|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Dec 18, 2016 12:54:36 GMT -5
Having now seen the movie, I actually found his parts really disrespectful. I would have preferred that they kept him in the shadows or recast the role rather than completely digitize him. Disney better have paid his estate well for how much they used him.  The more I think about it, the more it bugged me as well. He didn't look real. And how do we know that he would have wanted to reprise the role. The way I described it to my friends was that he looked like a video game cutscene character interacting with actors. Also, what's the legality when it comes to these things? If Disney didn't pay his family, can they sue on grounds of "facial copyright" or something like that? |
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 18, 2016 13:06:24 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more it bugged me as well. He didn't look real. And how do we know that he would have wanted to reprise the role. The way I described it to my friends was that he looked like a video game cutscene character interacting with actors. Also, what's the legality when it comes to these things? If Disney didn't pay his family, can they sue on grounds of "facial copyright" or something like that? The Right of Publicity is well recognized in a number of countries and in a number of states in the U.S. The Celebrities Rights Act, passed in California in 1985, extended the personality rights of a celebrity to his heirs or devisees for 70 years after their death. So they would have either had to have gotten permission from his estate or have had the personality rights as a part of the original contract from the first film. |
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 18, 2016 13:08:51 GMT -5
I remember seeing an interview with Carrie Fischer where she describes how Lucas pretty much owned her likeness. She joked that she had to pay Lucas every time she looked at a mirror.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 13:27:36 GMT -5
I imagine Lucasfilm owns the likeness rights to Grand Moff Tarkin and having him appear CGI'd in RO is no different than the character appearing in a novel or on the animated show Rebels.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202 
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 18, 2016 22:22:07 GMT -5
For those of you who have seen it, does {Spoiler: Click to show}
the CGI Peter Cushing look as bad as I've heard? Yes, it was terrible. Utterly, utterly terrible. so bad that it took me right out of the film and I'm hard pushed to remember anything Tarkin said because I was too busy looking at it and thinking, Jesus, that's rubbish." The CGI Young Carrie Fisher/Princess Leia was also awful. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 18, 2016 22:31:25 GMT -5
The original had Leia knowingly leading the Empire straight to the Rebel base and the Empire forgetting that the Death Star can destroy planets in the first place during the climax. 1) She had to go to the Rebel base to stand a chance of stopping the Death Star. Leia acknowledges that the Empire is tracking the Falcon, but they have no alternative if the Rebellion is to stand a chance at stopping the Death Star. It was a heroic gamble - not a plot hole. 2) No they didn't: the impending destruction of Yavin 4 by the Empire was what gave the film's climax its excitement Majo plot points in Empire involved violating the established in-universe rules of physics and space travel to a ridiculous degree How so? ...to say nothing of all the small plot holes. Such as? |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 18, 2016 22:33:39 GMT -5
I imagine Lucasfilm owns the likeness rights to Grand Moff Tarkin and having him appear CGI'd in RO is no different than the character appearing in a novel or on the animated show Rebels. No, Lucasfilm had to go to Peter Cushing's estate and ask for their permission to use his likeness. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 22:41:05 GMT -5
I imagine Lucasfilm owns the likeness rights to Grand Moff Tarkin and having him appear CGI'd in RO is no different than the character appearing in a novel or on the animated show Rebels. No, Lucasfilm had to go to Peter Cushing's estate and ask for their permission to use his likeness. Cool. I didn't know that. Thank you. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 18, 2016 22:41:57 GMT -5
I've been waiting for the discussion of this movie over in the "A Long Time Ago..." thread over in the community section. Turns out all the action's here.  I saw it Friday. Here's more or less what I wrote in the other thread... So, I just got back from watching Rogue One: A Star Wars Story. My first impressions are, holy s**t, that was good! Great characters, loads of eye-popping action, a decent script and a gripping plot. Aside from one CGI-related annoyance (which I'll get to in a moment), this is an almost flawless Star Wars film as far as I'm concerned. It was definitely more enjoyable than The Force Awakens and I'm definitely gonna catch it the cinema again. Really my only major problem with it was the CGI rendered Peter Cushing as Grand Moff Tarkin. I also disliked the CGI Carrie Fisher cameo at the end of the film as Princess Leia Organa. They both looked absolutely rubbish. I mean, really rubbish! Really false and totally un-human looking...like a waxwork come to life. A proper trip to uncanny valley. That said though, whoever was doing Tarkin's voice did an excellent job of impersonating Cushing's clipped English tones. But it would've been so much better if they'd just cast another look-a-like actor in the role, as they did for General Dodonna and Mon Mothma (the latter of which was played by the same actress who played the role in Episode III - Revenge of the Sith). The CGI really took me out of the film and is doubly annoying, for being such a glaring problem in an otherwise fantastic slice of gritty space opera. |
