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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 24, 2016 11:30:06 GMT -5
Taking a break for cosmic Marvel for, Batman: Castle of the Bat (1994) DC's Elseworlds were another favorite of mine to discover. Though most of Elseworld acquisitions are Batman, I have some of other characters. On a gaming forum I request this list of Batman reinventions got posted. So I'll read the five out of the seven I own. Though one of them isn't in the 90's. To me the biggest flaw of CotB is its following too closely to the Frankenstein story, at least in its direction. The happenings and story elements unique to it were what were good about it. But that Bruce had to go "mad" or hunchback Alfred and the final destruction of the Bat-Man were too reminiscent of Frankenstein that it feels like it is a crutch. I think the story could have stood on its own if it had been a little more original. Maybe even better. And then there's Bo Hampton art, which I've always liked. And probably one of my first "painted" artist outside of some Aliens covers and the Marvels series. His art is easily the best part of the book. Here's what I'm going to try and read for this thread if they all happen to fall in the 90's. Anyone read Batman Hollywood Knight? It's from 2001 but it's in the above link and is considered an Elseworld.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 25, 2016 0:14:26 GMT -5
Taking a break for cosmic Marvel for, Batman: Castle of the Bat (1994) DC's Elseworlds were another favorite of mine to discover. Though most of Elseworld acquisitions are Batman, I have some of other characters. On a gaming forum I request this list of Batman reinventions got posted. So I'll read the five out of the seven I own. Though one of them isn't in the 90's. www.cracked.com/article_19537_the-7-stupidest-attempts-to-reinvent-batman.htmlTo me the biggest flaw of CotB is its following too closely to the Frankenstein story, at least in its direction. The happenings and story elements unique to it were what were good about it. But that Bruce had to go "mad" or hunchback Alfred and the final destruction of the Bat-Man were too reminiscent of Frankenstein that it feels like it is a crutch. I think the story could have stood on its own if it had been a little more original. Maybe even better. And then there's Bo Hampton art, which I've always liked. And probably one of my first "painted" artist outside of some Aliens covers and the Marvels series. His art is easily the best part of the book. Here's what I'm going to try and read for this thread if they all happen to fall in the 90's. Anyone read Batman Hollywood Knight? It's from 2001 but it's in the above link and is considered an Elseworld. imgur.com/a/ljqJhI owned and read Castle of the Bat way back in the '90s, when it came out. I remember close to nothing about it now, but I do recall that I was not impressed at all. I was quite into the whole Elseworlds thing back then, which is weird because I found most of those graphic novels to be major let downs. These days, I think I've purged them all from my collection, with the exception of The Dark Knight Returns (that was Elseworlds, right?).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 3:11:17 GMT -5
Hmm though as others have said, there was a lot of crap in the 90s, there was some good stuff too, even at the big 2. Here's a list of 10 runs/series worth reading from Marvel and and 10 from DC. For Marvel, I am going to limit it to pre-Heroes Return, so no Busiek/Perez Avengers, but stuff in the heart of the "bad" 90s worth reading. For DC, I will keep it to stuff under the DC imprint (i.e. not Vertigo stuff or stuff that became Vertigo titles(so no Sandman, etc.)
These are listed in no particular order...
Marvel 1. Marvel Universe 4-7, the Monster hunters by Roger Stern and friends 2. Captain America by Waid and Garney (Cap #444-454) 3. Silver Surfer by Starlin and Lim (#34-50, after #50 Marz took over and the book became nearly unreadable for me) 4. Guardians of the Galaxy by Jim Valentino and friends (GotG #1-29) 5. Hellstorm, Prince of Lies by Warren Ellis (#12-21) 6. ClanDestine by Alan Davis (#1-12) 7. Dr. Strange by J.M. DeMatteis (and Mark Buckingham) (#84-90) 8. Two-Gun Kid: Sunset Riders (2 issue prestige mini) 9. Man-Thing by J.M. DeMatteis and Liam Shrpe (part of the Strange Tales imprint; #1-8) 10. Black Panther: Panther's Prey by Don McGregor and friends (4 issue prestige mini)
DC 1. Ostrander & Mandrake's Spectre (#1-62) 2. James Robinson's Starman 3. Hawkworld by Ostrander and company 4. Ordway's Power of Shazam 5. Jack Kirby's Fourth World by John Byrne and Walt Simonson (moreso for the Simonson stuff, but still a fun read all around) 6. The Atlantis Chronicles by Peter David and Estaban Marotto 7. Mike Grell's Warlord (6 issue mini) 8. Scare Tactics 9. Hardcore Station by Jim Starlin (#1-6) 10. Mark Waid's Flash
There are more I could list, but there is stuff worth reading (depending of course on your tastes) even in the wasteland that was mainstream comics in the 90s. You just have to look for it a little bit, but it's there.
