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Post by brutalis on Feb 10, 2017 9:59:19 GMT -5
i really liked McLeod's art for the New Mutants. It portrayed them as young, awkward teens not adult in their visualizations. This also speaks to the powers: as they are developing their mutant skills their powers and looks would both grow, but for this series to work as an alternative to adult heroics it needed to look and feel younger. New Mutants and Power Pack both managed this admirably in the beginning and the longer both series went on they "lost" this artistic styling that set them apart from the rest of the superhero world they lived in.
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 10, 2017 10:30:33 GMT -5
Important Details:- Berto is near-invulnerable when in his energized form
You forgot to mention that Sam is "darn near invulnerable when (he's) blastin' ". But that's OK, because Sam reminds us of it every time he appears.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 10, 2017 11:32:15 GMT -5
i really liked McLeod's art for the New Mutants. It portrayed them as young, awkward teens not adult in their visualizations. This also speaks to the powers: as they are developing their mutant skills their powers and looks would both grow, but for this series to work as an alternative to adult heroics it needed to look and feel younger. New Mutants and Power Pack both managed this admirably in the beginning and the longer both series went on they "lost" this artistic styling that set them apart from the rest of the superhero world they lived in. I agree that McLoud's simplistic style compliments the tone of the book, but I still find his art clumsy and awkward on a technical level. It really does ruin moments for me even while I can appreciate the overall intent.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 10, 2017 23:16:26 GMT -5
-- That art is REALLY bad. YES I think it would have made the team too safe, though. So much of the book's potential right now is coming from these totally inexperienced kids having to figure things out on their own without stable guidance. Kitty wasn't super experienced, though, and having her grapple with leadership could have been really fun, IMO. I hear you, though, you wouldn't want it to just be a new X-Men team.. it definitely was good it had it's own vibe.
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Post by shaxper on Feb 11, 2017 10:40:57 GMT -5
New Mutants #4 (June 1983) After the resolution of the Brood Queen storyline, Claremont seems intent on changing gears a bit with this issue, offering a story that, despite the somewhat misleading cover, isn't all that interested in action and bad guys. We get a lot thrown at us in this story, from sending out an important message about sexual harassment and how it feels to be on the receiving end of it, to domestic violence and how that creates cycles of abuse. It isn't always well done (I knew who the mysterious caller was from the second page, and he was a little too articulate about his feelings and motives by the close), but it was bold, powerful, and risky subject matter for a comic-code approved book. You can see how careful Claremont is about the harassment angle, in particular, never using the word "sexual" or outright having us hear the caller say anything sexual to Stevie, but what exactly did Rahne smell in that phonebooth where the caller had been, leaving her wondering "How...how could people be so disgusting?!" --- After four issues of intense debate in this thread, the point is moot -- Bob Mcleod is off of pencils. We've got 14 issues of Sal Buscema ahead of us before Bill Sienkiewicz takes the reigns. Buscema maintains the simplistic and innocent look of the book for the most part, but he's much stronger on the technical side and can still deliver us panels like these: (with significant help from Tom Orzechowski) all while leaving us no doubt that we're reading about kids, not X-Men. I'm really glad to have him on the title. In terms of team dynamics, Xavier finally gives the team the big talk we've been waiting for, revealing that (yes) the decision to form the team came from the Brood Queen possessing him, not Xavier himself: And yet he still believes in training them: But nothing much has changed then, as Xavier even states that his primary interest in helping them is their "...extraordinary abilities. For your own welfare--as well as society's---you must learn the proper usage of them." Once again, there's no regard for diplomacy, co-existence, sense of self, advocacy, or even basic high school education. These are weapons to be honed and stored for later usage, not people with the potential to shape a better future. And maybe Claremont is aware of how shady this all is, having the team's mission this issue be one of their own choosing, and of which Xavier is only marginally interested. Xavier assists Cannonball at one point, but otherwise the team pretty much functions on their own. And, at the end, while Xavier lectures them on how they have a lot to learn, and Stevie reminds them that they're developing their own sense of right and wrong, we quickly skip past learning that Xavier mind-wiped the harasser/kid so that he'd have no recollection of The New Mutants. That kind of trick worked just fine in the Silver Age, but here, contrasted against a discussion of ethics and morality for the team, it's just plain creepy. Is Claremont trying to cast Xavier as a shadowy figure, even in the wake of the Brood Queen? If so, it's working. And, most importantly, it gives the team an opportunity to learn and thrive on their own, outside of the influence of an overly dominating mentor figure that no past X-writer has ever seemed to know how to properly utilize. This issue reveals the first signs of Karma drifting away from the team. Whereas she naturally defaulted to team leader in issue #2, her age and responsibilities are now clearly distancing her from the team, as she is the only one not playing with them at the beginning and, thus, is late to the briefing with the Professor, while Dani instead