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Aug 29, 2016 6:31:09 GMT -5
Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 29, 2016 6:31:09 GMT -5
This reminds me of something that had always bothered me about the 1950s Adventures Of Superman show with George Reeves The origin episode shows Eben and Sara Kent (why they changed the names, who knows) adopting and caring for Clark on their farm. Eben suffers a heart attack and dies. Shortly after Clark packs his bags, kisses his mom a tearful goodbye and takes off for Metropolis. For the next 7 years of the show, Clark's mother is never mentioned. He never calls, never writes, never visits, never sends money, nothing. A poor widowed old lady left alone on a farm. That's not the American way that I know of. Supes goes out of his way to help Chuck Connor and his mule deliver a pie to someone in Alaska. Or help Professor Pepperwinkle with his nutty inventions. But zilch for his sweet old mother. Bah Ha, yeah, I'm sure he took care of his mom off panel. Come on, he's the model son. I don't know about that Iccy. Superman back then acted as a Superdick, especially in regards to women. Now lets look at the facts Reporters back then didn't make a lot of money, probably a middle income job and remember he was only in Metropolis for a few years so no veteran pay grade They show you his apartment in the TV show. Nice apartment, nice building, nice neighborhood Clark owns a car. Saw that a few times too. Why the hell he needs a car is beyond me. Could have sent his mom the money instead but no, he's making car payments just for appearances sake He always wears a suit. Always. Always. Even on Sunday. How many suits does he own. I'm sorry, between Clark keeping-up-with-the-Jones-lifestyle, never mentioning grey haired Mom, treating Lois like a child, can you blame me for assuming the worst? At the same time , in the comics, he gave Jimmy a watch. What's up with that? Never gave Lois any jewelry.Nor his mom the time of day If I was a DC writer, I'd retcon a story all about this
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Aug 29, 2016 6:34:26 GMT -5
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 29, 2016 6:34:26 GMT -5
Ha, yeah, I'm sure he took care of his mom off panel. Come on, he's the model son. I don't know about that Iccy. Superman back then acted as a Superdick, especially in regards to women. Now lets look at the facts Reporters back then didn't make a lot of money, probably a middle income job and remember he was only in Metropolis for a few years so no veteran pay grade They show you his apartment in the TV show. Nice apartment, nice building, nice neighborhood Clark owns a car. Saw that a few times too. Why the hell he needs a car is beyond me. Could have sent his mom the money instead but no, he's making car payments just for appearances sake He always wears a suit. Always. Always. Even on Sunday. How many suits does he own. I'm sorry, between Clark keeping-up-with-the-Jones-lifestyle, never mentioning grey haired Mom, treating Lois like a child, can you blame me for assuming the worst? At the same time , in the comics, he gave Jimmy a watch. What's up with that? Never gave Lois any jewelry.Nor his mom the time of day If I was a DC writer, I'd retcon a story all about this You're a riot. Remember though, he could squeeze coal into diamonds.
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Aug 29, 2016 6:42:57 GMT -5
Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 29, 2016 6:42:57 GMT -5
At the same time , in the comics, he gave Jimmy a watch. What's up with that? Never gave Lois any jewelry.Nor his mom the time of day If I was a DC writer, I'd retcon a story all about this You're a riot. Remember though, he could squeeze coal into diamonds. Probably gives those to Jimmy too. "Jeepers, thank you Superman"
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Aug 29, 2016 8:11:52 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 8:11:52 GMT -5
Not sure you get why the Kents wouldn't have seen their son grow up even if they hadn't gotten sick? Because the youth serum was wearing off and they quickly got old again. Or did you mean something else? Not sure where you saw Cary Bates listed as writer, but page 1 of the story lists Martin Pasko as the writer. Also, it's hard to say whether Pasko came up with the entire story himself, or editor Julius Schwartz got him to write it. Three issues after this one was the infamous story that explained how Superman fools people with a pair of glasses - the Kryptonian glass in the lenses magnifies his super-hypnotism power, so he subconsciously forces everyone to see Clark Kent as frail and delicate (now that's a retcon!). A fan sent that idea to Schwartz, who liked it, so he told Pasko to write it. Pasko didn't like it but wasn't going to turn down a paying job. "And why are only the first "S" sounds in his words hissed?" Exaggerating every "s" in his dialogue would eat up valuable real estate on the page that needed to go to other dialogue. Or something. Side note: Funny you say "surprise" about Bates. He was often called "Mr. Surprise" in the letter columns. Perhaps some day I should do a review of the Trial of the Flash. The full year spent building up to it was utter garbage, but once the trial actually started, things got wild. I just meant that other than the fact that they were growing older, there was no reason to think that the Kents couldn't have lived to see, at the very least, a few months of Clark's Superman career. Pre-Crisis, anyway, the Kents died just before Superboy packed his bags and moved to Metropolis. Clark did the same, going to Metropolis University. This meant that Clark was no more than 18 or 19 when the Kents died and that even if they were 60 when they found him, they were only in their late 70's when he left. A good age, I'll grant you, in the mid-50s and early 60's, but not unattainable. Oh, and I checked the GCD and Mike's Amazing World and both list Bates as the writer. Weird that the credits list Pasko. I'd've checked my own copy, but, well, it wouldn't have been in my collection. Oh, you had to remind me of the Mopee-deserving Hypnotic Glasses, didn't you, Chris?