-M
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RikerDonegal
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Most of the comics I'm reading at the moment are Marvels from 1982.
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Post by RikerDonegal on Sept 25, 2016 5:03:31 GMT -5
Marvel1. Marvel Universe 4-7, the Monster hunters by Roger Stern and friends 2. Captain America by Waid and Garney (Cap #444-454) 3. Silver Surfer by Starlin and Lim (#34-50, after #50 Marz took over and the book became nearly unreadable for me) 4. Guardians of the Galaxy by Jim Valentino and friends (GotG #1-29) 5. Hellstorm, Prince of Lies by Warren Ellis (#12-21) 6. ClanDestine by Alan Davis (#1-12) 7. Dr. Strange by J.M. DeMatteis (and Mark Buckingham) (#84-90) 8. Two-Gun Kid: Sunset Riders (2 issue prestige mini) 9. Man-Thing by J.M. DeMatteis and Liam Shrpe (part of the Strange Tales imprint; #1-8) 10. Black Panther: Panther's Prey by Don McGregor and friends (4 issue prestige mini) Interesting. And useful. It was around this time that I stopped reading Marvel, so these are all new to me. Some (like Waid's Cap, or ClanDestine) I've previously heard good things about. But it's reassuring to see that there are several gems to be found in this period.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 25, 2016 8:19:34 GMT -5
I owned and read Castle of the Bat way back in the '90s, when it came out. I remember close to nothing about it now, but I do recall that I was not impressed at all. I was quite into the whole Elseworlds thing back then, which is weird because I found most of those graphic novels to be major let downs. These days, I think I've purged them all from my collection, with the exception of The Dark Knight Returns (that was Elseworlds, right?). I think I might find myself not remembering them as fondly as I do this time around. I read Detective Comics 1994 Annual with Batman, Joker, Robin, Catwoman and Alfred all pirates in the 1800's, I'd assume from the few dated references. But it was not one of Chuck Dixon's best efforts. I think the concept, like anything, go overused. While Gotham by Gaslight was labeled an Elseworld its sequel Master of Future was, and to my understanding the start of that label. I picked the ones to read from the article as they said they're the worst. So I'm kind of expecting a little disappointment. But I think being a big Batman fan even before comics the idea of Batman in other times and setting was such cool idea then that I over looked some bad stories.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 25, 2016 8:22:17 GMT -5
Marvel1. Marvel Universe 4-7, the Monster hunters by Roger Stern and friends 2. Captain America by Waid and Garney (Cap #444-454) 3. Silver Surfer by Starlin and Lim (#34-50, after #50 Marz took over and the book became nearly unreadable for me) 4. Guardians of the Galaxy by Jim Valentino and friends (GotG #1-29) 5. Hellstorm, Prince of Lies by Warren Ellis (#12-21) 6. ClanDestine by Alan Davis (#1-12) 7. Dr. Strange by J.M. DeMatteis (and Mark Buckingham) (#84-90) 8. Two-Gun Kid: Sunset Riders (2 issue prestige mini) 9. Man-Thing by J.M. DeMatteis and Liam Shrpe (part of the Strange Tales imprint; #1-8) 10. Black Panther: Panther's Prey by Don McGregor and friends (4 issue prestige mini) Interesting. And useful. It was around this time that I stopped reading Marvel, so these are all new to me. Some (like Waid's Cap, or ClanDestine) I've previously heard good things about. But it's reassuring to see that there are several gems to be found in this period. Waid & Garney both before and after (though Garney didn't stay on as long as Waid) the volume two 13 issue deal are among the very few Cap stories to entertain me. Especially their first volume run that MRP posted.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 8, 2016 13:27:37 GMT -5
Next I'm going to read Firebrand #1-5 to see if there's a reason I never bought the remaining issues. As well as Final Night #1-4 with these tie in issues...