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 19, 2016 2:50:07 GMT -5
The original had Leia knowingly leading the Empire straight to the Rebel base and the Empire forgetting that the Death Star can destroy planets in the first place during the climax. 1) She had to go to the Rebel base to stand a chance of stopping the Death Star. Leia acknowledges that the Empire is tracking the Falcon, but they have no alternative if the Rebellion is to stand a chance at stopping the Death Star. It was a heroic gamble - not a plot hole. 2) No they didn't: the impending destruction of Yavin 4 by the Empire was what gave the film's climax its excitement Majo plot points in Empire involved violating the established in-universe rules of physics and space travel to a ridiculous degree How so? ...to say nothing of all the small plot holes. Such as? 1. They could have and should have gone somewhere, anywhere else first and acquired or stole another ship that wasn't being tracked. If Han was able to leave without the Empire tracking him then they must have been able to find the tracker pretty quickly. If it was that easy to find they could have gone to an uninhabited planet or asteroid and just taken it off there. 2. The empire could have blown up the planet Yavin instead of orbiting it to get at the moon. Blowing up the planet would destroy all life on the moon even if the moon wasn't disintegrated in the explosion. No explanation is offered for why they focus on using their planet killer for moon-killing instead of planet killing. They gave the rebels an unwarranted half-hour. 2. The Falcon travels between star systems in what can't be longer than a few days without a working hyperdrive. Just going by the physics of the Star Wars universe, in which light-speed travel is a prerequisite for traveling between star systems, it should have taken them years and years to reach Bespin even if it was as close as is physically possible. It takes Luke far longer to get there despite his having a working hyperdrive. 3. Little things like why Boba Fett left his ship in the garbage in the first place so he'd be in the right place at the right time to follow the Falcon. It's the kind of plot hole that's too minor to really affect the quality of the film. I'm not going to get into every plot hole in the film, because I'd be writing for hours. |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 19, 2016 7:24:41 GMT -5
1) She had to go to the Rebel base to stand a chance of stopping the Death Star. Leia acknowledges that the Empire is tracking the Falcon, but they have no alternative if the Rebellion is to stand a chance at stopping the Death Star. It was a heroic gamble - not a plot hole. 2) No they didn't: the impending destruction of Yavin 4 by the Empire was what gave the film's climax its excitement How so? Such as? 1. They could have and should have gone somewhere, anywhere else first and acquired or stole another ship that wasn't being tracked. If Han was able to leave without the Empire tracking him then they must have been able to find the tracker pretty quickly. If it was that easy to find they could have gone to an uninhabited planet or asteroid and just taken it off there. 2. The empire could have blown up the planet Yavin instead of orbiting it to get at the moon. Blowing up the planet would destroy all life on the moon even if the moon wasn't disintegrated in the explosion. No explanation is offered for why they focus on using their planet killer for moon-killing instead of planet killing. They gave the rebels an unwarranted half-hour. 2. The Falcon travels between star systems in what can't be longer than a few days without a working hyperdrive. Just going by the physics of the Star Wars universe, in which light-speed travel is a prerequisite for traveling between star systems, it should have taken them years and years to reach Bespin even if it was as close as is physically possible. It takes Luke far longer to get there despite his having a working hyperdrive. 3. Little things like why Boba Fett left his ship in the garbage in the first place so he'd be in the right place at the right time to follow the Falcon. It's the kind of plot hole that's too minor to really affect the quality of the film. I'm not going to get into every plot hole in the film, because I'd be writing for hours. Well, without wanting to sound like an annoying pedant or derailing this thread and turning it into a general SW discussion, I'll briefly address your points in turn. Of course, the realtity in some of these cases is that things were done to accelerate the narrative and move it forward, but I'll try to give in-universe answers to show that these aren't plot holes... 