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Post by hondobrode on Jul 25, 2017 22:19:17 GMT -5
Love that crossover cartoon !
Thanks codystarbuck !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 10:27:25 GMT -5
Love that crossover cartoon ! Thanks codystarbuck ! That cartoon is included in the current Cinebook edition of the complete Valerian Volume 1 as part of an article tracing the visual influences of Valerian on Star Wars. -M |
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Post by hondobrode on Jul 26, 2017 10:53:55 GMT -5
Nice !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
Here's some of the comparisons from that article...  -M |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 26, 2017 12:16:13 GMT -5
Here's some of the comparisons from that article... What I really like about Mézières' comment on Star Wars is that he's not crying " plagiarism, plagiarism", but pointing out, disappointingly, that Lucas didn't give any acknowledgement to Valérian. Sure, Mézières did not invent heroines in metal bikinis, scarred bad guys hiding their face behind a helmet, flying barges or saucer-shaped starships... But while both he and Lucas (and the artists working with Lucas) got their inspiration from many classic SF sources, Lucas did know that Valérian had been there first in the modern pop culture world of comics and movies, combining all these elements into something that, at the time, was pretty unique. When Luc Besson started working on the Valérian movie, he had no legal obligation to tell Mézières and Christin anything. The movie was his sandbox, the comic being merely its inspiration. Still, out of respect for the two creators, he did contact them and discuss what he wanted to do; not to get their approval, but out of simple politeness. I think Mézières would have appreciated the same kind of courtesy from the creators of Star Wars; maybe not in the form of a direct communication (since after all these people did not know each other), but some acknowledgement of how this French comic from the 1960s had been the first to crystallize so many classic elements that inspired Lucas and his partners. By the way, Jean-Claude Mézières is a remarkably kind, generous and classy artist. It's always a joy to see him giving interviews on Youtube. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 26, 2017 14:49:20 GMT -5
One of the conceptual designers on the prequels is known to have a full set of the French editions of Valerian. Lucas did much research in comics and was aware of Valerian.
Mezieres has been around enough to know that a lawsuit wouldn't end well and would be too costly. With Lucasfilm, the estate of EE Smith had a bigger case, with the things borrowed from the Lensman Saga, especially the Galactic Patrol. Whole scenes were lifted from that. One script draft of Star Wars so mirrored The Hidden Fortress that they started looking at optioning it, until the screenplay was revised.
Valerian had direct influence on the Fifth Element, beyond inspiring Luc Besson to write sci-fi stories, in his teens. The original plot involved a robot factory worker. When Besson halted pre-production to go to Hollywood, to do Leon (aka The Professional), Mezieres and Christin went back to work and produced The Circles of Power (Les Cercles du Pouvoir), which featured a cab driver and floating cab. When they went back to work on the film, Besson had seen the album and revised the hero into a cab driver.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 26, 2017 15:09:12 GMT -5
Valerian had direct influence on the Fifth Element, beyond inspiring Luc Besson to write sci-fi stories, in his teens. The original plot involved a robot factory worker. When Besson halted pre-production to go to Hollywood, to do Leon (aka The Professional), Mezieres and Christin went back to work and produced The Circles of Power (Les Cercles du Pouvoir), which featured a cab driver and floating cab. When they went back to work on the film, Besson had seen the album and revised the hero into a cab driver. Can't be much more direct than having Mézières work on the conceptual art, that's true! I always thought the taxicab thing in the Fifth element also had sort of a debt to the movie Heavy Metal, though, as well as to Blade Runner. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 26, 2017 15:24:03 GMT -5
