|
Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 9, 2017 22:19:34 GMT -5
I wish Danny had his mask so they could have used a stunt double who actually knows kung fu for the fights I'm on episode 4, I thought the point was Danny had a unique style.. he's supposed to look weird. So far I'm enjoying the show.. .sure, the lead can't act to save his life, but that story is good so far. Cage is still my favorite, but this one is entertaining so far.
|
|
|
Post by Randle-El on Apr 10, 2017 10:09:54 GMT -5
I wish Danny had his mask so they could have used a stunt double who actually knows kung fu for the fights I'm on episode 4, I thought the point was Danny had a unique style.. he's supposed to look weird. So far I'm enjoying the show.. .sure, the lead can't act to save his life, but that story is good so far. Cage is still my favorite, but this one is entertaining so far. The fight scenes looked like mostly generic fight scenes, with an occasional Kung Fu stance or flashy kick thrown in. That he studied Kung Fu (and yes, they did say that it was Kung Fu specifically) for 15 years was not convincing based on the fight scenes. For a different superhero like Captain America, Daredevil, or Batman, from a character and story perspective it makes sense that their fighting styles should hint at the martial arts that they have studied, but it should not obviously look like one particular style. Their fighting methods are supposed to be practical and eclectic -- they take what works from different styles and apply it to the different situations they encounter. But the whole point is that Iron Fist is supposed to be a Kung Fu warrior who trained with Kung Fu monks. Now you could argue that Kung Fu has many styles, and that's true. But the fight scenes didn't convincingly portray even one particular Kung Fu style well. It looked like someone just threw together some kicks and punches and occasionally had Danny adopt a Kung Fu stance to make sure we remembered that he's a Kung Fu warrior. By the way, as a lifelong martial artist myself, I can tell you that the dead giveaway that the performer doing the fight scene doesn't actually know martial arts -- lots of close ups on hand techniques. It's relatively easy to fake hand techniques, but as soon as you see someone try to do a kick, it looks really off because kicks are not a natural movement and it takes time to develop the necessary balance and strength. That's why in these types of productions, they try to minimize the kicks the actor performs and will bring in stunt doubles for some of the kicks. There's a scene where Colleen is training on a Wing Chun dummy, and she looks pretty decent, but when she throws a kick you can tell she's (the actress, not Colleen) not proficient.
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 10, 2017 10:23:29 GMT -5
I'm on episode 4, I thought the point was Danny had a unique style.. he's supposed to look weird. So far I'm enjoying the show.. .sure, the lead can't act to save his life, but that story is good so far. Cage is still my favorite, but this one is entertaining so far. The fight scenes looked like mostly generic fight scenes, with an occasional Kung Fu stance or flashy kick thrown in. That he studied Kung Fu (and yes, they did say that it was Kung Fu specifically) for 15 years was not convincing based on the fight scenes. For a different superhero like Captain America, Daredevil, or Batman, from a character and story perspective it makes sense that their fighting styles should hint at the martial arts that they have studied, but it should not obviously look like one particular style. Their fighting methods are supposed to be practical and eclectic -- they take what works from different styles and apply it to the different situations they encounter. But the whole point is that Iron Fist is supposed to be a Kung Fu warrior who trained with Kung Fu monks. Now you could argue that Kung Fu has many styles, and that's true. But the fight scenes didn't convincingly portray even one particular Kung Fu style well. It looked like someone just threw together some kicks and punches and occasionally had Danny adopt a Kung Fu stance to make sure we remembered that he's a Kung Fu warrior. By the way, as a lifelong martial artist myself, I can tell you that the dead giveaway that the performer doing the fight scene doesn't actually know martial arts -- lots of close ups on hand techniques. It's relatively easy to fake hand techniques, but as soon as you see someone try to do a kick, it looks really off because kicks are not a natural movement and it