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Post by coinilius on Apr 14, 2017 8:00:13 GMT -5
It's in the DVD commentary for Last Stand, depending on how much weight you want to put in DVD commentaries, although it does explain why he spoke in Patrick Stewart's voice in the end of Last Stand. Why is he crippled as well? Muscular atrophy, I guess...
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 14, 2017 8:10:33 GMT -5
It's in the DVD commentary for Last Stand, depending on how much weight you want to put in DVD commentaries, although it does explain why he spoke in Patrick Stewart's voice in the end of Last Stand. Why is he crippled as well? Muscular atrophy, I guess... I think I could more easily accept the idea that Xavier grew a clone of himself than that he had a twin brother who was brain-dead and not being kept on premises, benefiting from the clearly superior technology Xavier kept there. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 8:49:02 GMT -5
They introduced the "body donor" in a classroom scene in the film - I didn't pay enough attention at the time (and haven't watched that scene since) to see whether he looked like Xavier, but I dont remember the film intimating that guy was any relation. I will have to give that scene another watch
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Post by coinilius on Apr 14, 2017 8:52:25 GMT -5
It's in the DVD commentary for Last Stand, depending on how much weight you want to put in DVD commentaries, although it does explain why he spoke in Patrick Stewart's voice in the end of Last Stand. Why is he crippled as well? Muscular atrophy, I guess... I think I could more easily accept the idea that Xavier grew a clone of himself than that he had a twin brother who was brain-dead and not being kept on premises, benefiting from the clearly superior technology Xavier kept there. Well, he was being kept on Muir Island which in the comics is a pretty standard place to store comatose people, when it's not being blown up or taken over by the Shadow King or whatever  it's also kind of a play on the Cassandra Nova backstory, although any similarities are probably more coincidental than deliberate... it's all kind of silly but the movies don't dwell on it at all, it's just kind of out there if you look as an explanation, but not something they have really played up in the subsequent movies. Personally, it always seemed to me that when they made First Class the idea was to retcon out Last Stand and Wolverine Origins but then they hot on the idea of getting all the original actors back for Days of Futures Past so they suddenly started back pedallinga no tried to have it so that all the original movies were part of the continuity (before changing time in story to basically render all of them really incaple of happening as originally depicted). Of course, First Class doesn't really fit very well with even the first two X-Men movie either, so whatever... continuity isn't these movies strong points (and don't get me started on how a version of Apocalypse must have happens in the original time line as well, considering it offers up explanations for Xavier going bald and Storm's hair going white,I think, it's honestly all a bit of a blur). Great reading your reviews, btw - I don't usually frequent this sub forum so I didn't realise you were doing them until today! |
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Post by impulse on Apr 14, 2017 11:33:10 GMT -5
Man, the only source of it being Xavier's twin is in the commentary because there is literally nothing in the movie itself to support that. Also, I don't think it was First Class that retconned out Last Stand and Origins, it was DoFP. This was also the best thing the movie accomplished.  |
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Apr 14, 2017 18:46:31 GMT -5
I talked to Chris Claremont about The Wolverine, because I met him at comic-con right around the time it was released (and I had brought a hardcover of the 1982 Wolverine miniseries to sign). That was neat. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 14, 2017 21:15:19 GMT -5
Man, the only source of it being Xavier's twin is in the commentary because there is literally nothing in the movie itself to support that. Also, I don't think it was First Class that retconned out Last Stand and Origins, it was DoFP. This was also the best thing the movie accomplished. First Class may not retron Last Stand, but it definitely ignores and contradicts it in multiple places. It ignores X-Men Origins: Wolverine too. Just seems like Singer wasn't interested in making First Class work with any of the films he didn't make. My review of First Class gets into the specifics. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 15, 2017 10:37:13 GMT -5