Valerian had direct influence on the Fifth Element, beyond inspiring Luc Besson to write sci-fi stories, in his teens. The original plot involved a robot factory worker. When Besson halted pre-production to go to Hollywood, to do Leon (aka The Professional), Mezieres and Christin went back to work and produced The Circles of Power (Les Cercles du Pouvoir), which featured a cab driver and floating cab. When they went back to work on the film, Besson had seen the album and revised the hero into a cab driver. Can't be much more direct than having Mézières work on the conceptual art, that's true! I always thought the taxicab thing in the Fifth element also had sort of a debt to the movie Heavy Metal, though, as well as to Blade Runner. Well, that segment, Harry Canyon, owed a debt to Moebius. When they did the film, they had to secure the individual film rights for the material in the magazine, since Heavy Metal didn't own any of it. They wanted Moebius' The Long Tomorrow (with Dan O'Bannon) and Arzach. Moebius said no. They basically cobbled together their own versions, with Arzach becoming Tarna (hero on prterodactyl-like creature, in a weird fantasy landscape, no dialogue from the hero) and the Long Tomorrow becoming Harry Canyon. The Long Tomorrow features a detective in a future city, who has a floating car. harry Canyon features a floating cab, driven by a guy who gets pulled into a mystery/crime story. Tarna was a more blatant swipe, but Harry Canyon wasn't that far off. Meanwhile, much of the Fifth Element borrows from the Incal, as well as Valerian. Again, Moebius and Mezieres were conceptual designers, so they must have been okay, though Moebius got embroiled in a legal case when it came out. Funny enough, one of the artists who worked on designs for Harry canyon was Juan Giminez, who had done some work along similar lines, and would later do the Metabarons series, with Jodorowsky. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Aug 1, 2017 4:30:02 GMT -5
So cross-posted from another forum I visit: So just back from Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. I'm going to compare it to the source material, because I'm *that guy* (Deal with it). Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets is not based on the issue "The Empire of a Thousand Planets", but on "The Ambassador of Shadows", which is the better choice, because it's a better issue, but weird to take the name of another issue then (and slightly change it), also kinda weird to pick an issue which basically didn't have Valerian in it (he is in the beginning for 5 pages and the end for 3 pages, but basically in the comic he's kidnapped with the Commandar (the Ambassador in the comic) and Laureline goes through most of the things you see in the movie (Rihanna's part is filled by 3 hot guys dressed in loincloths). I quite liked the movie, but everything they changed from the comic, they changed for the worse. Comic spoilers
In the comics Central Point (Alpha) is not created by humans, humans are just the latest species to join Central Point. It's even generally unknown which species started Central Point.
Valerian's personality and his relationship with Laureline is very different in the series; they are both agents (no ranks for Time-Space Agents, they are basically 007 with time- and spacetravel*). Valerian is not a womanizer, any conflict he has with Laureline has more to do with him being more willing to go along with Earth's hierarchy, having been born into the place and Laureline being an Outsider and more distrustful and rebellious. The two love and respect each other, but Hollywood can't have romantic relationships based on mutual trust and respect, so never mind that then. Laureline gets closer to her comic part, but spends a lot of time either grumpy or emotionless (the scene where she shoots one of the Shingouz (the Pteroducktyls) is so off for her, she always managed to deal with them by charming and outmsarting them. For that matter, both are rather violent compared to their counterparts who tend to are closer to Doctor Who than Commander Shepard in their problem solving (not completely, but closer). The two original personalities do come through from time to time, mostly when they interact with third parties (so if there comes a Valerian II and Luc Besson wants to continue this way, then my tip for him is "Never leave Valerian and Laureline alone."
The Pearls only appear at the end and turn out to be the creators of Central Point, being once the most powerful empire in the universe, but then they decided to just go back to simpler lives and be happy. Still willing to interfere whenever somebody is willing to mess that up. Case in point: The Ambassador.
The Ambassador, like the Commander, is basically the bad guy, though in the Ambassador's case he's not a war criminal, he wants to take control of Central Point to unify all species into one strong order with a bit of help from their military. Alien species, after interference by the Pearls who let humanity know that the military option is definitely off the table, basically decide "Fuck that!" and humanity is banned from Central Point.
*=Yes, I know Bond has a rank. It never matters though.