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Aug 29, 2016 8:25:23 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 8:25:23 GMT -5
By writing The Miraculous Return of Jonathan Kent Cary Bates made a contribution to all those Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told volumes yet to be published that can never be overestimated and yet there's the matter of what he did to Luthor in 1983...
In 1963, Edmond Hamilton introduced readers to a more nuanced Lex Luthor by forcing the character to choose between killing Superman in front of an adoring crowd or intentionally allowing himself to fail at this scheme so that he could save a doomed planet. Luthor choose to act selflessly and heroically for perhaps the first time in his life and was rewarded with having the planet Lexor named in his honour. Here, Luthor was a hero - he had used Superman to bring a dying civilization water and had presumably restored much of the scientific knowledge to a civilization that had been reduced to the lowest rungs of any dark age. Lexor was the one place in the universe where Luthor acted honorably at all times - the people of this planet may as well have been his children.
Now Lexor only appeared about a half dozen times or so during the 1960's, but it ushered in a Luthor who possessed a certain code of ethics. Not all the time of course, but there are a number of stories throughout the 1970's and 1980's in which we learned that there were limits to how far Luthor was willing to go with his plans. In one of Elliot S! Maggin's novels for instance, Luthor prevented Superman's soul from falling into the hands of the Devil because in spite of Luthor's hatred for the Man of Steel, he felt that even his worst enemy didn't deserve an eternity of torment. Luthor never told Superman what he did for him nor did he expect anything in return for his good deed, it was simply a line he would not cross.
Maggin championed this new Luthor and even established that not only was there was a time in Luthor's life when the world's greatest supervillain had come close to deciding to use his genius only to help the world, but that Luthor would likely redeem himself in the future (interestingly, this is how Maggin created LexCorp about a year before John Byrne took over). There's a great deal of richness then, from about 1963-1983 and then Cary Bates changed all that...
In Action Comics 544 Bates introduced the New Luthor (the Green Powersuited guy). Without warning, explanation, or even follow up details, Bates decided to have Luthor spontaneously decide to turn on the planet Lexor. I suppose the only reason Lexor was reintroduced after disappearing from the texts sometime during the late 1960s was because Bates knew what it symbolized. Here - again no warning, no hint, nothing - Luthor dons his new powersuit, goes out at night, steals various pieces of equipment simply out of habit and when caught, begins screaming about how much he always thought of Lexorians as nothing more than insects. Soon after, Luthor accidentally destroys the planet and becomes "More Evil Than Ever!!!" or in Bates-speak "Same guy as before without nuance or depth and cranked up to eleven!"
I get that characters are changed every so often for whatever reason, but why is it so hard for writers to exact these changes without contradicting the best of what's come before? As I've said to Chris, Chad, I'm not at all conversant with most of the ins and outs of 80s continuity, so I did not know about how drastically Cary "Throw Out the Baby with the Bathwater" Bates had changed Luthor. So much easier to write a villain when his/her motivation can be reduced to "I'm crazy." I'm glad I didn't know this bit of business either. It's not a ret-con, but a wreck-con. Again, the Silver Age gets smacked down for its childishness, but then along comes something like Lexor (and Allura). I was fascinated by those stories; Luthor in those days was an intriguing, complex character, like Ahab in prison greys. Like Milton's Satan, he would rather rule in hell than kneel in heaven. That kind of pride, a pride that would compel Luthor to leave a world where he was lionized, deified, even, is something to be reckoned with. And so much more interesting to a reader than yet another "crazy" antagonist. But, and this may answer your perhaps rhetorically meant final question, it's easier.
