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Retcons
Aug 20, 2016 15:10:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 15:10:54 GMT -5
OK I just used a "dirty" word in comics: retcon. Most have been terrible or unnecessary. However some were good & added something to a character.
Some examples:
Good: giving Superman a past as Superboy. Bad:OMD
List both good & bad ones.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 20, 2016 16:05:02 GMT -5
Good: retconning away the "young Conan" story arc from Conan the barbarian.
Good: Captain America was frozen at the end of WWII and the super soldier serum gives him an extended longevity.
Bad: The spider-totem.
Bad: Wolverine's memories are implants.
Bad: Vision is not the original Human Torch after all.
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Retcons
Aug 20, 2016 16:08:50 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 16:08:50 GMT -5
In past history of this forum - I was told that Amazing Man was not a Golden Age Character but a Silver Age Character instead being a member of the All-Star Squadron. The problem with me I get frustrated when I was told by a fellow reader and/or a member of this forum that this story is a retcon. It's makes me mad and that alone makes me cry because it's not following any script and/or continuity.
The older I get - I stay away from Imaginary Stories that's often retcon itself and that's not good for me at all. So, right now I'm sticking with stories that keeps the continuity alive and well.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 20, 2016 17:15:36 GMT -5
I always liked the idea that Alfred was there for young Bruce Wayne.
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Post by MWGallaher on Aug 20, 2016 17:59:47 GMT -5
Bad:
Bruce Banner was abused as a child, and that's (a big part of) why he became the Hulk under the influence of gamma rays. In my opinion, the intriguing premise of the Hulk is not unleashing the rage buried within, it's the idea of a scientist who gains great power, but at the sacrifice of his intellect.
Good:
I know it's controversial, but I loved Robert Loren Fleming's explanation of the lightning that triggered Barry Allen's transformation to the Flash!
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Post by coinilius on Aug 20, 2016 18:36:42 GMT -5
I always liked Vision and Human Torch not being the same character - for one thing, it means that the awesome Jim Hammond Human Torch can be around again in the present alongside Vision.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 20, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -5
Good: Alec Holland died, and Swamp Thing is a plant who integrated his memories. It shouldn't have worked, but man! Did it ever!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 20:06:53 GMT -5
Good: the way Brubaker brought Bucky back into the present day.
Bad: the way Jason Todd was brought back.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 20, 2016 20:10:59 GMT -5
Bad: Aunt May did not stay dead. I like the character. But it was a genuine emotional moment created by JM De Matteis and Mark Bagley. Aunt May confesses early in the day with Peter, she knew all along. And then that night ....I dislike retroactively changing things. I understand from a business standpoint why it exists but I still dislike it. And that there is more bad than good, I'd rather the concept not exist to insure what writers do stay that way. Does it mean that I can't enjoy future Spiderman stories with Aunt May? No. I really enjoyed Ultimate Spiderman. Maybe if comics were more anthologies than a cluster of cannon and retconning. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 20:24:27 GMT -5
Bad: Aunt May did not stay dead. I like the character. But it was a genuine emotional moment created by JM De Matteis and Mark Bagley. Aunt May confesses early in the day with Peter, she knew all along. And then that night .... imgur.com/a/8eGpUI dislike retroactively changing things. I understand from a business standpoint why it exists but I still dislike it. And that there is more bad than good, I'd rather the concept not exist to insure what writers do stay that way. Does it mean that I can't enjoy future Spiderman stories with Aunt May? No. I really enjoyed Ultimate Spiderman. Maybe if comics were more anthologies than a cluster of cannon and retconning. I agree bringing Aunt May back took away a great story. I think the same about Jason Todd. Not only was he brought back in a stupid way but it took away Batman's failure to protect Jason. Overall the majority of retcons are terrible. But the ones like Bucky coming back & Swamp Thing are brilliant! I think the key to a good retcon is it doesn't "erase" or negate past stories but enhances them...if that makes sense. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 20, 2016 20:39:58 GMT -5
Bad: Aunt May did not stay dead. I like the character. But it was a genuine emotional moment created by JM De Matteis and Mark Bagley. Aunt May confesses early in the day with Peter, she knew all along. And then that night .... imgur.com/a/8eGpUI dislike retroactively changing things. I understand from a business standpoint why it exists but I still dislike it. And that there is more bad than good, I'd rather the concept not exist to insure what writers do stay that way. Does it mean that I can't enjoy future Spiderman stories with Aunt May? No. I really enjoyed Ultimate Spiderman. Maybe if comics were more anthologies than a cluster of cannon and retconning. I agree bringing Aunt May back took away a great story. I think the same about Jason Todd. Not only was he brought back in a stupid way but it took away Batman's failure to protect Jason. Overall the majority of retcons are terrible. But the ones like Bucky coming back & Swamp Thing are brilliant! I think the key to a good retcon is it doesn't "erase" or negate past stories but enhances them...if that makes sense. Jason Todd was a big part of me abandoning Batman's titles when I did. I gave Hush a chance but after that I couldn't take anymore. I think Hush was good because he wasn't the focus so it was still a good story. And that's a good assessment of how retroactively changing things previous writers have done. You don't have to negate or destroy previous history to change it. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 20, 2016 21:07:04 GMT -5