Visually, the movie is pretty on point, too bad they couldn't follow the writing of the original more. Edit: Movie trailers were good though, we got Thor: Ragnarok (the first trailer) and The Last Jedi (a teaser trailer, which I actually hadn't seen yet). |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 4, 2017 6:52:38 GMT -5
Visually, the movie is pretty on point, too bad they couldn't follow the writing of the original more. I'm constantly baffled by the credit Besson is getting abroad : as soon as it was announced in France he was directing it, "we" knew it would be s***. Besson is percieved over here in even weaker lights than Michael Bay is in hte US amongst film lovers. Besson might be great at visual effects, maybe even directing, but his aesthetics are kitsch and his stories always amazingly empty. So as a movie maker, "we" have zero confidence in him. His previous comic book adaptation was already a catastrophy, Adele Blancsec from tardi (the french Will Eisner). It's fine to like comicbooks as a movie director, he just needs to read some books as well it feels... Sorry for the neg vibes on this. If you liked the movie based on its effects and images, it's all fine, but I just don't excuse the story issues anymore in this kind of movies... BTW, for all those interested in the OG comic, a few years ago, one of french current most interesting and successfull cartoonist was commisioned an episode of the series, and it was probably the best ever IMHO, with him at the top of his game, Larcenet that is.    |
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Post by Dizzy D on Aug 4, 2017 7:02:42 GMT -5
Ah cool, the Spirou par... was brought out over here, I've seen a Suske and Wiske door... and a Lucky Luke par... in the same spirit though they have only a few issues or one issue each. But I didn't know there was a Valerian par...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 4, 2017 10:08:06 GMT -5
Visually, the movie is pretty on point, too bad they couldn't follow the writing of the original more. I'm constantly baffled by the credit Besson is getting abroad : as soon as it was announced in France he was directing it, "we" knew it would be s***. Besson is percieved over here in even weaker lights than Michael Bay is in hte US amongst film lovers. Besson might be great at visual effects, maybe even directing, but his aesthetics are kitsch and his stories always amazingly empty. So as a movie maker, "we" have zero confidence in him. His previous comic book adaptation was already a catastrophy, Adele Blancsec from tardi (the french Will Eisner). It's fine to like comicbooks as a movie director, he just needs to read some books as well it feels... Sorry for the neg vibes on this. If you liked the movie based on its effects and images, it's all fine, but I just don't excuse the story issues anymore in this kind of movies... BTW, for all those interested in the OG comic, a few years ago, one of french current most interesting and successfull cartoonist was commisioned an episode of the series, and it was probably the best ever IMHO, with him at the top of his game, Larcenet that is. GOTTA HAVE THIS!!! Larcenet is just brilliant, whether he goes for the funny strip or the deeply personal one. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 4, 2017 10:31:22 GMT -5
Visually, the movie is pretty on point, too bad they couldn't follow the writing of the original more. I'm constantly baffled by the credit Besson is getting abroad : as soon as it was announced in France he was directing it, "we" knew it would be shit. Besson is percieved over here in even weaker lights than Michael Bay is in hte US amongst film lovers. Besson might be great at visual effects, maybe even directing, but his aesthetics are kitsch and his stories always amazingly empty. So as a movie maker, "we" have zero confidence in him. His previous comic book adaptation was already a catastrophy, Adele Blancsec from tardi (the french Will Eisner). It's fine to like comicbooks as a movie director, he just needs to read some books as well it feels... Sorry for the neg vibes on this. If you liked the movie based on its effects and images, it's all fine, but I just don't excuse the story issues anymore in this kind of movies... BTW, for all those interested in the OG comic, a few years ago, one of french current most interesting and successfull cartoonist was commisioned an episode of the series, and it was probably the best ever IMHO, with him at the top of his game, Larcenet that is. I don't know about Besson's perception in France or here. All I know is that I always found him to be an interesting filmmaker. His earlier stuff is far stronger ad engaging, when he didn't have the budgets to just go for visuals. I don't mind the kitsch, depending on how it's used. Subway is a pretty ludicrous story; but, he has an engaging group of misfits in the underground enclave. Le Dernier Combat is just plain weird, but fascinating to watch. However, Nikita had depth to it and everything