Detective Comics #703 Green Lantern #80, 81 Parallax Emerald Night #1 Robin #35 Takion #6
Hopefully soon. If not this weekend, the first of the week. I was filing my Fear issues I just read and was reminded of these two. So I'm curious to go back and read them since it's probably been since I bought them off the rack that I have read them.
Edit: Ended up having a busy weekend after all. But I will get to these. I am especially kind of pumped to read Final Night again, as I remember it being my first DC "event" as far as new stuff off the rack, and it seemed to be more concise than Marvel's like the Clone Saga, or even my beloved Age of Apocalypse.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 11, 2016 10:37:29 GMT -5
Okay, according to Lone Star's listing, I am reading the crossover issues that I do have to go with Final Night in this order. Detective Comics #703 Final Night #1 Green Lantern #80 Final Night #2 Final Night #3 Parallax: Emerald Night #1 Final Night #4 Robin #35 Takion #6 Green Lantern #81 Detective Comics #703 Dixon/Nolan/Hanna Four nights now Gotham has been in darkness. And of course the lesser of good citizens are out taking advantage of the others. And the story is "narrated" by a DJ with a very negative attitude about humanity. So while he's not expecting citizens to stand up for one another, and for Gotham to plunged into the dark ages again, we get to see Batman, Robin and Huntress foiling various crimes and protecting citizens. Even the very DJ that is accosted at the end after leaving the station, who had no faith in humanity. Fairly basic issue. I guess in a prelude type fashion it is okay. But it, was a title I was getting monthly at the time, so it wasn't really that I thought it would add much to the Final Night series. Same with Robin and GL. Takion I got for the awesome cover, and the Parallax issue seemed important to the mini series, so I got it. I also forgot the Final Night mini was all in one month. So Karl Kessel and Stuart Immonen cranked out four 32 page books in one month/ Ron Marz and Mike McKone doing the Parallax special. Edit: Final Night 1-4 Green Lantern #80 Parallax: Emerald Night #1 In GL, Kyle finds out Dr Light has been trapped in his battery, but "the other one" (which I take to mean Alan Scott) was the one who did it. And Dr Light escapes with new powers and intends to prove his new powers make him more formidable. But all Kyle is trying to do is explain to him Earth's situation. When Dr Light finally listens, Kyle tries to enlist his help, but Light is only interested in saving his own ass. However something he said makes Kyle think that he might have an idea of something that will help fix Earth's sun. The Parallax issue is probably the most unnecessary of all to read. While I like Ron Marz writing, the Parallax issue is nothing but Hal trying to convince himself and others (that he transports to visit) that he is still a hero after his atrocities before Kyle (and the reason that) becomes the new Green Lantern. I've never been a Hal fan, even when trying to read him, in hindsight to Kyle being GL. He's got this complex that he knows what is right for everyone, and he knows better than them. (Not that that flaw isn't in other heroes.) And it shows as he going posturing to all the people that will tell him want he wants to know, even going so far as to heal John Stewart whose crippled when serving as Darkstar by Grayven. Why doesn't he appear before Batman and ask him what he thinks of him? Anyway, I read it, and of course after Earth's pep squad all boost Hal's ego he's ready to play the hero again. Final Night turned out pretty good, for me forgetting most of it after all this time. It was pretty easy to tell it was four 32 page issues pumped out in one month by the story. Not necessarily dumping that on Kessel's shoulders, but the story didn't seem like there was much to it. The threat to the Earth's sun came just as soon as the solution. And that solution seemed just as rushed as the rest of the story. Or maybe it was DC's quickly thrown together excuse to bring back Hal and make him a hero again. I wouldn't know the history behind the issues themselves, but that seemed the case to me. The Sun-Eater (even in name) was just some generic entity that ate suns, like DC's solar Galactus, but with none of the thought and back story that Galactus has. I still enjoyed the four issues, as I would some random creature feature movie that I might watch. But this one, I would necessarily suggest, unless one just likes to see DC's heroes come together and defeat a common foe. Though I guess this really wasn't any less "generic" that Cosmic Odyssey, in ends as quickly as it began. Or the solution seemed easier than the appearance of the antagonist. Differnce is CO had Starlin and Mignola. Not to say that in four 32 page issues Immonem's art ever took a dip. I am not per say, a fan of his art, but I can recognize that it kept it his best through the whole story. So if you find any in the dollar bins somewhere and you just like DC hero team-ups, then I'd say they are worth it at that price. Also unless you are a Hal fan, skip the Parallax issue all together. It gets painful have to read that many pages of Hal tooting his own horn. Okay, okay, my Hal rant is at an end.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 11, 2016 16:28:12 GMT -5