takes time to develop the necessary balance and strength. That's why in these types of productions, they try to minimize the kicks the actor performs and will bring in stunt doubles for some of the kicks. There's a scene where Colleen is training on a Wing Chun dummy, and she looks pretty decent, but when she throws a kick you can tell she's (the actress, not Colleen) not proficient. I had noticed how several kicks looked pretty low... but not in the sense of them being proper low kicks; more being failed high kicks! The fighting is one of the two problems I see with this series (the other being that Danny is not depicted as a particularly charismatic or likeable individual). In a series about Iron Fist, the living weapon, I would expect the lead to really impress us with his prowess. I know it's asking for a lot, but I want Donnie Yen or Sammo Hung level of fighting! You know, something that makes us go "Woah!" and not "meh". Actually, I would have like Danny to be a lot like Ip Man... cool and collected, not given to childish bouts of anger. I just find it hard to believe that someone as emotionally unbalanced as the character we got to have become the Iron Fist. The writers decided to play on Danny's anger and lack of control as a major plot point, but it's really like telling the story of an Olympic marathon champion who would stop running every five kilometers to deal with personal issues... It's just not very believable.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Apr 10, 2017 11:03:26 GMT -5
The whole point at this time in Danny Rand's life is that he doesn't have the poise and control of the Iron Fist. He has spent his entire life training and driven by a desire for vengeance and revenge and it was that and not his skill which pushed him to defeat the dragon and gain the power. Suddenly back on Earth he is a fish out of water with insane skills and a suddenly developed power he knows nothing about handling or controlling properly. He has the skill set but lacks the patience and tolerance and inner peace required for using the power he has gained properly.
The initial story is the growth of Danny Rand from the angry and vengeful child as he learns there is no true satisfaction to be gained with revenge. He really has a child's attitude as he enters back into the real world from which he only remembers from a child's viewpoint.
And sadly this not a martial arts television show as much as it is a comic book story. So to hope for and expect Asian cinema level action is only to set yourself up for disappointment. Hollywood seldom looks at anything more than what is necessary to make the show work. Yes it would be great to have A-Level Kung-Fu fights but at least we get an Iron Fist television show and eventually seeing Fist and Cage together as team-mates/partners. Who would have ever thought this day would come in our lifetime?
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 10, 2017 11:42:58 GMT -5
The whole point at this time in Danny Rand's life is that he doesn't have the poise and control of the Iron Fist. I know, brutalis, but I think it doesn't make sense. One does not become proficient in the martial arts unless one has better control over oneself than that. In the category "martial artist who's a fish out of water" category, Steve Englehart's and Doug Moench's Shang-Chi was far more convincing. Unaware of most of our culture's mores, frequently blundering because of his ignorance, finding it difficult to reconcile his own values and aspirations with those imposed on him, Shang-chi was still believable as a master of kung fu. TV's Danny Rand lets his emotion get the better of him any time he fights someone who's not a lowly henchman, and with such an attitude I find it very hard to believe he could have developed as much as the Iron Fist is expected to. Danny said he "earned" the title... I assume that means he's a very, very good fighter. However, a fighter who lets their emotion take over at the drop of a hat is so flawed that I find it hard K'un-Lun couldn't find anyone better.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Apr 10, 2017 12:55:28 GMT -5
I do know what you mean Raider! I can chalk it up to poor writing and a staff that didn't study up on the character very well and a Story Editor and Directors for the series who are more worried about getting the series out than it being accurate to the comic/character. Some of the problem with Hollywood: if you don't find someone with the proper passion and understanding of what the character/series is about then it doesn't come out well.
