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Post by String on Aug 8, 2017 11:35:31 GMT -5
as well as provide us with her origin story, but while her story of being a lonely child among many dispassionate siblings in a race that has no regard for feelings works exceptionally well as a metaphor, it works a lot less well on a literal level. Why DID Dr. Morphia need to feel love when no one else among her species did? Within the perspective of her own culture, she's an agitator, not a sympathetic heroin. Spock didn't run around Vulcan demanding that people love him. Except that we never saw Dart secure that engine room by taking out that entire league of armed soldiers single-handedly. We're just told she did it, Pakrat standing by, cowering idly, and that bothers me. Dart is beginning to feel a bit like a Mary Sue, and there's no real tension in a book with a Mary Sue hero who can just take out everyone at any given time, no explanations offered. In that regard, why does my neighbor Joe Smith feel the need to become Joanna Smith? It's in their nature, their essence. I don't think we know enough about Morphia's species to determine if she is something of an unusual anomaly or maybe part of a smaller minority with the same feelings/emotions/outlook. As for Dart, that is more a pacing issue than one of characterization. While a shot of Dart kicking butt in the engine room would have been nice, obviously the more important story beat Conway wanted to emphasize was the result, she gained control of it. Besides, having read the series so far, why shouldn't you feel that she can do that? It's not as if Conway hasn't provided earlier examples of her ingenuity, prowess and experience as a solider and mercenary. If anything, this could highlight the overconfidence/arrogance/ineptitude of the Dark Destroyer's crew. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 8, 2017 14:10:05 GMT -5
I can't properly express how much I like this. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 8, 2017 14:20:04 GMT -5
In that regard, why does my neighbor Joe Smith feel the need to become Joanna Smith? It's in their nature, their essence. I don't think we know enough about Morphia's species to determine if she is something of an unusual anomaly or maybe part of a smaller minority with the same feelings/emotions/outlook. We are clearly told repeatedly she is an anomaly and not like anyone else. And while that can be done in a meaningful, purposeful way, it's lazy convenience if her behavior is like ours and the behaviors of those around her are not. It's like Conway is begging us to sympathize with her and also to dismiss the cultural context outright. That's bad writing, from my perspective. We've never seen Dart so effortlessly take out that many troops in close quarters. We know she's tough and impressive, but that kind of an altercation still needs to be earned. Again, if Dart's just going to win the day by herself whenever things look dire, where's the tension? |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Aug 8, 2017 14:31:40 GMT -5
The Dart thing to me was just a Wolverine moment. Claremont seemed to do this all the time with Wolverine - cut away as the fight is about to start, cut back and he's just downed the Celestials offscreen.
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Post by shaxper on Aug 8, 2017 21:25:50 GMT -5
The Dart thing to me was just a Wolverine moment. Claremont seemed to do this all the time with Wolverine - cut away as the fight is about to start, cut back and he's just downed the Celestials offscreen. And yet I have a clear understanding of what makes Wolverine so dangerous and can easily fill in the blanks and "see" exactly what he's doing offscreen. Maybe it's being away from the reviews for a few months now, but I don't have that kind of a grasp on Dart yet. I can't "see" how she pulled it off if the comic doesn't show me, and just being expected to take it on faith doesn't sit right with me. |
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Post by String on Aug 9, 2017 11:36:54 GMT -5
In that regard, why does my neighbor Joe Smith feel the need to become Joanna Smith? It's in their nature, their essence. I don't think we know enough about Morphia's species to determine if she is something of an unusual anomaly or maybe part of a smaller minority with the same feelings/emotions/outlook. We are clearly told repeatedly she is an anomaly and not like anyone else. And while that can be done in a meaningful, purposeful way, it's lazy convenience if her behavior is like ours and the behaviors of those around her are not. It's like Conway is begging us to sympathize with her and also to dismiss the cultural context outright. That's bad writing, from my perspective. We've never seen Dart so effortlessly take out that many troops in close quarters. We know she's tough and impressive, but that kind of an altercation still needs to be earned. Again, if Dart's just going to win the day by herself whenever things look dire, where's the tension? Yes, there may be more meaningful, creative ways to explore such a difference but in this case, simple works. He's trying to build empathy for Morphea through her being an outcast from her family and friends (something most everyone can empathize with at one point or another) except he twists the usual formula by making her capable of love and seemingly everyone else of her species incapable. Again, we don't know enough of her species' history and culture to say anything more concrete about this difference. For that matter, how sure can we be that what we saw was Morphea's actual memories or Psyklop's manipulation of her