Robin #35 Takion #6 Green Lantern #81 The Robin issue (and more so Takion) really have little to do with Final Night. Robin I was buying monthly though, so .... But while trying to stop a crime Robin and Spoiler get trapped in a cave in of snow. And while Robin hunts for the criminal that tried earlier to kill them with a chainsaw, they come across a woman and her baby that got trapped under the snow as well. Thankfully, after finding the chainsaw wielding criminal and taking him down, there was no more incident until they were finally able to tunnel out and see the sun. I like Tim Drake as Robin, and I think Dixon did well for the 100 issues he wrote. There's good little morals to stories, like this one where if they hadn't looked for the criminal as Spoiler wanted to leave him to die, they would not have found the mother and child and two innocent people would have died. Even if it was the end of the world, Robin keeps on doing the right thing as if it weren't. Ole Chuck was good at that in Robin. Takion had little to do with Final Night as well, other than mentioning the sun was back on the first page. And it's the only Takion issue I own. But come on .... what a bad ass cover .... The Green Lantern issue is the funeral held for Hal's passing from the end of Final Night. There's a few pin ups and a reprint of the story of how Hal got the ring. Mostly it's everyone telling how they knew Hal, whether it be the hero GL or the man Hal. Among some that speak are John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Superman, Flash (Barry Allen?), Black Canary (Oliver Queen also supposedly died just a year ago in GA #101), and Kyle. Batman hovered from above with Robin still unforgiving of Hal's actions as Parallax. Although after everyone speaks and before the end of the issue, he changes his mind and forgives Hal. Those much have been some speeches. So no worries, if you destroy a city all's forgiven when you die. Forgiveness void for Adolf Hitler and Judas Iscariot. Please see deity for details.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 13, 2016 15:16:40 GMT -5
Firebrand #1-5 Brian Augustyn Sal Velluto Covers imgur.com/a/lGIkyThe first three issues are pretty much origin and the original story line and antagonist involved in his origin. Which is detective Alex Sanchez gets to close to the truth in a case involving children being kidnapped. His apartment is blown up to kill him. However it does not, but leaves him in a state, after waking up from a three month coma, not in the condition to do much, possibly ever walk. But an anonymous benefactor has experimental surgery done on Alex during those three months that will at least give him 80% mobility back. From there we find out why and how Alex becomes Firebrand and why his benefactor helped him. I really dug the costume and design when I saw the issue on the rack. That is what initally got me to pick it up. Reminded me of Kenshiro "Zero" Cochrane, Ghost Rider 2099 or a mix of Iron Man and 616 Ghost Rider. Either way I liked the design a lot and decided to give it a try and see what it was like. Issue four was a pretty standard fare bad guys selling/buying guns complete with evil villain mech. Not much to it other than Velluto's art still going strong. Issue five was the highlight of the series so far. Some bits, especially the origin, were coming back to memory as I read them, but this issue I had forgotten about. And that it being the last issue I bought, seems to be, at least in 1996, what got me either disinterested in it, or at least apathetic enough to not keep up with the series. So either my taste has changed or it was something else I do not recall. Either way this is about a serial killer who stalks a specific age group and hair color of women, killing them in the same way and taking a souvenir from them. Just as some crazy psychopath Alex and his partner caught and was convicted by a court and sentenced for his crime. Still in state hospital for criminal insanity, his same MO starts showing up. So Alex figures it's a copycat. But the police kept everything under a tight lid as to the details of the crime, that no one should be able to copy his crimes in the detail that this person is doing now. And when they catch this copycat they can't manage to figure why exactly the man claims to have no memory of his actions and says he is innocent. While reading this, I thought it was a lot like something I read before, but in a different title. I looked up Brain Augustyn and realized he wrote Gotham By Gaslight. And in that hindsight a lot of the panels seems a lot like scenes (in a general sense) from Gotham by Gaslight. And I thought, that would make a lot of sense, especially if Brain where involved a lot with the two artists in the panels conveying what he wanted. Here are some pages/panels from issue five. imgur.com/a/dg1OTOverall I would say it's not the best. But I don't think it's really a "90's" story. I think the setting and circumstances in it would be out of place in another day and age. All of the elements are pretty common in the reality of life outside of a suit of armour that can help a crippled man fight crime. But with the advancements in animatronics and prosthetics in the 20 years since this was written do make it seem closer to a reality. It also wasn't a CCA approved comic, and that may have at that time, especially from DC or Marvel had a weight in why it was only nine issues. Although according to Lone Star's synopsis of issue nine and the title of it "Final Notice" seem to indicate, that at least Brain, was either done telling his story, or was given enough of an advance from DC that they were done with him telling his story enough to wrap it up somewhat. I guess I won't know for sure until I get the remaining issues and read them. So until then I will just have to speculate.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 13, 2016 19:22:41 GMT -5
Wow.. I had no idea there was a DC Firebrand. Apparently, there were several versions even.
