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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 8, 2015 12:56:09 GMT -5
Very interesting list that you clearly put a lot of thought into. The wide spectrum of opinions seen here on the CCF is one of its most appealing attributes. What troubles me is that I have the exact opposite opinion of so many items on your list that I'm afraid I might be nothing more than a perfect imperfect Bizarro version of you.  I am aware that my opinions on a lot of things are off at a tangent to many/most people here - the virtues or otherwise of Superman 1, often rate quite high amongst the list of contentious items. I continue to hope to lead all the deluded ones into the light... Slightly concerned that your opposite view leaves you rating Batman & Robin as the best superhero film ever  (Pretty cool to have my own Bizarro, though) I was a little surprised to see Superman 4 wasn't on your "crimes against cinema" list. Superman 1 has its issues, but I know of nothing that redeems #4. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 14:11:16 GMT -5
I was a little surprised to see Superman 4 wasn't on your "crimes against cinema" list. Superman 1 has its issues, but I know of nothing that redeems #4. There is one thing that redeems it for me.... after S3 there was no way on earth I was going to watch another one, so still to this day, I haven't seen it!  |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jan 8, 2015 14:25:45 GMT -5
I was a little surprised to see Superman 4 wasn't on your "crimes against cinema" list. Superman 1 has its issues, but I know of nothing that redeems #4. There is one thing that redeems it for me.... after S3 there was no way on earth I was going to watch another one, so still to this day, I haven't seen it! You know, I wondered if that could be the explanation. Clearly anyone who'd seen it wouldn't have forgotten how bad it was, no matter how they tried. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 6:28:13 GMT -5
I just caught the last 15-20 minutes of Amazing Spider-Man 2 - an absolutely classic in the "film-makers with no idea how to end the film" category. Hard to judge it fairly without seeing the rest of the film (which I am now even less likely to do), but based on the bit I saw, it's making a strong case for entry in the "Crimes Against Cinema" category.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Jan 15, 2015 15:44:19 GMT -5
I just caught the last 15-20 minutes of Amazing Spider-Man 2 - an absolutely classic in the "film-makers with no idea how to end the film" category. Hard to judge it fairly without seeing the rest of the film (which I am now even less likely to do), but based on the bit I saw, it's making a strong case for entry in the "Crimes Against Cinema" category. Crime against cinema for sure. Such an awful flaccid piece of crap. There isn't even a villain in the story until an hour in, and he has one fight with Spidey before being locked up until the end. 3/4 of the way through the movie there is no villain and thus no tension, aside from the stress of whether or not Gwen Stacy goes to England for college. It's exactly what you'd expect from someone who only made indie romance garbage prior to taking on the Spidey movies. Even my 10 and 12 year old cousins think it's a piece of crap. What a waste of perfectly good casting. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 17, 2015 20:04:30 GMT -5
I really enjoy this serial as well and it has quite a few things going for it:
1. Lewis Wilson's depiction of Bruce Wayne hits all the right notes and is the only interpretation of the character to faithfully follow the comics. Not an extension of Batman's neurotic, emotionally stunted state, but the guy Batman pretends to be when he wants to have some fun. Bored with life to the point that he can't listen to accounts of Batman's exploits without falling asleep and constantly putting his foot in his mouth, Wilson perfectly captures Bill Finger's "bored, young playboy" routine while reminding us that Batman has a unique sense of humour.
2. Batman as a laughing young daredevil. Someone once explained the Golden Age Batman as "an eccentric millionaire's hobby" and that description captures so much of the spirit of the Batman of the period. It's nice to see this serial follow those lines as it presents us with a Batman who enjoys being Batman. Letting a criminal find out after the fact that the keys to the cuffs he placed on him were hidden in his coat the whole time, the grin he gives Robin when they rush off into battle at the start of the first episode, and little exchanges such as this one when Alfred is led to believe he's frightened off a gang of crooks with his wild, directionless shooting only adds to the appeal of the character:
Alfred: How many did I get, sir?
Batman: Seven.
Alfred: But I only fired three bullets.
Robin: You killed two of them twice.