memories in an effort to destroy her? He could have altered/intensified/exaggerated them in order to increase the psychological effect upon her. (Or better, we can explore more of her species in an Tales of the Atari Force spinoff!) As for Dart, what do you mean by 'earned'? Again, Conway has previously provided examples of her prowess and ingenuity on the battlefield. But let's look at what she actually did. For one, she's not alone, Pakrat is there willingly or not. And again as Conway likes to hammer home, a Pakrat cornered is a feral Pakrat and we see shots of him being feral and attacking. Second, every move she makes is in defense, she's looking to escape, to get free, even after leaving the previous hidden confines of the ship's vent system. She never once goes on the offensive because she knows she's outnumbered. Third, the ongoing fight never looks easy for her or Pakrat as they are forced into retreat. It also helps that the Destroyer was preoccupied with Martin else he may have ended the battle far more quickly. Fourth, even when forced into the engine room, where it may seem they are trapped, she displays her ingenuity by turning her disadvantage into an advantage to free herself and the others. Last, after escaping, even she is amazed that her and Pakrat weren't attacked upon leaving the engine room. In keeping with how Conway has developed her so far, Dart is a scrappy, tenacious warrior not some invincible super-soldier. |
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Post by shaxper on Aug 9, 2017 11:59:16 GMT -5
Yes, there may be more meaningful, creative ways to explore such a difference but in this case, simple works. The point was made a while back in this thread that Atari Force works best if you approach it as a 12 year old, and I think this is a clear example of that. At 12, that would have worked for me. At 38, it doesn't. With all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. It just feels too forced. I'm the kind of guy who will laugh at almost anything unless I go see a comedian who I can tell is far too desperate for the crowd to laugh. Same deal with any emotion. My ex used to laugh at me because I shed tears watching films far far more often than she, but give me a movie that's pandering for emotion and I don't feel a darned thing. I think you're giving the scene a depth and complexity that Conway doesn't. The scene heavily implied that Pakrat didn't participate. He's standing there, cowering, as Dart explains to him that the battle is already over. She's taken care of it. Not sure what this is in relation to. The fight doesn't look like anything. We don't see it beyond their initially retreating. It does, but the entire dramatic power of that scene and subplot was that the odds looked insurmountable. Then it's just...over. It's dishonest to the reader because one of two things should have happened: 1. Dart should have had an "I've got this" attitude and not expressed concern that the reader is then invited to be a part of, or 2. Dart should be as concerned as she was, but then we should have seen the moment where she pulls off something she didn't think herself capable of. As it stands, the scene is setup with Dart worried about the numbers, and then we're shown it was no big deal after. That's cheap. When do we actually see any of this until the final moment of the issue? That part was great. It's the part that gets skipped over that didn't work for me. We can agree to disagree on this. I don't want to succeed in making you like this less. If you enjoyed it and had no problems with it, I think that's great. |
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Post by String on Aug 9, 2017 13:21:07 GMT -5
For the record, my responses about Dart were based upon their sequence from last issue to this issue, from the moment her and Pakrat sneaked aboard the Destroyer's ship till they left it.
But yes, let's agree to disagree then. Again, your fresh insights have proved to be thought-provoking and that's always a good thing.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 9, 2017 13:30:11 GMT -5
For the record, my responses about Dart were based upon their sequence from last issue to this issue, from the moment her and Pakrat sneaked aboard the Destroyer's ship till they left it. But yes, let's agree to disagree then. Again, your fresh insights have proved to be thought-provoking and that's always a good thing. And I appreciate your input tremendously. I think it comes down to how many of the flaws in this series should be excused. If it's sloppy, but you, Confessor, and several of the others here, still really enjoy it, is it really a problem? I'm trying to look past these things to some extent; when I note them, that doesn't always mean they utterly ruined the story for me. I'd just like to see Conway tighten up his ship a bit more, so to speak. I want to care about these characters, and I haven't lost hope that Conway will get me there. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 9, 2017 14:23:13 GMT -5
For the record, my responses about Dart were based upon their sequence from last issue to this issue, from the moment her and Pakrat sneaked aboard the Destroyer's ship till they left it. But yes, let's agree to disagree then. Again, your fresh insights have proved to be thought-provoking and that's always a good thing. And I appreciate your input tremendously. I think it comes down to how many of the flaws in this series should be excused. If it's sloppy, but you, Confessor, and several of the others here, still really enjoy it, is it really a problem? I'm trying to look past these things to some extent; when I note them, that doesn't always mean they utterly ruined the story for me. I'd just like to see Conway tighten up his ship a bit more, so to speak. I want to care about these characters, and I haven't lost hope that Conway will get me there. Mmmmh... I fear I must refer you to the works of Dante Alighieri, and what's written on a certain door!  |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Aug 9, 2017 14:31:23 GMT -5
