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Post by dupersuper on Sept 13, 2016 9:44:02 GMT -5
The 90s gets a bad rap because the garbage was front and center, but like any time, it had great stuff, good stuff, meh stuff and crappy stuff. While mention of the 90s brings pictures of Image nonsense, bad art, violence, pouches, et al to many the comic fan, to me the 90s was the time of triangle era Superman, Morrison JLA/Animal Man/Invisibles, Sandman and the beginning of Vertigo, Jones GL books/El Diablo, Waid Flash/Impulse/Captain America, Priest Steel, Peter David Supergirl/Hulk/Aquaman/Star Trek/Young Justice, the tail ends of JLI Perez Wonder Woman and Ostrander/Yale Suicide Squad, Ostranders Spectre /Martian Manhunter, Kingdom Come, Marvels, Starman, Astro City, Milestone, Paradox Press, Helix, Understanding Comics, Americas Best Comics, Batman Adventures/Superman Adventures..
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 13, 2016 11:17:25 GMT -5
I keep meaning to re-read Knightfall/Knights Quest/Knights End again. I haven't read it since the '90s, but I remember quite liking it. I'm interested to see whether it still holds up for me. It's a fairly big undertaking though, to start re-reading that lot. I've never read the comic version of this event. I've only read O'Neil's novelisation of it which was rather good. As for Avengers wearing bomber jackets, I've been slowly catching up on it. I had stopped reading Avengers around the time of (was his name?) Rage. Hearing about Harras' long term story arc of the Gatherers piqued my interest and so far, I haven't seen all that much to be mad about. Harras' plots and characterization are decent, I like the love triangle between Dane, Crystal and Sersi and Epting's art is great as well. (Although yeah, Herc needs a beard). In fact, if it wasn't for this forum, I probably never would have known about the Kirby origins of the Coal Tiger when he appeared in #355-356. I liked the novel real well myself too, and I read it after reading the comics. I (well now, not then) have almost 100% of the issues, except a few Knightquest issues. I might do an undertaking of reading that again too. Right now I have been going through some Silver Surfer issues, and will share them when I get some decent time to post. The 90's was where I started reading less and less comics. I began the decade reading quite a lot of Marvels, and dipping my toes into DC with the Vertigo line. But real life was getting in the way, with work and stuff. The trends that were emerging at Marvel back then (relaunches and gimmick covers and just too many titles) were making the hobby too expensive and less attractive. Once I lost touch with X-Men continuity, for example, it was a pain to try and get back into it. So I never did. I never stopped loving comics, or the characters, but that Marvel explosion just pushed me out of the hobby and I never again bothered about buying 'new' comics. When I did start spending money on the hobby it again, it was just to collect trade paperbacks of the 70s and 80s stuff (mostly the Essential Marvel line). I think the thing that helped a lot to in my accumulation of 90's comics, is that I was a teen making money mowing lawns to having a full time job and either still living with my parents or living alone with little financial obligations. Your situation in the 90's is what I have had for the past 5-6 years. There's stuff both old and new I'd like to get, but I have priorities that trump my hobby.