assumes the leadership position, and Shan becomes more concerned with who is watching her young siblings at home than who is scaring Stevie. It makes sense, really, and I got the feeling up until now that Claremont was favoring both Shan and Dani, but only one of them can be the core of the team. As for the other team members, we get a lot more on Rahne here, as we're reminded for the second time that she secretly longs to remain a wolf instead of a human, and also get this cool glimpse of how she sees the world as wolf: Claremont and Buscema really sell me on it. I can understand. And Canonball, though still remarkably uncomplicated, at least get to save the day and, yes, make a turn: But Berto, in contrast, still remains lovingly one-dimensional, no further indication given since last issue that he's been in any way affected by Julia's death. And, by the way, his dad is super rich and high profile, and Berto's identity was compromised on national television during a soccer game. Is this having ANY impact on him and his family? Does his dad know what he's doing at Xavier's school? All of this needs to be explained. No one from Sam's family is going to complain if Sam is able to provide them with money (I assume Xavier is helping with this as he did for Shan), Rahne and Dani have no families left. Shan's young siblings aside, Berto is the only one with outside family connections that may prove to be a future source of conflict. Important Details:- Xavier confirms that the Brood Queen, not Xavier, decided to take on and train The New Mutants. Still, reading that scene in Marvel Graphic Novel #4 again, I can't imagine an uncompromised Xavier would have chosen any differently. An ambitious story, both in its bold choice of topics and its minimalizing of action/super-heroics, and Buscema's artwork is a very welcome change as well. Grade: A-
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2017 12:05:51 GMT -5
New Mutants #5 (July 1983) Only five issues into this series, X-Men fans still presumably trying to decide if this title was something they wanted to stick with in the long run, this and the next issue are hijacked to feature ...Whoops! Wrong one. I meant: Yes, I know. A LOT less interesting. Team America's book had just been cancelled (and with good reason), so rather than take a hint, someone (Shooter? Claremont?) has decided to give this team of motorcycle stuntmen who perform shows and also fight crime ('Scuse me; I just threw up in my mouth a little) a proper send-off in someone else's book, most importantly revealing how their Dark Rider character is actually summoned. Essentially, it's a motorcycle-riding harbinger of Psi-Force two years early. And, since most people don't find Psi-Force particularly impressive either, I think it's safe to call this entire two-parter a bad idea. While the New Mutants don't get a lot of attention in, ya know, their own damn book this issue, we do see certain patterns continuing through: Dani is still the favored team member by Claremont, getting solo time as a captive of Viper while the rest of the team has to compete for the limited space they are given in this issue. Berto still shows absolutely no signs of being affected by the death of his girlfriend (beyond that nightmare two issues back). He's still every bit the fun-loving flirt. And perhaps Claremont is hinting at a potential tension between Rahne and Dani, as both appear to be falling for him. Dani and Sam continue to struggle with their powers, while Shan's almost always fail at the wrong moment, and Berto and Rahne are able to use theirs without issue. And, most importantly, Claremont is working harder than ever to distance the team from Xavier. I've explained in previous issues how much of a challenge Xavier presents to any X-Men writer. When he is with the team, he inhibits their ability to grow, mature, and even experience all that much tension as he is always guiding them every step of the way. It's bad storytelling, and even Stan Lee and Roy Thomas clearly struggled with this prior to Claremont. But, if you ditch Xavier entirely, the very X-Men premise is shaken, and you end up with just another superhero team lacking distinction. So Claremont has been trying for a different approach for this team, keeping Xavier and his school in the foreground, but constantly distancing the team from him and giving them (and us) reason to mistrust him. First, we had the whole Brood Queen fiasco, but now that this is resolved, we're receiving more clear signs than ever that the team and Xavier are not going to be one perfectly united front. We begin with Xavier losing mental contact with the team, allowing them to get into a fight with Silver Samurai unguided. But even once that's resolved, Xavier's intentions are repeatedly called into question by nearly the entire team, beginning with Stevie Hunter and ending with nearly the entire team, especially Berto: Sure, Claremont is careful to show us by the close that Xavier is neither evil nor uncaring but the mistrust is heavily sewed, and Buscema does his best to make the reader fear Xavier as well. Just look at the 1960's Batman villain angle he lends to this panel in order to give us an uneasy sense about this shadowy character, presented from a distance, and bathed in disturbingly cool blues by Glynis Wein: I wouldn't trust this guy with my life. And, speaking of Buscema, I love what he does with Rahne's transformation in this issue. It's a small and easy to miss panel, but he makes Rahne's half-lupine form look cool and menacing, instead of awkward (as McLeod had depicted it earlier on): Buscema is still deliberate in his penciling to make these kids feel like innocent, and often awkward, kids, but the pencils are never more awkward than they need to be. Rahne's transformation needed this facelift. Minor Details:- Berto has a sister. Further indication that his family is extremely wealthy, as well. A disappointing choice for a story, but nothing about the execution, itself, is lacking, and I love what Claremont and Buscema are doing with Xavier. grade: B