Look at Agents of Shield versus the DCU on television. I dropped AOS after the 1st season as it just didn't come across well enough for my liking with what S.H.I.E.L.D was to me (from comics or movies) and with all of the characters in the comic to choose from they chose creating many new ones. The DCU stuff while having its own flaws does at least have a sense of the writers and directors and editors knowing and loving these characters and changing things to adapt for television viewing and they "feel" like the comics while not exact interpretations.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 13:06:52 GMT -5
And sadly this not a martial arts television show as much as it is a comic book story. So to hope for and expect Asian cinema level action is only to set yourself up for disappointment. Hollywood seldom looks at anything more than what is necessary to make the show work. Yes it would be great to have A-Level Kung-Fu fights but at least we get an Iron Fist television show and eventually seeing Fist and Cage together as team-mates/partners. Who would have ever thought this day would come in our lifetime? I think that, at the very least, we can expect fight scenes of the quality of DD series 1, whereas actually, they were pretty uniformly rubbish. When you then hear than Jones "intensively" trained in martial arts and weight-lifted for three weeks to get ready for the part... well, there's (a) no surprise that the fights are rubbish and (b) there's no excuse for it on the part of Jones, or the producer, the director or Netflix. If his schedule was that tight that he couldn't commit to more, they should have just got a different actor, not least because, he wasn't very good anyway. If the schedule was driven by the Marvel/Netflix side (and judging from other comments about the shooting schedule, this is likely the case) then shame on them... there's no need to fit to an artificial shooting schedule when they could release a few weeks later and make a product that's 50% or 100% better, and that kind of corner-cutting is going to end up killing the product, when each series is worse than the last, and each is obviously cranked out on a schedule that's incompatible with quality. Ultimately, they should have just cast a decent actor who has a martial arts background and allowed adequate time for choreography - it was bad enough on Luke Cage where you just have 2 guys pounding each other, but the whole point of this series is that the lead is supposed to be a living weapon of kung fu, where instead he spends the whole series looking like some oaf who walked into a dojo at the wrong time and got his arse handed to him, repeatedly.
|
|
|
Post by Randle-El on Apr 10, 2017 15:58:17 GMT -5
The whole point at this time in Danny Rand's life is that he doesn't have the poise and control of the Iron Fist. He has spent his entire life training and driven by a desire for vengeance and revenge and it was that and not his skill which pushed him to defeat the dragon and gain the power. Suddenly back on Earth he is a fish out of water with insane skills and a suddenly developed power he knows nothing about handling or controlling properly. He has the skill set but lacks the patience and tolerance and inner peace required for using the power he has gained properly. The initial story is the growth of Danny Rand from the angry and vengeful child as he learns there is no true satisfaction to be gained with revenge. He really has a child's attitude as he enters back into the real world from which he only remembers from a child's viewpoint. And sadly this not a martial arts television show as much as it is a comic book story. So to hope for and expect Asian cinema level action is only to set yourself up for disappointment. Hollywood seldom looks at anything more than what is necessary to make the show work. Yes it would be great to have A-Level Kung-Fu fights but at least we get an Iron Fist television show and eventually seeing Fist and Cage together as team-mates/partners. Who would have ever thought this day would come in our lifetime? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. If you've studied martial arts intensively for 15 years, mystical chi powers or not, you need to be a lot better than Danny Rand was in the TV show. And there have been plenty of martial arts films or TV shows where the protagonist is driven by rage, revenge, or whatever dark emotions, but they can still kick plenty of ass. Bruce Lee in "Fists of Fury" (a.k.a. The Chinese Connection) or Enter the Dragon -- both featured revenge plots with Lee portraying someone with a perceptible rage just waiting to boil over in a quiet, intense sort of way. No problem with his martial arts there. I get that sometimes they cast non-martial artists to fill these roles, but then it's up to the choreographers and stunt people, as well as the actor, to design and perform scenes (along with appropriate stunt doubles) to make it look like the actor is an expert fighter. Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan are not martial artists, but they pulled off a great fight scene in "The Winter Soldier" that made you believe they were super-soldiers: There were great fight scenes in Daredevil as well. So we know it's possible for them to do it, but they just didn't execute it as well as they could have. And being a TV show with limited resources compared to a film is no excuse either. Look at what they've done with "Into the Badlands" over at AMC. They should have gotten Daniel Wu to play Danny Rand, or at least gotten him as a stunt double.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 10, 2017 20:00:01 GMT -5
*Shrug* I have no knowledge of any sort of martial art.. I just want it on TV.. but I thought it was pretty good, I guess I just don't know better.