The Dart thing to me was just a Wolverine moment. Claremont seemed to do this all the time with Wolverine - cut away as the fight is about to start, cut back and he's just downed the Celestials offscreen. And yet I have a clear understanding of what makes Wolverine so dangerous and can easily fill in the blanks and "see" exactly what he's doing offscreen. Maybe it's being away from the reviews for a few months now, but I don't have that kind of a grasp on Dart yet. I can't "see" how she pulled it off if the comic doesn't show me, and just being expected to take it on faith doesn't sit right with me. Rather than building on a foundation of what Dart is capable of and then using this as a shortcut, I think it was the opposite - he was giving us this Wolverine moment as a way to establish what Dart is capable of. Not saying this worked - it obviously didn't for you - but I think a lot of writers have used this kind of shorthand since Claremont as a way to show how badass their character is. Kind of like having the newbie defeat Gladiator from the Imperial Guard, for example. Only not nearly that annoying from my perspective. |
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Post by shaxper on Aug 9, 2017 14:39:08 GMT -5
And yet I have a clear understanding of what makes Wolverine so dangerous and can easily fill in the blanks and "see" exactly what he's doing offscreen. Maybe it's being away from the reviews for a few months now, but I don't have that kind of a grasp on Dart yet. I can't "see" how she pulled it off if the comic doesn't show me, and just being expected to take it on faith doesn't sit right with me. Rather than building on a foundation of what Dart is capable of and then using this as a shortcut, I think it was the opposite - he was giving us this Wolverine moment as a way to establish what Dart is capable of. Not saying this worked - it obviously didn't for you - but I think a lot of writers have used this kind of shorthand since Claremont as a way to show how badass their character is. Kind of like having the newbie defeat Gladiator from the Imperial Guard, for example. Only not nearly that annoying from my perspective. I think the difference is that Claremont would have Wolverine go in growling a smile. Conway and Garcia Lopez showed Dart worried and retreating. That's where the whole thing left me feeling cheated/misled. They created a tension and then removed it without doing any work. There's no tension when Wolverine enters a room full of Hellfire Club soldiers. You know what's gonna go down. |
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Post by shaxper on Nov 29, 2017 12:45:07 GMT -5
Atari Force (1984) #8  "Counter Attack" plot: Gerry Conway pencils: Jose Garcia Lopez inks: Ricardo Villagran guest scripter/editor: Andy Helfer letters: Bob Lappan colors: Tom Ziuko consulting editors: Len Wein and Gerry Conway Synopsis: Oh good, a Babe and Hukka story. The two have managed to crash their scout ship onto a planet where they stumble upon an alien ("Shorty-Man") being pursued by another hostile race of aliens that have already managed to kill his partner. Babe and Hukka assist and get him the revenge and closure he craves, after which they are found by the team and rescued, bringing "Shorty-Man" along for the ride. Dart also gets her first premonition that Blackack is still alive. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Sure, give us an entire issue devoted to the most obnoxiously cutesy members of the team. It's not like I was on the fence about continuing on with this series or anything.  I'm not sure what's more obnoxious: the dialogue, the characterization, or the visual looks. Everything about these two is just so obnoxiously saccharine that it feels like a literary brain freeze. However, the new recruit in this issue has some potential in contrast. He's cute as the somewhat mute/innocent member of the team (he can't speak their language -- do they have universal translators in this universe?)  And yet he has a half-suggested tragic backstory, suggesting a rich character beneath the cute (but not overly cute) surface. I see potential here. And yet, we are overloading this team with cutesy at this point. With Babe, Hukka, Pakrat, and now "Shorty-Man," aren't we overdoing the Jar-Jar Binks factor just a tad? And again, I think Conway and Helfer need to make a decision about who this book's target audience is, because it seems weird to go this painfully cutesy as an appeal to younger readers and then also deliver moments like these:  "Can Babe watchy watch, mistuh?" If this series is ever going to win me over, it will be through visuals and through the developing of the more serious characters in this roster -- Dart, Martin, The Dark Destroyer, and maybe Dr. Morphea, but I may get to the point where I actually skip any subplots involving our cutesy characters. Important Details:- 1st appearance of "Shorty-Man" - Dart gets her first premonition that Blackjack is still alive Grade: D |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 29, 2017 13:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by shaxper on Nov 29, 2017 13:14:47 GMT -5
I don't even know what to do with that information...  |
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