is on the level of late night basic cable. I used to adore Scott Bakula, but he brings nothing to the role as captain. Really, all this series had was Phlox and Hoshi. As a result, my personal library (because I STILL believe in owning DVDs and blu rays and actively distrust streaming services) consists of TOS, the TOS movies, Next Gen, and DS9. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only Trek that matters. One of these days, I'll try Discovery, Picard, and all the other new ones, but I doubt they'll make it into my personal canon. And hey, if you like any post-DS9 series more than I do, I think that's great. I don't want to convince anyone to enjoy something less, but I have tried to give both Voyager and Enterprise multiple chances, and I'm positive at this point that I'm personally not missing much. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 7:00:17 GMT -5
For me, ENTERPRISE is to other Star Trek shows what the non-canonical NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is to the other 007 films: perfectly serviceable and watchable in some ways, but pales in comparison to the rest (insert analogy of your choice if you’re not a Bond fan).
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 27, 2021 11:04:14 GMT -5
(...) (I say that without denigrating individual tastes. I recognize that we don't all like the same things, and have friends who actually prefer Voyager to *gasp* DS9). You have wise friends. Wise friends of dubious tastes!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 15:36:39 GMT -5
As a result, my personal library (because I STILL believe in owning DVDs and blu rays and actively distrust streaming services) consists of TOS, the TOS movies, Next Gen, and DS9. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only Trek that matters. One of these days, I'll try Discovery, Picard, and all the other new ones, but I doubt they'll make it into my personal canon. In an issue of STARBURST, from around 2019, I read that CBS licensed STAR TREK to both Paramount and Bad Robot. And that part of the agreement meant that the incarnations had to differ visually by 25%. How do you define 25%? Isn’t one person’s 25% another person’s 30%? Reason I mention it is that when you said you may try the other shows one day, well certainly as far as DISCOVERY is concerned, it does not feel like it’s taking place within the Trek Universe that I grew up with. It’s the Earth-2 to original Trek’s Earth-1, if you will. And I guess that 25% licensing agreement may be one reason why. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 28, 2021 19:59:07 GMT -5
As a result, my personal library (because I STILL believe in owning DVDs and blu rays and actively distrust streaming services) consists of TOS, the TOS movies, Next Gen, and DS9. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only Trek that matters. One of these days, I'll try Discovery, Picard, and all the other new ones, but I doubt they'll make it into my personal canon. In an issue of STARBURST, from around 2019, I read that CBS licensed STAR TREK to both Paramount and Bad Robot. And that part of the agreement meant that the incarnations had to differ visually by 25%. How do you define 25%? Isn’t one person’s 25% another person’s 30%? Reason I mention it is that when you said you may try the other shows one day, well certainly as far as DISCOVERY is concerned, it does not feel like it’s taking place within the Trek Universe that I grew up with. It’s the Earth-2 to original Trek’s Earth-1, if you will. And I guess that 25% licensing agreement may be one reason why. I think that was proven to be just a rumor, but yeah there is a different visual style to Discovery and for my tastes that's just fine as although I enjoy the original series the designs of the ship and its technology are definitely tied to the 60's where as Discovery gives us a more modern look at what we think the future might look like. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 28, 2021 23:28:55 GMT -5
I REALLY wanted to like Voyager, but it was just terrible, IMO. DS9 I've tried 4 times to get to what you guys say is the 'good' part... I just haven't been able to wade through the drek to get there.
I'd say I liked Enterprise better than both of them. I've never been one to care about a diverse cast, and for Trek inparticular, the whole point is that stuff doesn't matter anymore.
Discovery was decent once it found it's stride, but it's clearly an alternate universe. It simply doesn't fit with the others. Also TOO MUCH MIRROR UNIVERSE. It was great for that one episode, and it was fine to see the other cast check it out, but its really overdone by this point. (only the 1st two seasons, no idea what the new far future set up is like yet).
I thought Picard was pretty good... a few things I really liked, a few I didn't, but it was a good move forward.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 29, 2021 0:37:21 GMT -5
I REALLY wanted to like Voyager, but it was just terrible, IMO. DS9 I've tried 4 times to get to what you guys say is the 'good' part... I just haven't been able to wade through the drek to get there. I couldn't stand DS9 when it first aired. And, when folks told me to watch it again because it would get good around season 4, I still didn't like it until Season Two. But now that I've seen it all the way through, it's amazing how good the first season is once you understand all that the series ultimately becomes. Unlike Next Gen, where the first season is choc full of regrettable missteps, DS9 never changes its scope; it just evolves it. So everything done in the first season still FITS beautifully with what comes later. Well, almost everything.  |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 29, 2021 8:13:14 GMT -5
I REALLY wanted to like Voyager, but it was just terrible, IMO. DS9 I've tried 4 times to get to what you guys say is the 'good' part... I just haven't been able to wade through the drek to get there. I'd say I liked Enterprise better than both of them. I've never been one to care about a diverse cast, and for Trek inparticular, the whole point is that stuff doesn't matter anymore. Discovery was decent once it found it's stride, but it's clearly an alternate universe. It simply doesn't fit with the others. Also TOO MUCH MIRROR UNIVERSE. It was great for that one episode, and it was fine to see the other cast check it out, but its really overdone by this point. (only the 1st two seasons, no idea what the new far future set up is like yet). I thought Picard was pretty good... a few things I really liked, a few I didn't, but it was a good move forward. Eh, it's not an alternate universe. People just have to accept that the original series went off the air nearly fifty years ago and that it's look is very much a product of its time. I love it, don't get me wrong, and the deficiencies never pull me out when I'm watching it and I appreciate that they were doing the best they could with what they had to deliver a look into what they thought the future would look like...but the future understandably looks different now. In 1966 the world's most powerful computer took up nearly a whole floor of Columbia University, so that the Enterprise's computer was just a few wardrobe size machines was definitely presenting something cutting edge to the audience of the era...but in 2021 I have a computer with ten times the processing power of the IBM 91...and it fits in my pocket...so the Enterprise's computer brain isn't that fantastic any more as miniaturization has out paced the imagination of the writers in 1966. On top of that reel to reel memory isn't a thing anymore and neither are analog toggles, buttons or switches and the over all look and design of furniture and clothing have progressed beyond that 60's mod style. Again, I love the boots and groovy flowy tops(not so much the mini skirts the women seem forced to wear) but that's not what we think of as the future anymore so the style had to change...and that change doesn't mean the new shows are in a different reality, it just means what people expect out of a television presenting the future has changed. And it's the same with other long running sci-fi shows like Doctor Who, the Cybermen were just guys in tin foil suits back in the 60's and you just have to accept that they were imposing because that's the way the other actors on screen reacted to them...but that wouldn't fly today. Time marches on and so too must the fiction. |
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