3. Speaking of Alfred, before this serial, Alfred was a short, bald, buffoonish fellow used more for comic relief than anything else. Still used for comic relief, William Austin's Alfred was instead tall, thin, and had a slim moustache - it's his appearance that the comics follow to this day.
4. The fact that it's a serial and Batman works really well when he's surrounded by cliffhangers at 15/20 minute intervals in black and white.
There are of course, several things wrong with this serial. Batman's outfit looks terrible (in fact, in one scene, you can see several cigarettes fall out of the pouch Wilson had been carrying them in). The ears look like horns, the belt is just, I don't know, a ribbon with a buckle on it I guess, and the bat emblem has little rounded ears. There's certainly no Batmobile or gadgets and while Captain Arnold is fun, there's really no reason this serial couldn't have used Gordon instead. The serial also contains several instances of racism towards the Japanese that can't simply be excused by the fact that there was a war on at the time. That last detail, makes this a guilty pleasure I suppose, but I nevertheless find this an enjoyable piece of work. J Carroll Naish portrays the villain of this serial and does a wonderful job - although he plays the Japanese Dr Daka there's nothing racially offensive about his portrayal at least - it's more the characters/narrator's reactions to him that will make you twinge.
It's a shame that this serial isn't better known.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 17, 2015 21:14:36 GMT -5
I just caught the last 15-20 minutes of Amazing Spider-Man 2 - an absolutely classic in the "film-makers with no idea how to end the film" category. Hard to judge it fairly without seeing the rest of the film (which I am now even less likely to do), but based on the bit I saw, it's making a strong case for entry in the "Crimes Against Cinema" category. Crime against cinema for sure. Such an awful flaccid piece of crap. There isn't even a villain in the story until an hour in, and he has one fight with Spidey before being locked up until the end. 3/4 of the way through the movie there is no villain and thus no tension, aside from the stress of whether or not Gwen Stacy goes to England for college. It's exactly what you'd expect from someone who only made indie romance garbage prior to taking on the Spidey movies. Even my 10 and 12 year old cousins think it's a piece of crap. What a waste of perfectly good casting. My favorite Spider-Man stories tend to be the ones that focused more on Peter and his relationships with the fantastic supporting cast than punching bad guys so I thought this was a pretty good adaptation of Spider-Man. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 17, 2015 21:47:59 GMT -5
I just caught the last 15-20 minutes of Amazing Spider-Man 2 - an absolutely classic in the "film-makers with no idea how to end the film" category. Hard to judge it fairly without seeing the rest of the film (which I am now even less likely to do), but based on the bit I saw, it's making a strong case for entry in the "Crimes Against Cinema" category. Crime against cinema for sure. Such an awful flaccid piece of crap. There isn't even a villain in the story until an hour in, and he has one fight with Spidey before being locked up until the end. 3/4 of the way through the movie there is no villain and thus no tension, aside from the stress of whether or not Gwen Stacy goes to England for college. It's exactly what you'd expect from someone who only made indie romance garbage prior to taking on the Spidey movies. Even my 10 and 12 year old cousins think it's a piece of crap. What a waste of perfectly good casting. There is so much wrong with Amazing Spider-Man 2 that I don't really want to get started, but for me, Andrew Garfield was one of the biggest problems. His Peter Parker is a smug. arrogant ass and his self-deprecating manner is so transparently insincere that I can't believe anybody in the cast is REALLY falling for it. I suspect they're just being polite and not really eager to call Peter out on his bull.
The one good thing - the relationship with Gwen where she knows his identity and wants to help - is completely and totally ruined by killing her.
It's a mess. I saw it with my nephew (he's 11) and he hates it when I talk about how bad movies are while they're on. But about halfway through, he started talking about how bad it was and tacitly gave me permission to fire away.
So bad even Christopher Nolan couldn't do any worse. (Was that harsh?)
