Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220 
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Post by Confessor on Jul 27, 2015 13:05:19 GMT -5
Really sorry to hear that news, Kurt. My condolences.
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Post by impulse on Jul 27, 2015 16:02:43 GMT -5
Regarding the Hulk Hogan discussion I missed by not signing on over the weekend: Is it fair that he lost his job for what he said in a private conversation? Maybe not. But he's a public figure so he shouldn't have been surprised. Since he let it be recorded. Was it stupid to make a sex tape? Based on what usually seems to happen with them, yes. Was it even stupider to using racial insults on a sex tape? Considering this was a "sex tape", why was their a conversation at all? Obviously a public figure whose livelihood relies on the public liking him, recording anything racially charged is moronic. Did WWE have a right to fire him for dragging down their image and potentially their profits? Of course. Was there any free speech infringement? Absolutely not. He can record himself saying the N-word all day long and post it on YouTube, and the government won't bother him in the least. Bottom line: Public figure says something stupidly insensitive and let's it be recorded, then is surprised when someone releases it and it costs him his job. Moving on to the next stupid thing someone says publicly. Trump, you're on in 5, 4, 3, 2.... To be fair, what I read is that the house where the alleged sex took place was wired with cameras in every room, and the article was not clear on whether or not Hogan either knew they were there and/or whether they were being in use if he did. That doesn't get him off the hook for saying controversial things while being a celebrity, but FWIW he may not have known it was being recorded. Take that as you wish. |
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Post by impulse on Jul 27, 2015 16:03:12 GMT -5
So sorry for you loss, Kurt.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 27, 2015 16:15:50 GMT -5
Regarding the Hulk Hogan discussion I missed by not signing on over the weekend: Is it fair that he lost his job for what he said in a private conversation? Maybe not. But he's a public figure so he shouldn't have been surprised. Since he let it be recorded. Was it stupid to make a sex tape? Based on what usually seems to happen with them, yes. Was it even stupider to using racial insults on a sex tape? Considering this was a "sex tape", why was their a conversation at all? Obviously a public figure whose livelihood relies on the public liking him, recording anything racially charged is moronic. Did WWE have a right to fire him for dragging down their image and potentially their profits? Of course. Was there any free speech infringement? Absolutely not. He can record himself saying the N-word all day long and post it on YouTube, and the government won't bother him in the least. Bottom line: Public figure says something stupidly insensitive and let's it be recorded, then is surprised when someone releases it and it costs him his job. Moving on to the next stupid thing someone says publicly. Trump, you're on in 5, 4, 3, 2.... To be fair, what I read is that the house where the alleged sex took place was wired with cameras in every room, and the article was not clear on whether or not Hogan either knew they were there and/or whether they were being in use if he did. That doesn't get him off the hook for saying controversial things while being a celebrity, but FWIW he may not have known it was being recorded. Take that as you wish. Yikes, I hadn't heard that. If he didn't know he was being recorded, then it eliminates the "why would he let this be recorded" angle. A huge invasion of his privacy. What he said still wasn't good, but this is kind of like entrapment. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 16:44:10 GMT -5
Actual comics content (Cthulhu forgive me) --
A couple of months ago I loaned a friend's modern comics-loving sons (9 & 15, I think, respectively) several of my early Marvel Essentials (probably the first couple of volumes each of Capt. America, Iron Man & maybe the Hulk). After they'd had a chance to read at least substantial portions of them, I talked with them a bit about the stories the next time I saw their mother & aunt & them. Their conversation, which understandably enough included repeated allusions to present-day movies & storylines, was peppered with references to Stan Lee. When I mentioned Kirby, I got blank looks.
I dunno ... unlike a lot of people here & elsewhere I don't worship at either man's altar, but still. If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course.
Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh*
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Post by impulse on Jul 27, 2015 17:03:14 GMT -5
Yikes, I hadn't heard that. If he didn't know he was being recorded, then it eliminates the "why would he let this be recorded" angle. A huge invasion of his privacy. What he said still wasn't good, but this is kind of like entrapment. Yeah, saying stupid things aside, I kind of feel bad for the guy to some extent if he had no idea he was being recorded. He shouldn't be saying that stuff, sure, but the breach of privacy isn't cool. Still, though, the whole thing is kind of sordid. The woman in question is the wife of Hogan's friend, a radio shock jock in Tampa, FL, and it was in the jock's house. It seemed everyone was on board with the arrangement, too, so, yeah. Kind of sordid all around. I don't know if there was a falling out that led to one of them releasing the tape or if it was stolen or what. LOL, I suppose it's odd that I seem to know so much about this, but I really don't follow Hogan or wrestling news or anything. I just saw this and it's interesting. Actual comics content (Cthulhu forgive me) -- A couple of months ago I loaned a friend's modern comics-loving sons (9 & 15, I think, respectively) several of my early Marvel Essentials (probably the first couple of volumes each of Capt. America, Iron Man & maybe the Hulk). After they'd had a chance to read at least substantial portions of them, I talked with them a bit about the stories the next time I saw their mother & aunt & them. Their conversation, which understandably enough included repeated allusions to present-day movies & storylines, was peppered with references to Stan Lee. When I mentioned Kirby, I got blank looks. I dunno ... unlike a lot of people here & elsewhere I don't worship at either man's altar, but still. If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* Yeah, fair or not, like him or not, Stan Lee is the elder statesmen of comics and Marvel mascot in the general public's eye. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 27, 2015 17:52:09 GMT -5
Just getting to this thread late Monday afternoon. So sorry to hear about Stacy, Kurt. Condolences to you and all of your family. Was Stacy at your 50th birthday party? If so, I might have a picture of her on my photobucket page.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 27, 2015 19:04:11 GMT -5
If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* The roots of Stan's victory in the battle for public recognition occurred many decades ago. Staring in the mid/late 60s, it was Stan who went out to the college campus for seminars, attended all the major comic conventions and made himself available to the mass media for interviews. The artists were practically chained to their desks up against tight deadlines generally producing a page a day (except Kirby). Stan basically wrote just a paragraph or 2 to get them started and he had all free time to promote and become the face of Marvel
By the 1970s when he was no longer writing, he still got top billing as STAN LEE PRESENTS was plastered on every comic for, what?, almost 2 decades.