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Post by Randle-El on Sept 13, 2016 11:31:48 GMT -5
The majority of the 90s coincided with my high school and college years. Comic books dropped off the radar for me right around when Image was getting off the ground, though I still retained an active interest in superheroes via TV and movies. The last comic books I purchased were stuff by the Image guys right before they left Marvel. When I started coming back to comics several years later, I got caught up a bit on what happened in the 90s and I realized that my hiatus was well-timed, judging by all the crap that was put out. That said, as others have pointed out, there was plenty of good stuff if you looked hard enough. FYI, we had another thread on the 90s from a while back in case anyone is interested: classiccomics.org/thread/805/good-90s
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Post by masterofquackfu on Sept 13, 2016 13:05:08 GMT -5
Ah..the 90's. The good old days..the day before our lives were ruled by cell phones and the Internet. It was the last time that I bought comic books regularly(up until about '97). Someone mentioned Wizard...and I used to love that magazine...used to read it during my lunch break..loved the humor. I read a myriad of titles...had my share of favorites...remember buying New Warriors #1 off the spinner racks in the summer of 1990. Thought they'd actually be a book that would have some longevity, but Marvel by then was deciding that it didn't want titles to continue indefinitely. I always felt that Marvel dropped the ball on the New Warriors. Also, like someone mentioned, I loved Quasar. Gruenwald did a really good job with that title...very underrated book, imo. I was pretty much buying Quasar and the New Warriors regularly. What else...oh, Silver Surfer, Warlock. I also liked Ghost Rider. And also, of course, the Avengers, FF,etc. I'm sure I'm forgetting a tons of other titles that I read, but what I mentioned above would have been the highlights. Yeah, the 90's were the last glory days for comic books..the 00's have been atrocious. I'd say I've bought about 10 comic books of the rack since 2000(and about 7 of those were during my vacation in 2005 when I needed some reading for the beach). I simply don't like the direction of how the art is favored over the actual story in the 00's. You can finish a comic book in less than 10 minutes. Oh, and they want you to shell out $3-4 per issues..uh, no thanks. I'll stick to the Bronze Age titles. The one thing I absolutely didn't like was the shameless money grab by comic companies. The multiple #1 cover variants as well as the endless stream of gimmicky covers(hologram covers,ugh). Complete greed by Marvel and the rest and was probably the catalyst for why I no longer buy any current comic books(although, regretfully, I recently shelled out money for the Iron Fist '70's collection...aargggh). However, I really am enjoying reading those old Bronze Age Iron Fist tales and Marvel won't ever make that much money off me very often....so, meh, why not just once. But the 90's was the last time before we were bombarded by the Internet, so, in a way, I view it as a more innocent time.
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Post by rom on Sept 13, 2016 15:14:19 GMT -5
Thanks for your mention of Wizard - even though I wasn't collecting any Marvel comics during the '90's, IIRC I did pick up that mag. a couple of times, mainly because of the cool covers and inserts (cards, etc.).
I also ended up buying a couple of X-men card sets in the early-mid '90's as well. Great artwork; even though I wasn't collecting any of the X-men comics at the time, these cards were fantastic.
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Post by tingramretro on Sept 14, 2016 2:00:22 GMT -5
Ah..the 90's. The good old days..the day before our lives were ruled by cell phones and the Internet. It was the last time that I bought comic books regularly(up until about '97). Someone mentioned Wizard...and I used to love that magazine...used to read it during my lunch break..loved the humor. I read a myriad of titles...had my share of favorites...remember buying New Warriors #1 off the spinner racks in the summer of 1990. Thought they'd actually be a book that would have some longevity, but Marvel by then was deciding that it didn't want titles to continue indefinitely.I don't think that was the case at all! New Warriors lasted 75 issues, over six years, which is and was then a very respectable run for a title featuring no 'big' characters, and as far as I'm aware, it was only dropped then because sales were falling off. Even back in the 70s, a lot of well remembered and much loved books did not last 75 issues; many didn't last 25 issues!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 14, 2016 9:26:47 GMT -5
Ah..the 90's. The good old days..the day before our lives were ruled by cell phones and the Internet. It was the last time that I bought comic books regularly(up until about '97). Someone mentioned Wizard...and I used to love that magazine...used to read it during my lunch break..loved the humor. I read a myriad of titles...had my share of favorites...remember buying New Warriors #1 off the spinner racks in the summer of 1990. Thought they'd actually be a book that would have some longevity, but Marvel by then was deciding that it didn't want titles to continue indefinitely.I don't think that was the case at all! New Warriors lasted 75 issues, over six years, which is and was then a very respectable run for a title featuring no 'big' characters, and as far as I'm aware, it was only dropped then because sales were falling off. Even back in the 70s, a lot of well remembered and much loved books did not last 75 issues; many didn't last 25 issues! Well the art department suffered drastically when Mark Bagley left. I don't much of a good succession of issues after that, but it seems art and stories were all over the place, and the drama in the stories was everybody at each other's throats. Especially Nova and Night Thrasher, which got kind of old. I still want the whole series and still lack a considerable amount after the #30's or so. I liked Fabian's writing early on, but the series really started to decline and become more of the 90's stereotypical comic to me. And some of the spin offs, like the Night Thrasher mini I got recently weren't too good either. More of the "90's" so to speak.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Sept 14, 2016 9:50:10 GMT -5
The "90's" really doesn't start for me, in terms of comics, until Image forms. Many of the comics Marvel was putting out throughout 1990 and 1991 were still pretty good, particularly Incredible Hulk, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, X-Men, Thor etc. I think 1992 is when everything went to hell: speculator boom, Claremont kicked off X-Men, flashy art over substance, and so on.