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Aug 29, 2016 8:29:01 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 8:29:01 GMT -5
Not sure I get why. No need to answer, chris, but thanks for posting this. It reaffirms the wisdom of my decision to stop reading Superman several years previously. If I hear another comics fan talk about how superior the Bronze Age was to the Silver, this will be Exhibit A to the contrary. Kobra? Really? Talk about a D-list villain. And why are only the first "S" sounds in his words hissed? This had to have been the work of a fan-turned-writer who couldn't just leave well enough alone. (Checking) Surprise! It's Cary Bates, he of the Dickensian (in length) and Bulwer-Lytonian (in dullness) "Trial of the Flash" who came up with this horrible goulash. I liked the Trial of the Flash, it was one of the very few stories featuring Barry Allen in which he wasn't dull! Too bad Bates couldn't have told the story in fewer chapters than Homer needed to tell the story of Odysseus.
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Aug 29, 2016 8:32:19 GMT -5
Post by MDG on Aug 29, 2016 8:32:19 GMT -5
It's not a ret-con, but a wreck-con. Can I get this on a t-shirt?
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Aug 29, 2016 8:38:47 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 8:38:47 GMT -5
It's not a ret-con, but a wreck-con. Can I get this on a t-shirt? On Earth-1, Prince Hal would have said, "Sure!" I have decided to ret-con myself into Dark Hal, psychotic poster, so you're out of luck. Hmmm. Maybe "Prince Hell" would be cooler. Get me Cary Bates on the phone. PS: I should have said, "It's not a ret-con, it's a wreck-con." Punchier. So let it be written!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220
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Retcons
Aug 29, 2016 9:14:24 GMT -5
Post by Confessor on Aug 29, 2016 9:14:24 GMT -5
Here you go. They used the same intro in all 6 seasons (I think it was 6) the last 4 seasons in color. They shot those color shows, weirdly enough, even though no one had color TV at the time Thanks, never seen any of that before. The Batman TV show was forever being shown on ITV over here in the 70s, but I'm not sure we ever got to see Superman. Yeah, we did get the old 50's Superman TV show starring George Reeves over here in the UK in the 70s and 80s. I used to enjoy watching it as a youngster and seeing that clip Ish has posted is a real blast of nostalgia for me because I remember that intro very well. I seem to remember that The Adventures of Superman was on quite early in the morning on a Saturday. Not sure if it was BBC or ITV though.
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Aug 29, 2016 9:22:55 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 9:22:55 GMT -5
Here you go. They used the same intro in all 6 seasons (I think it was 6) the last 4 seasons in color. They shot those color shows, weirdly enough, even though no one had color TV at the time Thanks, never seen any of that before. The Batman TV show was forever being shown on ITV over here in the 70s, but I'm not sure we ever got to see Superman. Must have taken you hours to find that clip, ish. Thanks for doing all the legwork. (Need a smiley face?)
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Aug 29, 2016 9:26:30 GMT -5
Post by Prince Hal on Aug 29, 2016 9:26:30 GMT -5
This reminds me of something that had always bothered me about the 1950s Adventures Of Superman show with George Reeves The origin episode shows Eben and Sara Kent (why they changed the names, who knows) adopting and caring for Clark on their farm. Eben suffers a heart attack and dies. Shortly after Clark packs his bags, kisses his mom a tearful goodbye and takes off for Metropolis. For the next 7 years of the show, Clark's mother is never mentioned. He never calls, never writes, never visits, never sends money, nothing. A poor widowed old lady left alone on a farm. That's not the American way that I know of. Supes goes out of his way to help Chuck Connor and his mule deliver a pie to someone in Alaska. Or help Professor Pepperwinkle with his nutty inventions. But zilch for his sweet old mother. Bah As I understand it, the names were never really established in the comics and the TV show went with the names used in the early 40s George Lowther novel. At one point in the comics, they were John and Mary, IIRC.