I agree bringing Aunt May back took away a great story. I think the same about Jason Todd. Not only was he brought back in a stupid way but it took away Batman's failure to protect Jason. Overall the majority of retcons are terrible. But the ones like Bucky coming back & Swamp Thing are brilliant! I think the key to a good retcon is it doesn't "erase" or negate past stories but enhances them...if that makes sense. Jason Todd was a big part of me abandoning Batman's titles when I did. I gave Hush a chance but after that I couldn't take anymore. I think Hush was good because he wasn't the focus so it was still a good story. And that's a good assessment of how retroactively changing things previous writers have done. You don't have to negate or destroy previous history to change it. Jason Todd is such an odd example. Max Allen Collins' retcon was, other than in name, and entirely new character, so it was possible for me to LIKE both characters even while resenting the loss of the old one. And I loved what Mike W. Barr did with him in Detective, but that didn't really align with either version of the character. Then Jim Starlin came in and retconned his own retcons with Jason seemingly every other issue until finally arriving at the Death in the Family character (who, even then, was very different by the end than he'd been in the beginning of that storyline). So I don't know which retcon to object to. Moench's depiction: fantastic and nearly flawless Max Allen Collins' depiction: problematic, but I could see where he was going with it, and it was going to work out well if he'd been allowed to continue. Mike W. Barr's depiction: fantastic and truly flawless Jim Starlin's (final depiction): powerful, memorable, very flawed I don't know that I'd wish to undo any of them. I just wish it had been less of a mess than it was. |
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Retcons
Aug 20, 2016 21:20:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 20, 2016 21:20:47 GMT -5
As far as Jason Todd goes, in my defense, Death in the Family was my introduction to the character. A TPB I managed to obtain at Six Flags in the early 90's before I ever regularly bought comics several years later. And I built back from that story with Starlin's run. I've read some before that outside of Starlin, but I'm almost positive I've never read a pre-COIE Jason Todd to have much of a view in him outside of his character shortly before his death. And like md mentioned in his post, I hated him coming back as a vindictive dick mad at Batman and willing to kill because that didn't seem to be the character I read.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 20, 2016 21:28:08 GMT -5
As far as Jason Todd goes, in my defense, Death in the Family was my introduction to the character. A TPB I managed to obtain at Six Flags in the early 90's before I ever regularly bought comics several years later. And I built back from that story with Starlin's run. I've read some before that outside of Starlin, but I'm almost positive I've never read a pre-COIE Jason Todd to have much of a view in him outside of his character shortly before his death. And like md mentioned in his post, I hated him coming back as a vindictive dick mad at Batman and willing to kill because that didn't seem to be the character I read. I started with Death in the Family too, #428 specifically. I don't know -- much as I HATED the idea of bringing Jason back from the dead, his characterization and drive made complete sense to me. And when Winnick finally told the story the way he wanted to, free of interference in the animated Batman: Under the Red Hood movie, everything made a LOT more sense. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it, and I am not a consumer of the DC direct to video animated films in general. I hated Jason coming back, but it was done really really well except when editorial got involved. Would have loved to have seen where Jason's arc would have gone if One Year Later hadn't gotten in the way. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 21:31:56 GMT -5
As far as Jason Todd goes, in my defense, Death in the Family was my introduction to the character. A TPB I managed to obtain at Six Flags in the early 90's before I ever regularly bought comics several years later. And I built back from that story with Starlin's run. I've read some before that outside of Starlin, but I'm almost positive I've never read a pre-COIE Jason Todd to have much of a view in him outside of his character shortly before his death. And like md mentioned in his post, I hated him coming back as a vindictive dick mad at Batman and willing to kill because that didn't seem to be the character I read. I started with Death in the Family too, #428 specifically. I don't know -- much as I HATED the idea of bringing Jason back from the dead, his characterization and drive made complete sense to me. And when Winnick finally told the story the way he wanted to, free of interference in the animated Batman: Under the Red Hood movie, everything made a LOT more sense. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it, and I am not a consumer of the DC direct to video animated films in general. I hated Jason coming back, but it was done really really well except when editorial got involved. Would have loved to have seen where Jason's arc would have gone if One Year Later hadn't gotten in the way. I will check to see if it is on Netflix. |
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