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Post by rom on Sept 15, 2016 8:58:10 GMT -5
I think 1992 is when everything went to hell: speculator boom, Claremont kicked off X-Men, flashy art over substance, and so on.
Agreed. And, Marvel was the worst culprit here. Obviously, comic companies are in the business to make money (like all other businesses). But, Marvel trying to get fans to buy 3-4 of the same issue by offering 3-4 different covers was reprehensible. And, it's obvious that most of those "variant covers" are worthless now. I'm glad I never spent one red cent on any Marvel comics during this decade.
IIRC, Marvel was in dire financial straits for much of the '90's. Not surprising, since much of what they were producing in that decade was only good for two things - toilet paper and/or paper to line the bottom of a bird cage/kitty litter box.
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Post by Snikts and Stones on Sept 15, 2016 10:03:32 GMT -5
Like my intro post said, I got into comics as a "full time" hobby in mid-late '92, with the X-titles and the GR relaunch being my main go to. The line wide reshuffle and Image exodus had happened, out with the old in with the kewl. My first "big event" was the X-cutioners Song, and not knowing any better I ate it up. For better or worse, I got to read the entire line, begin to pick my favorite characters, and found out I loved Peter David. I also became interested in the New Mutants and what happened to the title, as well as the hows and whys the whole reshuffle happened, what happened to Claremont? Byrne?... I had just fallen in love with universe and activated an archival gland I didn't know I had!
Wizard magazine was a constant in those days as well, as it was still a comics mag, and not a "pop culture" Bendis and Millar rump swabbing rag yet. I love this thread!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 15, 2016 10:51:10 GMT -5
Ah..the 90's. The good old days..the day before our lives were ruled by cell phones and the Internet. It was the last time that I bought comic books regularly(up until about '97). Someone mentioned Wizard...and I used to love that magazine...used to read it during my lunch break..loved the humor. I read a myriad of titles...had my share of favorites...remember buying New Warriors #1 off the spinner racks in the summer of 1990. Thought they'd actually be a book that would have some longevity, but Marvel by then was deciding that it didn't want titles to continue indefinitely.I don't think that was the case at all! New Warriors lasted 75 issues, over six years, which is and was then a very respectable run for a title featuring no 'big' characters, and as far as I'm aware, it was only dropped then because sales were falling off. Even back in the 70s, a lot of well remembered and much loved books did not last 75 issues; many didn't last 25 issues! Yeah, New Warriors just ran it's course.. they tried to change over the team, and the new members just weren't what people wanted, but yet the originals (Justice, Firestar, Nova, Speedball, Thrash, Rage) were ready to move on... Nova was into the cosmic realm. Justice and Firestar were more a couple that was decided wether to super hero or not, Thrash was mostly busy with his business and raising Rage, and Speedball was trying to hold it all together, it just didn't work. Especially since Nova and Thrash had their own books, and Firestar and Justice probably should have. They tried to boost interest (and sales) by making it a Spider Title during the Clone saga (and adding Ben Reilly to the team) but that just failed horribly. Now they just trot out the name every so often and get me excited they're going to recapture that magic.. and fail worse every time. Honestly, the best New Warriors book since the original series was Avengers: The Initiative
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 19, 2016 9:48:52 GMT -5