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Aug 29, 2016 9:58:06 GMT -5
Post by tingramretro on Aug 29, 2016 9:58:06 GMT -5
Thanks, never seen any of that before. The Batman TV show was forever being shown on ITV over here in the 70s, but I'm not sure we ever got to see Superman. Yeah, we did get the old 50's Superman TV show starring George Reeves over here in the UK in the 70s and 80s. I used to enjoy watching it as a youngster and seeing that clip Ish has posted is a real blast of nostalgia for me because I remember that intro very well. I seem to remember that The Adventures of Superman was on quite early in the morning on a Saturday. Not sure if it was BBC or ITV though. Ah, right. Saturday morning TV wasn't really something we did in our house.
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Retcons
Aug 29, 2016 10:42:23 GMT -5
Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 29, 2016 10:42:23 GMT -5
This reminds me of something that had always bothered me about the 1950s Adventures Of Superman show with George Reeves The origin episode shows Eben and Sara Kent (why they changed the names, who knows) adopting and caring for Clark on their farm. Eben suffers a heart attack and dies. Shortly after Clark packs his bags, kisses his mom a tearful goodbye and takes off for Metropolis. For the next 7 years of the show, Clark's mother is never mentioned. He never calls, never writes, never visits, never sends money, nothing. A poor widowed old lady left alone on a farm. That's not the American way that I know of. Supes goes out of his way to help Chuck Connor and his mule deliver a pie to someone in Alaska. Or help Professor Pepperwinkle with his nutty inventions. But zilch for his sweet old mother. Bah As I understand it, the names were never really established in the comics and the TV show went with the names used in the early 40s George Lowther novel. At one point in the comics, they were John and Mary, IIRC. Good to know about the Eben and Sara names, having never read Lowther's novel. I would think, however, that since the Superboy Comic was published for a few years prior to the TV show that it was possible the Jonathan and Martha was already in use. Also since this was the first season, Whitney Ellsworth wasn't supervising the show as of yet, not as close as he would starting with season 2. Perhaps the learned DCIndexer or the esteemed Cei-U can chime in with the facts of when the Jonathan and Martha names were established
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Post by chadwilliam on Aug 29, 2016 10:50:27 GMT -5
This reminds me of something that had always bothered me about the 1950s Adventures Of Superman show with George Reeves The origin episode shows Eben and Sara Kent (why they changed the names, who knows) adopting and caring for Clark on their farm. Eben suffers a heart attack and dies. Shortly after Clark packs his bags, kisses his mom a tearful goodbye and takes off for Metropolis. For the next 7 years of the show, Clark's mother is never mentioned. He never calls, never writes, never visits, never sends money, nothing. A poor widowed old lady left alone on a farm. That's not the American way that I know of. Supes goes out of his way to help Chuck Connor and his mule deliver a pie to someone in Alaska. Or help Professor Pepperwinkle with his nutty inventions. But zilch for his sweet old mother. Bah
Keep in mind that while it may seem cruel or inhuman today, back in 1950s America it was considered not only acceptable but noble and inspiring to not make yourself a burden on a society that had little use for anyone over 60 or thereabouts. I guess it was edited it out of later viewings, but I could have sworn there was a scene in that first episode where Ma Kent places a single bullet in a revolver, spins the cylinder, closes her eyes, slowly raises the gun to her head, shivers, then cut to a smiling Clark Kent arriving at the Daily Planet for the first time. "Do we have to send a portion of every paycheck to your mother, Kent?" "What? No! I'm a GOOD American dammit! Send it to Professor Pepperwinkle!"
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Aug 29, 2016 11:55:07 GMT -5
Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 29, 2016 11:55:07 GMT -5
Ha, yeah, I'm sure he took care of his mom off panel. Come on, he's the model son. Clark owns a car. Saw that a few times too. Why the hell he needs a car is beyond me. Could have sent his mom the money instead but no, he's making car payments just for appearances sake I wondered if maybe the show was sponsored by an auto company...but no...it was Kellogg's. But when you think about it, it would have been pretty un-American for him not to have had a car in the 50s.
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