I got to ep. 5 last night, and it really bugged me. So Claire is training with Colleen, which is fine (though it does straing the bounds of logic a bit, NY is a big city), but why the heck didn't Claire mention either Daredevil or Cage when they started talking about the Hand... that makes NO SENSE at all, especially if you go back to the Luke Cage series, and she mentioned Matt right away when Cage needed a lawyer.
I get they're saving that for Defenders, but at least come up with a plausible excuse.
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Apr 11, 2017 8:21:39 GMT -5
And being a TV show with limited resources compared to a film is no excuse either. Look at what they've done with "Into the Badlands" over at AMC. They should have gotten Daniel Wu to play Danny Rand, or at least gotten him as a stunt double. Called dibs on "Into the Badlands" first Honestly, I just watch the show because of the fights. Ok, visuals in general are great too, and a couple of pretty girls doesn't hurt either, but the story sucks. I get they're saving that for Defenders, but at least come up with a plausible excuse. The fact that the generic characters get popping up (Claire and Hogarth), but they never make the connection, is really annoying. You have to fight the Hand? Shit, I know a bunch of people who can be helpful. Did they even had the idea of getting Cage its own show when it debuted, or was just out of necessity that he appeared in someone else's turf, looks like forbidden now.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 11, 2017 18:58:37 GMT -5
They don't have to actually have a team up, just an excuse... a 30 second scene where Claire calls Matt and gets no answer, or mentions Luke is still in jail, or both, and presto, continuity! That's what really bugs me, when it would be easy for it to all tie in and make sense and they just don't bother.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 1:09:45 GMT -5
Claire did reference her boyfriend being "unavailable" or "away" or something of that ilk - it was a nod to anyone who saw the Cage series, without explicitly mentioning him. Much harder to justify why Claire wouldn't call in DD for the Hand though - doesn't really make sense at all, and the notion that she has become some sort of hard-ass martial artist based on her few lessons with Colleen is as ludicrous as the idea that Finn Jones can become an adequate martial artist with "3 weeks of intensive training"
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 13, 2017 16:01:56 GMT -5
Claire did reference her boyfriend being "unavailable" or "away" or something of that ilk - it was a nod to anyone who saw the Cage series, without explicitly mentioning him. Much harder to justify why Claire wouldn't call in DD for the Hand though - doesn't really make sense at all, and the notion that she has become some sort of hard-ass martial artist based on her few lessons with Colleen is as ludicrous as the idea that Finn Jones can become an adequate martial artist with "3 weeks of intensive training" She did.. that happened in ep 6, so I hadn't seen it yet at the time. DD is really the one that needed the explanation, though... one could assume Cage was still in jail, or that he was out and Claire didn't want him involved, but DD was actually fighting the Hand, so that once is totally mystifying... especially where they talk about event from DD at Claire's hospital! As the series goes on, I'm feeling about it alot like I felt about DD, actually.. the minor characters(Colleen Wing and Joy Meacham especially) are far more interesting than the lead.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 14:21:49 GMT -5
I started watching over the weekend and finished 3 episodes. I never read the Iron Fist comics, but the Netflix adaption has my attention (although parts of the episodes so far have been boring to me). I like the opening sequence and Tom Pelfrey as Ward. I remember when he was on Guiding Light as Jonathon and he is a good actor. I like the dynamic between Ward and Joy and how Danny is all alone (so far). Good to see Jeri Hogarth. Looking forward to seeing Claire Temple arrive. Not impressed with Coleen Wing yet.
|
|
|
Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 6, 2017 0:11:41 GMT -5
I dunno. I loved the Byrne inked by Hunt issues, and what I've seen kinda shows respect to that. Which comes from my artist-drawing-under-deadline' perspective/sensibility, I'll admit. I see ALL comics TV/Film media from that POV, I'll admit.
|
|