Finally, I am getting a chance to report some reading I recently did. After reading the Secret Defenders 9-14, I decided to go back and read some back story on Nebula as well as the Cosmic Powers mini series, which is follow up to the SD issues. Silver Surfer (Vol.2) #67-75 by Ron Marz and Ron Lim Issues #67-69 are tie ins to Infinity War, but still have enough of a story to stand on their own. Dr Strange is helping Galactus try and locate a power source in an alternate dimension to aid in the Infinity War battle. Outside of the ship however, there is another being. Someone lost in this dimension that aims to use Galactus' ship to make his escape. These issues also deal with Nova (Frankie Ray) having second thoughts about being Galactus' herald. This also has the back story of Geatar, Nebula's first mate, taking care of her on a prison planet, as she is in a catatonic state. (This story of why and how this happened is in Silver Surfer Annual #5, an issue I surprisingly don't have. Which is what took place before Secret Defenders #9 when Surfer asks Dr Strange for help. Followed by these Surfer issues.) Eventually Geatar breaks Nebula out and brings her to Dr Mandibles, a creepy "gray" looking alien. And he fixes Nebula, into a 6 million dollar woman. Geatar continues to vow his services to Nebula, now that she is in the right state of mind and body. And she vows to get the vengeance she so sought, but was foiled in the Secret Defenders issues. In issues #70-75 we have the Herald Ordeal. This is the format of "events" that I like. All contained in one title, and still relevant to the characters within that title. Which I also thought was done well with the Infinity War tie in issues as well. There was enough story for each issue to still be entertaining even if one wasn't going to read Infinity War. But by the time mid to late 90's came Marvel started taking the Clone Saga route and making every issue empty and pointless to keep readers buying all the Spidey titles, as well as any one shots to tell a story. Anyway, Nova finally betrays Galactus. So with no herald, Galactus chooses to go on his own after Surfer convinces him abandon the battle between him and Nova. This is where Galactus meets an alien on planet he is about to consume, that has no fear. So Galactus makes him his new herald, Morg. When Surfer meets up with Morg, trying to talk to Galactus, he gets his ass handed to him. So Surfer rounds up all previous heralds of Galactus to confront Morg. Including my favorite, Terrax. I think Marz paced the story real well, and did good in playing on the personalities of the different heralds, as Surfer had to use different tactics to get each one to see the need for their power to fight against Morg. And of course I am also an unapologetic Ron Lim fan, so the art is top notch for me. I like his battles in space and how he illustrates the cosmic power. And Terrax is one of my favorite villains, like Thanos, he is not always doing bad, sometimes he does good, but he always does it for his own gain. (I may go back and read Terrax in FF though that's not 90's thread material, I still might.) I think the story wrapped up nicely. The only complaint I would say was in the final battle it seems that Morg mortally wounds, even seems to have killed all the heralds, leaving Surfer alone. Only to find that they were all just "knocked out" and they return to the battle and overcome Morg. Covers .... imgur.com/a/9XkaJCosmic Powers #1-3 There are six issues in this mini series, but this' all I've read at the moment. It also seems that this series is benefiting from Marvel's movies, maybe, as issue 3 & 6 are way up there in selling price on Lone Star and the remaining issues are still more than cover price, which is what I paid. Not that I could sell such a great mini series brought to you, again, by Ron Marz. Each issue focuses on one character in particular that is part of Thanos' scheme and features a different artist (except 1 & 4 by Ron Lim). This mini series is a follow up to the Secret Defenders #9-14, where Thanos used some Earth villains to acquire the Oracle of Infinite Knowledge. Thanos, searching for a real challenge, through the Oracle learns of a creature named Tyrant, that could rival Thanos, and actually be a worthy challenge. Terrax stars in #2. He has his own story of feeling there are no challenges left for him in the universe, and by the end of the issue Thanos confronts him with the offer of a real challenge of power; Tyrant. Terrax accepts and follows Thanos. The art by Jeff Moore was good and the story okay, I guess. This one Marz really played on that Terrax really is a good person, and this issue he actually showed compassion. It seemed a bit of stretch based on his past actions, and really didn't play much to the overall story that will play out as more issues are read. Probably the weakest issue. Especially being that I like Terrax and this characterization just seemed off. But of all the great stuff that Ron Marz has written, I can forgive him this one. Issue #3 stars Jack of Hearts and Ganymede. Ganymede's Spinsterhood was created to keep Tyrant at bay. So Thanos wants to find her and get more information regarding Tyrant before he confronts him. However, JoH, hopelessly in love with her tries to intervene