1) Time was of the essence. Leia had already seen the Death Star destroy Alderaan. It had to be stopped before it could destroy any more worlds that were sympathetic to the Rebellion. Like I say, going back to the Rebel base to analyse the plans, in the hope that a weakness could be found, was a calculated, desperate gamble, that ultimately paid off. 2) Yavin is a gas giant with no solid surface and a core of molten rock and metal. I would imagine that the Death Star's superlaser wouldn't have worked on it in the same way that it worked on a rocky planet like Alderaan or Yavin 4, which is why the Empire had to wait for their orbit to clear the planet. 3) Actually, although it may seem on screen as if only a few days passed between the evacuation of Hoth and the Falcon's arrival at Bespin, I've long thought that it must've been much longer. Probably a few weeks. The reason for this is because during the same time frame, Luke goes from being a relative novice with the Force, to almost being a full Jedi, or certainly strong and competent enough to face Darth Vader. It's been established in expanded universe sources that Bespin is very close to the Hoth system, but yeah...the journey definitely took longer than it appears to when you're watching the film. 4) Boba Fett hiding in the garbage is a sign of how good a bounty hunter he is. He deduced that the Millennium Falcon must still be nearby because the Rebels would've had every chance to go into hyperspace as soon as they cleared the asteroid field. This is just the script showing us that Fett is every bit as wily and cunning as Han Solo is. It's not a plot hole. |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 19, 2016 7:47:44 GMT -5
2) Yavin is a gas giant with no solid surface and a core of molten rock and metal. I would imagine that the Death Star's superlaser wouldn't have worked on it in the same way that it worked on a rocky planet like Alderaan or Yavin 4, which is why the Empire had to wait for their orbit to clear the planet. That's perfectly sensible. Something else that might have played a role is that I imagine blowing up Yavin (if at all possible) would mean an expense of energy many orders of magnitude greater than just destroying one of its moons. Even the Death Star has to pay its bills, and I can imagine Tarkin deciding than the guaranteed destruction of Yavin 4 in twenty minutes, for a fraction of the cost, is just as good as its immediate destruction. Hubris, hubris, you shall be the doom of us all! My gut feeling is "it's a plot hole". My "Star Wars fan going for a no-prize" self has this explanation: time dilation. It is well known that the faster one goes, the slower time passes relative to an outside observer. I try to reconcile the several hours spent by Leia and Co. with the several weeks spent by Luke by assuming the pursuit of the Falcon by the Imperials happened at relativistic speeds, while Luke just jumped through hyperspace and landed on Dagobah. What I really can't explain, however, is why the Jedi keep going on about "Such and such is too old to be trained" while it's obvious that a novice like Luke can be trained in a matter of weeks. Either it all comes down to the amount of midichlorians (ACK! CHOKE! SPIT!) one carries, or the Jedi are full of it and want to keep a tight control on who gets trained and who doesn't!  |
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
|
Post by Confessor on Dec 19, 2016 8:06:21 GMT -5
2) Yavin is a gas giant with no solid surface and a core of molten rock and metal. I would imagine that the Death Star's superlaser wouldn't have worked on it in the same way that it worked on a rocky planet like Alderaan or Yavin 4, which is why the Empire had to wait for their orbit to clear the planet. That's perfectly sensible. Something else that might have played a role is that I imagine blowing up Yavin (if at all possible) would mean an expense of energy many orders of magnitude greater than just destroying one of its moons. Even the Death Star has to pay its bills, and I can imagine Tarkin deciding than the guaranteed destruction of Yavin 4 in twenty minutes, for a fraction of the cost, is just as good as its immediate destruction. Hubris, hubris, you shall be the doom of us all! Yeah, good point. 3) Actually, although it may seem on screen as if only a few days passed between the evacuation of Hoth and the Falcon's arrival at Bespin, I've long thought that it must've been much longer. Probably a few weeks. The reason for this is because during the same time frame, Luke goes from being a relative novice with the Force, to almost being a full Jedi, or certainly strong and competent enough to face Darth Vader. It's been established in expanded universe sources that Bespin is very close to the Hoth system, but yeah...the journey definitely took longer than it appears to when you're watching the film. My gut feeling is "it's a plot hole". My "Star Wars fan going for a no-prize" self has this explanation: time dilation. It is well known that the faster one goes, the slower time passes relative to an outside observer. I try to reconcile the several hours spent by Leia and Co. with the several weeks spent by