Simon Garth, you are wise to give this a wide berth.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Jan 17, 2015 21:53:36 GMT -5
Crime against cinema for sure. Such an awful flaccid piece of crap. There isn't even a villain in the story until an hour in, and he has one fight with Spidey before being locked up until the end. 3/4 of the way through the movie there is no villain and thus no tension, aside from the stress of whether or not Gwen Stacy goes to England for college. It's exactly what you'd expect from someone who only made indie romance garbage prior to taking on the Spidey movies. Even my 10 and 12 year old cousins think it's a piece of crap. What a waste of perfectly good casting. My favorite Spider-Man stories tend to be the ones that focused more on Peter and his relationships with the fantastic supporting cast than punching bad guys so I thought this was a pretty good adaptation of Spider-Man. Those are my favorites too but what makes those stories great is the dynamic between his civilian life and his costumed life and how they affect each other, whether it's his duties as Spider-Man forcing him to neglect his social life, having to humiliate himself to hide his powers or personal emergencies forcing him to flee a crime as Spider-Man. Also, I wasn't criticizing the movie as an adaptation, I was criticizing it as a movie. The relationship drama might have been faithful but as a movie it's boring crap. Where is the villain? You know, the character that opposes the hero and to generate conflict (and thus interest)? All the movie has is one fight with Electro at the 1 hr mark and a shoehorned ending (the handling of the Green Goblin is where the movie is also a crappy adaptation in addition to just being crappy in general). There is zero tension for most of the movie because nothing is at stake. You don't have a giant shark eating people on the 4th of July weekend (3/4 of the way through Jaws = U.S.S. Indianapolis story and the shark attacking the boat). You don't have a fight with Apollo Creed fast approaching (3/4 of the way through Rocky = Training montage and Rocky admitting he can't beat Apollo). You don't have Darth Vader zeroing in on the heroes (3/4 of the way through Empire Strikes Back = Luke abandons his training to save his friends, Lando's betrayal is revealed and Han is frozen in Carbonite). There needs to be a force in the story that applies pressure and creates tension. It has to build towards something. And by the time you're at the 3/4 mark the events in your story are turning towards the climax and the culmination of everything that has come before (the final confrontation between the shark and The Orca, the fight between Rocky and Apollo, the battle between Luke and Vader). What you don't do is have your hero completely at ease save for the stress of having a girlfriend go study abroad. That is bloodless. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 17, 2015 22:07:29 GMT -5
I never much cared for Spidey's villains, often skipping through the action for the character work and interpersonal drama which was what we got here. This isn't to say it's the best superhero movie, but it felt interesting to me.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Jan 18, 2015 1:14:22 GMT -5
My main complaint with the film is the producers need to shoehorn a 2nd villain into the film. They could have ditched Goblin, who managed the impossible by making me wish for the Willem DaFoe version, and had the film climax with the besting of electro, or even with a cliffhanger death of Gwen.
Instead they give us another comic inspired movie that cant decide where its going, cram stuff in because we're too stupid to notice, and sit back and wonder why people dont go back to it.
...and if I see another Spider-Man/Superman origin movie...there will be blood
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Post by Pól Rua on Jan 18, 2015 10:06:24 GMT -5
I'm so glad someone mentioned serials, because I have to say, the Spy Smasher serial, the Captain Marvel serial, and BOTH Green Hornet serials, are Top-notch!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 18, 2015 11:13:20 GMT -5
I'm so glad someone mentioned serials, because I have to say, the Spy Smasher serial, the Captain Marvel serial, and BOTH Green Hornet serials, are Top-notch! I've never seen the Captain Marvel serial, though I've heard its really good. I did recently see the Phantom serial at it was seriously one of the best I've ever seen, and the costume looked perfect:  And it starred Tom Tyler who was also Captain Marvel. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 18, 2015 12:40:06 GMT -5
I've never seen the Captain Marvel serial, though I've heard its really good. Can't say enough good about the Captain Marvel serial. Tom Tyler looks fantastic in a beautifully faithful recreation of the classic CM costume from Whiz Comics #1. And the flying effects are really stunning given the time period. You can watch the whole thing on youtube. Tons of fun. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 18, 2015 13:57:07 GMT -5
I've never seen the Captain Marvel serial, though I've heard its really good. Can't say enough good about the Captain Marvel serial. Tom Tyler looks fantastic in a beautifully faithful recreation of the classic CM costume from Whiz Comics #1. And the flying effects are really stunning given the time period. You can watch the whole thing on youtube. Tons of fun. I'm definitely going to need to check this out, though I might save it for next month because the theme for the movie club is going to be movie serials. |
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