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Post by shaxper on Feb 15, 2017 21:07:16 GMT -5
New Mutants #6 (August 1983) Sure, the team only gets 12 out of 22 pages in their own book this issue, as nine pages are allocated (once again) to Team America, and one to setting up the plot for an upcoming X-Men storyline, but at least this dividing of attentions allows the team to once more test and define themselves apart from Xavier, free of both his overbearing persona and the safety net he provides. The team has now completed seven missions, zero of which were done under the supervision of Xavier. They are rapidly developing their own identity and sense of right and wrong, given a baptism of fire in a scary world that offers them no beginners' courses. This team is already proving themselves superior to their predecessors in that respect; Xavier has never been there to guide nor save them. This issue also marks two important moments for Shan. First, there's this awesome but terrifying scene where she skirts close to the edge in tormenting the uncle that destroyed her family (see Marvel Team-Up #100): And then there's the bargain she strikes with him once her conscience kicks in and he resumes control of the situation. Shan will work for him for a year in exchange for his revealing Viper's (and Dani's) location. When I read this issue for the first time back in the day, I naturally assumed this deal would somehow get conveniently undone or reversed by the next issue, but it won't. Bye bye, Karma (at least for now). Claremont is still clearly struggling with how to utilize the character two years after her first appearance. Minor Details:- This is now the second time a member of the team has referred to themselves as "The New Mutants": I always assumed it was just a title and nod to Stan Lee. Within Marvel 616 continuity, who named them this...and why? A largely forgettable issue, especially with half of it given over to another team on a separate (but mildly related) mission. I think the cover, with the blasted letters and reactive corner box, is actually my favorite part. The story itself? Not so much. Grade: C+
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Post by shaxper on Feb 16, 2017 22:15:54 GMT -5
New Mutants #7 (September 1983) After two issues of not spending much time on The New Mutants, Claremont wants to make it up to us in spades with this story. First, we've got yet another rift between Xavier and the new team, this time over Shan's apparent death (she hasn't been found after the explosion last issue) as well as another reason why The Professor won't be supervising the team again this issue though (Claremont wants to be clear) Xavier is no longer evil sans-brood queen; he's just misunderstood. But whereas Claremont previously would have used an unsupervised New Mutants adventure to further explore Dani or Shan (the characters he's favored up until now), he turns the spotlight instead on Berto, a character who has been woefully underdeveloped until now. No longer... There it is: grief over his lost girlfriend and a ton of survivor guilt. The happy-go-lucky cavalier of previous issues is gone, replaced with a character who makes more sense and elicits more empathy from the reader. And, as that final panel shows, Sam gets some much-needed development as well, playing the role of wise older brother to Berto (who recalls his own personal tragedy here for the first time since Marvel Graphic Novel #4) while also letting off a playful side that is overeager about meeting girls. If all of that wasn't enough, we get so many human moments in this issue, from the awkward fight between Roberto's parents at dinner that the entire team has to witness, to playing around in a costume shop like the children they are. This is a very (meta)human-centered story, the action feeling obligatory and almost unwelcome when it finally arrives. Claremont does characters best, and he's finally interested in characterizing the entire team. All the weird disconnect between MGN #4 and the first few issues of this story finally gets put aside as of this issue, as does the favoring of two characters at the expense of the rest of the team. In a weird way, THIS feels like the true New Mutants #1, and the stretch I love most gets started with the events of the next issue. Important Details:- Dani can now manipulate specific fears and desires from people, though it exhausts her. - Rahne is first discovering the full extent of her strength in her half-lupine mode. - Karma is believed dead by the team (but not by Xavier). Minor Details:- Background information given on Berto's father, Emmanuel DeCosta. Emmanuel DeCosta is trying to prevent his wife from reaching the Amazon and was behind her kidnapping. He is working with The Hellfire Club but seems intent, at the close of this story, on doing things on his own. - I know Bob McLeod as penciler is behind us, but for those who argued that what they liked about McLeod was his ability to draw the New Mutants in a simple way that shows their innocence, Buscema is clearly helping him to do it better. A perfect contrast can be found in the panels below, in which we can clearly determine the two characters' ages just by the number and placement of lines inked onto their faces: They really work subtlety into those few lines, reflecting Buscema's influence on McLeod. It's damn impressive, far moreso than anything McLeod was doing solo. From a characterization perspective, things are really getting cooking as of this issue. This finally feels like a true team, made up of characters I actually care about. grade: A-
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 17, 2017 0:52:36 GMT -5
You do realize those subtle few lines were placed by Bob McLeod, right? With anywhere from two to four comics to lay out each month, Sal Buscema would've been providing very rudimentary pencils with very simple expressions. It wasn't until he took over Thor following Simonson that Our Pal Sal began doing full pencils again, something he'd rarely done since his first stint on Avengers back in the late '60s. Just FYI.