in Thanos and Terrax capturing her when they find them. JoH is left near death from his battle against Thanos. Thanos before leaving the planet surface of the Spinsterhood's home planet, destroys JoH's ship so that he cannot trail them. Andy Smith did the art on this issue, and it was fair. Not my style so much, with his human anatomy. Everyone seems to be "roided". But it's a minor complaint. The art is still serviceable and his sequential art in battle is good. As for the story, it's pretty much there to introduce Ganymede into this particular story line. Previous to this (and issues I still need to read again) she was in Silver Surfer #80-82 and annual #6, and then here in Cosmic Powers. She was also in one issue of a mini series Cosmic Powers Unlimited that was a sort of continuation of Cosmic Powers. And that's all I have read of this series so far, but will finish it soon. Covers .... imgur.com/a/iO9k3
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 19, 2016 11:13:21 GMT -5
It seems that many of the books that you picked up have cosmic characters. I have most of those books and thoroughly enjoyed them.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 19, 2016 12:39:24 GMT -5
It seems that many of the books that you picked up have cosmic characters. I have most of those books and thoroughly enjoyed them. Silver Surfer's series really introduced me to a lot of Marvel's cosmic character, maybe even more so than through Thanos and Warlock. And I have always liked Marvel's cosmic characters. Most of them were instant likes from the first time I read a story with them in it. And Surfer's second series is great stuff for the first 100 issues. Or at least that's what I read the most. I have read the latter 40 some issues in a while. But it would still fit the bill of this thread, so maybe I'll do that in the future. Though I do have issues missing between 100 and 120 or so before I have the complete rest of the series. And then around that same time I was shown Walt Simonson's run on Thor and introduced to Beta Ray Bill, who quickly became another favorite cosmic character. So there will probably be a lot of cosmic Marvel in my 90's reviews. Not all, but a lot. The 90's also had all the 2099 titles too, another favorite of the 90's for me.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 20, 2016 11:52:42 GMT -5
Wrapping up the Cosmic Powers series with #4-6. Issue #4 features Legacy, son of Cap Marvel, as he finds out that Nitro is the one responsible for his father's death. (He even met him, not knowing who he was, in the Secret Defenders #14.) The issue is pretty light on story and basically features a "I learned how to be a superhero by not giving into revenge" and didn't kill Nitro as he had planned to. And he doesn't really fit into the story much after that. And really not featured much in the final showdown. But since Jack (Jack of Hearts) showed up on Titan, Mentor sends Legacy to help Jack get Ganymede back from Thanos and Terrax. Art by Ron Lim, so that aspect of it was pretty good, with some nice big splash pages of Legacy's fight with Nitro. But the story was pretty thin, and as I said before, he seems like a third wheel in the rest of the story. Jack just is, because he lacks the power to be a threat. Issue #5 features Morg, the one still a prisoner of Tyrant. (Which was in Silver Surfer #80-82, which I failed to read before this.) Morg refuses to serve Tyrant and wishes to return in service to Galactus. So when Thanos and company (Ganymede offered her help to Thanos and Terrax in the last issue so as to defeat Tyrant) breach Tyrants' fortress, Tyrant uses a mind control device to sic Morg on them. However in battle, Terrax destroys the device and Morg leaves to return to Galactus. Art is by Tom Grindberg, who also did most of the Secret Defenders issues (#9-14) whose story leads up to Cosmic Powers. Splash page of Morg by Grindberg imgur.com/a/ieOoaIssue #6 is the finally showdown. Thanos, Terrax, Ganymede, Jack and Legacy (the latter two showing up at the end of issue #5) vs Tyrant. We find out Tyrant's origins and Thanos finds what he seeks. A bauble of power and knowledge which he takes for himself. However even the Mad Titan doesn't get the whole picture. Even after all the scheming he does. Some highlights of issue #6. imgur.com/a/6cTE9And the covers ... imgur.com/a/lm08VBefore I depart Silver Surfer and Marvel cosmic characters, I plan on reading Silver Surfer #76, 77, 80-82 and Annual 6, which are some more back story on Ganymede, Tyrant and Jack of Hearts.
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