I took a quick look, and issue 6 had a fill in penciller (Mark Bright) so perhaps that did it?
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 14, 2016 8:01:54 GMT -5
Wow.. I had no idea there was a DC Firebrand. Apparently, there were several versions even. I took a quick look, and issue 6 had a fill in penciller (Mark Bright) so perhaps that did it? That's news for me. I didn't know there was a Marvel Firebrand or previous DC Firebrands when I did a little research for the above review. Could have been. Takion is another (the issue involved in Final Night that I reviewed) title that lasted under 10 issues around that same time. Plus, I know from reading and reviewing some of the issues that spun out of Zero Hour, some of them did not last long either. And that was 1-2 years earlier. I guess like Marvel and Image, DC was trying out things too and many didn't survive for long.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 14, 2016 8:07:33 GMT -5
Marvel's Firebrand (at least the one I know) was a major Iron Man villain in the early 70s, that later got demoted to henchman and irrelevancy.
I have a couple issues of Takion as well, but at the time I was a try everything kinda guy.. I think I only stuck around as long as issue 4 or 5 for the Kyle Rayner appearance and Final Night tie in
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 14, 2016 8:59:31 GMT -5
Yeah being 18 with a full time job and still at home helped me be a try anything guy too. I can see as probably half the titles coming out of the 90's I didn't stick with long. So I know too I was trying stuff blind.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 18, 2016 13:39:59 GMT -5
Saw earlier someone said they didn't know much about the Bronze Age. I'm an Ancient Geek; send your questions my way.
The 90s was, at times, just another decade; and, at other times, a near cataclysm. I'm a story guy and I hated the stupid gimmicks. People have debated terms for the 90s and The Marketing Age suits me. There was a ton of that going on and the product was often not up to the hype. Some of it was better, though. I can't condemn a decade that gave me Bone, Starman, Astro City, Terminal City, Hellboy, Strangers in Paradise, The Golden Age (the JSA mini). It was a transitive time, for me.
I started reading comics around 1970. I started collecting in earnest by the end of the decade, when I was earning my own money. By high school, I had discovered the independents (beyond the non-Big 2, in the 70s). The 80s were a watershed, as I found my first comic shop. Dc was on fire, with their modernizing efforts that began in the late 70s paying dividends, with Dark Knight, Watchmen, and more. Everything DC seemed to do was interesting (well, the majority of everything). I had discovered more and more coll books from the independent world. I was reading little Marvel, though. That continued into the early 90s. However, as the gimmick became worse, I moved more and more into the fringes. I was the only guy at my LCS getting stuff like Negative Burn, Hate, and similar things. I dabbled in the odd Marvel book. I was in on Valiant, once they abandoned the Nintendo and WWF comics and started the Valiant Universe. I lost interest a little while after Shooter was ousted. Dark Horse got a lot of my money during the decade, Innovation did, in the early years, until they went under.
Behind the scenes, it was sad to see the mess that Marvel became. Dc seemed to lose that innovative spirit and fell back on doing the same stuff. There were pockets, like Waid on Flash, and others, which still turned out consistently good-to-great stories. That's what kept me going through the worst of it.
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