Is it any wonder that Stan gets the bulk of the credit over the other folks who worked on those stories? It also didn't hurt that he was the owner's nephew
I'm not trying to bash Stan. I loved his stuff, but telling it like it was
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 27, 2015 19:50:44 GMT -5
Just getting to this thread late Monday afternoon. So sorry to hear about Stacy, Kurt. Condolences to you and all of your family. Was Stacy at your 50th birthday party? If so, I might have a picture of her on my photobucket page. Thanks, Rob (and everybody else who gave their condolences). No, Stacy wasn't at the party (my family held a party for me separate from the one I threw for myself). Cei-U! I summon the gratitude to my CCF kinfolk! |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 27, 2015 19:55:17 GMT -5
If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* The roots of Stan's victory in the battle for public recognition occurred many decades ago. Staring in the mid/late 60s, it was Stan who went out to the college campus for seminars, attended all the major comic conventions and made himself available to the mass media for interviews. The artists were practically chained to their desks up against tight deadlines generally producing a page a day (except Kirby). Stan basically wrote just a paragraph or 2 to get them started and he had all free time to promote and become the face of Marvel
By the 1970s when he was no longer writing, he still got top billing as STAN LEE PRESENTS was plastered on every comic for, what?, almost 2 decades.
Is it any wonder that Stan gets the bulk of the credit over the other folks who worked on those stories? It also didn't hurt that he was the owner's nephew
I'm not trying to bash Stan. I loved his stuff, but telling it like it was
Point of order: Stan was not Goodman's nephew. Goodman's wife was Stan's cousin. Cei-U! It's still nepotism but now its accurate nepotism! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 20:05:34 GMT -5
Actual comics content (Cthulhu forgive me) -- A couple of months ago I loaned a friend's modern comics-loving sons (9 & 15, I think, respectively) several of my early Marvel Essentials (probably the first couple of volumes each of Capt. America, Iron Man & maybe the Hulk). After they'd had a chance to read at least substantial portions of them, I talked with them a bit about the stories the next time I saw their mother & aunt & them. Their conversation, which understandably enough included repeated allusions to present-day movies & storylines, was peppered with references to Stan Lee. When I mentioned Kirby, I got blank looks. I dunno ... unlike a lot of people here & elsewhere I don't worship at either man's altar, but still. If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* It wasn't until relatively recently that even Disney fans knew the names of Carl Barks or Floyd Gottfredson, but you have to look DEEP into the secluded tribal wilderness to find someone who doesn't know who Walt Disney (or some of his creations) is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 20:58:11 GMT -5
If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* The roots of Stan's victory in the battle for public recognition occurred many decades ago. Staring in the mid/late 60s, it was Stan who went out to the college campus for seminars, attended all the major comic conventions and made himself available to the mass media for interviews. The artists were practically chained to their desks up against tight deadlines generally producing a page a day (except Kirby). Stan basically wrote just a paragraph or 2 to get them started and he had all free time to promote and become the face of Marvel
By the 1970s when he was no longer writing, he still got top billing as STAN LEE PRESENTS was plastered on every comic for, what?, almost 2 decades.
Is it any wonder that Stan gets the bulk of the credit over the other folks who worked on those stories? It also didn't hurt that he was the owner's nephew
I'm not trying to bash Stan. I loved his stuff, but telling it like it was
Completely agreed. I'm definitely not one of thse zealots who portray Stan as evil incarnate. But still ... it's one thing to incaccurately underrate Kirby's role in creating what we know as the MU. It's quite another to not even recognize his name. Granted, I'm talking about a couple of kids here, but at the same time I suspect they're a lot closer to the rule than to the exception. And maybe that's been the case basically forever; obviously, pretty much the only people I ever talk comics with are you lot, & we're not exactly the typical readers of today. |
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Post by berkley on Jul 28, 2015 1:35:38 GMT -5
Saddened but not surprised, as I'm sure Dan himself wasn't, by the Kirby non-recognition.
Condolences to Kurt for the loss of his cousin.
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 28, 2015 2:11:50 GMT -5
I don't think so, Jim Carrey gets a lot of flack for his views on inoculation and Bill Cosby certainly hasn't been getting any slack because he's liberal. Agreeing with you mostly, but Cosby has been very conservative on a wide range of social issues for decades. I would never consider him a liberal. Cosby's also not getting backlash for controversial political views... |
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 28, 2015 2:24:55 GMT -5
If a battle were waged for hearts & minds, it appears that Stan won it going away. Living another 21 1/2 years & being associated with the recent-ish movies obviously hasn't hurt, of course. Again, though -- but still. And if those kids have no idea who Kirby was, I'm sure Ditko would be an even bigger mystery to them. *smdh* The roots of Stan's victory in the battle for public recognition occurred many decades ago. Staring in the mid/late 60s, it was Stan who went out to the college campus for seminars, attended all the major comic conventions and made himself available to the mass media for interviews. The artists were practically chained to their desks up against tight deadlines generally producing a page a day (except Kirby). Stan basically wrote just a paragraph or 2 to get them started and he had all free time to promote and become the face of Marvel Stan was also the voice of Marvel in cartoons like Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends and Incredible Hulk back in the day...I knew what Stan Lee sounded like long before I knew who he was. |
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