in it works together to form a great movie experience. Leon has a nice character relationship, even as it goes into action overkill. The Messenger is where I thought he started to get less focused, though that has some really great elements in it. The Fifth Element is pure fun. It's not that deep; but it has more going on in it than the average US sci-fi/space opera film. Heck, I liked The Family, for what it was. It moves in fits and starts; but, is really good for stretches. Haven't seen Adele Blanc-Sec, yet. Besson is about the visuals; but is hardly alone in that. The same is true of Ridley Scott, Kubrick, Lucas, and a bunch more. It really depends on how you use the visuals in service to the story. Sometimes I thought Besson did it well, sometimes I thought he got self-indulgent. I'd say the same about Kubrick, such as Barry Lyndon, where the grand visuals didn't prop up a very boring story and flat performances. To each their own. When I heard Besson was doing this I thought it had potential to be good. I also thought, no matter what, it would be far better than any other attempt from Hollywood. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 5, 2017 8:16:32 GMT -5
Copying my post over from the New and Upcoming Movie thread in the community forum... So, I just got back from seeing Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. I'm not familiar with the comic books other than having glanced inside them breifly, but I liked the film quite a bit. It's a really nice slice of eye-popping sci-fi and I certainly don't think it deserves the bad reviews that it's been getting over here in the British press. I mean, it didn't utterly blow me away or anything, but it is an exciting and fun film. Visually, it looked incredible, with some really nice CGI and, actually, it's a very beautiful film to watch. The set design also looked very much like a European sci-fi comic, rather than an American one, if that makes sense. As I'm sure many here will know, the Valerian books were a big influence on the look of Star Wars and, unfortunately, I think a lot of mainstream cinema audiences who don't know any better will think this film is a bit of a Star Wars rip-off. That said, I think the writers and director were also actively playing up to this and having some fun with it, because there are a number of nods -- both visually and in the dialogue -- to specific moments in the original SW trilogy. Much as I enjoyed the film, I do have a couple of complaints -- one of which is minor and the other fairly major. I felt that during the first third of the film, it was all so visually impressive and eye-popping that the film's two stars, Valerian and Laureline, were somewhat overwhelmed or lost among the special effects. That impression seemed to ease as the film went on, but the two characters did almost feel like they were playing second bill to the CGI wizardry to begin with. Valerian and Laureline were also both cast a bit too young, maybe? I sort of had trouble believing that they could command as much respect from their much older comrades as they did, but I assume that this is how it is in the original comics. My second complaint is related to the utterly awful casting choice of pop star Rhianna as a shape-shifter. She totally ruined her portion of the film for me and really took me out of the story, starting with a completely unnecessary dance number that looks just like a Rhianna pop video. Seriously, there's basically a sexy Rihanna pop video right in the middle of the film! This scene is drawn out way too long and serves no other purpose than to say, "hey look, we've got Rihanna in our film!". It really is bad. Very, very bad. The problem with Rihanna's character doesn't end there either because... {Spoiler: Click to show}
...when she dies, the film makers obviously wanted it to be a moving death scene, full of pathos and and wistful "what ifs", but the whole scene falls completely flat. As a viewer, I just didn't care about her character and her dying meant nothing to me. In fact, I was actually kind of relieved to see her kick the bucket. Anyway, those two criticisms aside, I did enjoy the film. The two central characters are very likable and most of the supporting cast were great too. I would definitely recommend Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets to anyone who is a fan of artfully made, action-packed sci-fi. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 5, 2017 9:31:04 GMT -5
Valerian and Laureline were always drawn as looking anywhere from early 20s to about 30. Valerian always looked older and I believe is supposed to be older. Laureline always seemed young in age; but, mature in wisdom. I kind of felt like Valerian was anywhere from 5 to 10 years older, though a bit more on the dim side. It depended on the era of the book, as Valerian kind of grew into being more of a fool, while Laureline would be the brains of the operation. It also depended on the story needs.
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