Luke by assuming the pursuit of the Falcon by the Imperials happened at relativistic speeds, while Luke just jumped through hyperspace and landed on Dagobah. The way I tend to explain it is that during their trip from Hoth to Bespin, the Rebels hideout in the "cave" in the big asteroid. There's no real way of knowing how long they are in that location. From watching the film, you kinda get the impression that they are inside the asteroid for a few hours, before the space-slug comes to life...but it could've been days. Clearly a creature like the space-slug wouldn't move very often, given the scarcity of nutrition in the asteroid field; it must lay in wait with its maw open -- much like a venus flytrap or something -- for a very long time (probably years!) before it catches a morsel. The Falcon could've easily been inside it for a week, while the Imperials carried on their search outside. Time dilation works too though. |
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 19, 2016 8:30:56 GMT -5
2) Yavin is a gas giant with no solid surface and a core of molten rock and metal. I would imagine that the Death Star's superlaser wouldn't have worked on it in the same way that it worked on a rocky planet like Alderaan or Yavin 4, which is why the Empire had to wait for their orbit to clear the planet. That's perfectly sensible. Something else that might have played a role is that I imagine blowing up Yavin (if at all possible) would mean an expense of energy many orders of magnitude greater than just destroying one of its moons. Even the Death Star has to pay its bills, and I can imagine Tarkin deciding than the guaranteed destruction of Yavin 4 in twenty minutes, for a fraction of the cost, is just as good as its immediate destruction. Hubris, hubris, you shall be the doom of us all! My gut feeling is "it's a plot hole". My "Star Wars fan going for a no-prize" self has this explanation: time dilation. It is well known that the faster one goes, the slower time passes relative to an outside observer. I try to reconcile the several hours spent by Leia and Co. with the several weeks spent by Luke by assuming the pursuit of the Falcon by the Imperials happened at relativistic speeds, while Luke just jumped through hyperspace and landed on Dagobah. What I really can't explain, however, is why the Jedi keep going on about "Such and such is too old to be trained" while it's obvious that a novice like Luke can be trained in a matter of weeks. Either it all comes down to the amount of midichlorians (ACK! CHOKE! SPIT!) one carries, or the Jedi are full of it and want to keep a tight control on who gets trained and who doesn't! Unfortunately, there is nothing in the movie to suggest that there are any cost or power considerations with the Death Star. Any explanation that the problem is that Yavin being a gas giant or that there is any limitation is not supported by the movie itself. A single line of dialogue could have solved the problem but it didn't. There is similarly no good explanation for Leia's leading the Death Star straight to Yavin. She had no reason to think the Empire was going to start randomly blowing up planets even after Alderan, and a delay of a day or two was not going to make that kind of difference. How sure could she have been that analyzing the blueprints for something as big as the Death Star for a weakness could find a weakness in a short amount of time? It would only make sense if she already knew what the weakness was beforehand. The 'too old' issue seems to stem from the Jedi wanting to train their pupils without them having formed any prior personal connections, like with parents. They take babies from their parents to train them in the force. It still is dumb that Luke became so powerful as to beat Vader, one of the most powerful Jedi or Sith in history, after so little training, but what can you do. None of these plot holes make the movies bad. I just find it weird that plot holes have become such a big complaint in a Star Wars movie. It makes me wonder if the originals would have been half as well received if they were released for the first time today. |
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 19, 2016 8:42:04 GMT -5
None of these plot holes make the movies bad. I just find it weird that plot holes have become such a big complaint in a Star Wars movie. It makes me wonder if the originals would have been half as well received if they were released for the first time today. Oh, I would expect so... Star Wars is the victim of its own success: its many, many fans have analyzed it to death over the past decades and small incongruencies that would be overlooked in a brand new movie are judged much more severely than, say, those in Guardians of the galaxy. Regarding the limitations of the Death Star, you're right; nothing in the movie suggests that it would have a hard time blowing up Yavin. However if we can assume that The Force Awakens' Starkiller base was based on similar technology, we'd also expect the Death Star to have to be charged at some point. (Starkiller base needed the energy of an entire sun to work). Or Tarkin just wanted to relish his impending victory over the rebellion and was loathe to rush things! |
|
I saw it Friday. Here's more or less what I wrote in the other thread...