Cei-U! I summon the different perspective!
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Post by shaxper on Feb 17, 2017 5:57:50 GMT -5
You do realize those subtle few lines were placed by Bob McLeod, right? With anywhere from two to four comics to lay out each month, Sal Buscema would've been providing very rudimentary pencils with very simple expressions. It wasn't until he took over Thor following Simonson that Our Pal Sal began doing full pencils again, something he'd rarely done since his first stint on Avengers back in the late '60s. Just FYI. Cei-U! I summon the different perspective! I didnt, but if that's true, why does it look so much better than McLeod's work?
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Post by brutalis on Feb 17, 2017 7:51:48 GMT -5
You do realize those subtle few lines were placed by Bob McLeod, right? With anywhere from two to four comics to lay out each month, Sal Buscema would've been providing very rudimentary pencils with very simple expressions. It wasn't until he took over Thor following Simonson that Our Pal Sal began doing full pencils again, something he'd rarely done since his first stint on Avengers back in the late '60s. Just FYI. Cei-U! I summon the different perspective! I didnt, but if that's true, why does it look so much better than McLeod's work? That would be the difference of McLeod primarily being a new and upcoming inker and Sal being the "old" professional with years of inking and penciling? McLeod could now afford more time to ink and develop himself while "following" and learning with a true comic book artist legend doing the "harder" work of figuring out the layout and the design work and action.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 17, 2017 9:40:04 GMT -5
I didnt, but if that's true, why does it look so much better than McLeod's work? That would be the difference of McLeod primarily being a new and upcoming inker and Sal being the "old" professional with years of inking and penciling? McLeod could now afford more time to ink and develop himself while "following" and learning with a true comic book artist legend doing the "harder" work of figuring out the layout and the design work and action. That's it in a nutshell, yeah. Cei-U! I summon the on the job training!
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Post by shaxper on Feb 17, 2017 10:19:37 GMT -5
That would be the difference of McLeod primarily being a new and upcoming inker and Sal being the "old" professional with years of inking and penciling? McLeod could now afford more time to ink and develop himself while "following" and learning with a true comic book artist legend doing the "harder" work of figuring out the layout and the design work and action. That's it in a nutshell, yeah. Cei-U! I summon the on the job training! Then I'll amend my statement to the following: "- I know Bob McLeod as penciler is behind us, but for those who argued that what they liked about McLeod was his ability to draw the New Mutants in a simple way that shows their innocence, Buscema is clearly helping him to do it better. A perfect contrast can be found in the panels below, in which we can clearly determine the two characters' ages just by the number and placement of lines placed on their faces: They really work subtlety into those few lines. It's damn impressive, far moreso than anything McLeod was doing solo."
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 17, 2017 13:19:19 GMT -5
A largely forgettable issue, especially with half of it given over to another team on a separate (but mildly related) mission. One thing I did not forget is that it set up a sub-plot that was still unresolved when I stopped reading mutant titles twenty years later: that of the evil entity that Xavier feels being born (I think it has something to do with a crystal McGuffin seen in this issue, but it's been a long time). The poor man was all shaken up after being hit by a wave of psychic energy. Did anything ever come out of that? The only other reference I remember is when Xavier said plainly that this entity was not the Beyonder. (Chris Claremont loved to pepper his stories with seeds for future ones, didn't he?)
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Post by shaxper on Feb 17, 2017 15:41:38 GMT -5
A largely forgettable issue, especially with half of it given over to another team on a separate (but mildly related) mission. One thing I did not forget is that it set up a sub-plot that was still unresolved when I stopped reading mutant titles twenty years later: that of the evil entity that Xavier feels being born (I think it has something to do with a crystal McGuffin seen in this issue, but it's been a long time). The poor man was all shaken up after being it by a wave of psychic energy. Did anything ever come out of that? The only other reference I remember is when Xavier said plainly that this entity was not the Beyonder. (Chris Claremont loved to pepper his stories with seeds for future ones, didn't he?) Shan saw it too. I honestly don't recall what came of it either.
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