Personally, it always seemed to me that when they made First Class the idea was to retcon out Last Stand and Wolverine Origins There's no indication that Fox was originally intending for First Class to be a full-on reboot/launch of a new film series. It was marketed as a one-shot origin film at first. Once a project like that gets rolling, people start to think "maybe we can turn this into a series," but I don't get the sense that was the original plan. The teaser at the end of The Wolverine (2013) gave no suggestion that they were planning an intersection with the First Class characters/storyline for the Days of Future Past film they were setting up at that point. I think it's simpler and less purposeful than that. There was no plan, and Fox was trying to play it every which way so as to appease everyone. Did you hate Last Stand? No prob! We're going to do a bunch of films in the past that are not affected by that film. Do you want to get back to the original film continuity? No problem! We'll heavily acknowledge it in The Wolverine and leave a teaser for a potential fourth film in order to gauge interest. Did you love First Class so much that you're ready to forget the old continuity? No problem! We'll work those characters into the upcoming Days of Future Past film and maybe let them take the reigns from here on in. Fox really really tried to play it every which way. I wouldn't be surprised if the decisions that guided their franchise up until Days of Future Past were made more by test audiences and social media reactions than any inherent creative vision. What changed after that was Bryan Singer being given greater creative control over the series. Days of Future Past ended up being a bold film and (problematic or not) so was Apocalypse. Fox stopped trying to play it safe and try every direction at the same time once Singer was firmly in control. They chose a direction and committed to it. They're clumsy as all hell. No doubt about it. I'm looking forward to watching Apocalypse a second time. The first time around, I saw problems but generally liked it. But now I'll be putting my reviewing hat on. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 15, 2017 10:40:29 GMT -5
The Wolverine (2013) (...) And then some Fox executive got involved somewhere down the line, stumbled in drunk, and said "Heeeeey. Thish ish shupposed to be a shuperhero film. Can't...can't he like...fight a giant robot at the end? Make thish all Robocop and shtuff?" I mean, you can literally freeze the film at the exact moment the film jumps the shark. And then Viper starts shedding skin for absolutely no reason, and stuff just gets weird and silly. This film spends three fourths of its running time veering as far away from the superhero genre as possible and then spends those last thirty minutes as one of the stupidest superhero films I've ever seen. Agreed, and those last thirty minutes completely kill the film for me. I'd add the grotesque concept of "extracting" a healing factor through broken adamantium claws... What in tarnation???It's like extracting Usain Bolt's speed by punching needles through his fingers. Not only doesn't it make sense; it doesn't even make comic-book sense. Too bad, because up to then the film had been pretty decent. |
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 15, 2017 12:43:06 GMT -5
X-Men: First Class (2011)  Directed by Matthew Vaughn Produced by Lauren Shuler Donner, Bryan Singer, Simon Kinberg, Gregory Goodman Screenplay by Ashley Edward Miller, Zack Stentz, Jane Goldman, Matthew Vaughn Story by Sheldon Turner, Bryan Singer Box office $353.6 million Just rewatched it. Liked it less than I recall, but still a fine film. I think they did a good job with the '60s spy movie vibe, but I didn't particularly care. Most of its cast is forgettable/forgotten. Generally, I think this is best seen as a reboot of the series. It is hard to reconcile its continuity with any of the X-Men films. When Xavier uses Cerebro, we get several potential cameos: Storm, Cyclops, Jean... but no ages are reconcilable with the first film. There is no indication in this film that Magneto helped Xavier build Cerebro, as was stated in the first film. Mystique's character is a little tricky to reconcile with her character in the first film. In the first X-Men film, Hank McCoy was noticeably younger than Xavier. The ages don't line up here. In the first X-Men film, Xavier seems to be unfamiliar with the effects of Magneto's helmet on his powers. Yet here we learn it's a 50-year-old thing. The film is at its best when focused on James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender. Both are excellent casting choices, and the rest of the film is a basically solid movie propped up around them. Michael Fassbender in particular is among my favorite comic book casting choices. I get lost in his character and forget it's a movie and an actor and not actually Magneto talking. He seems like Magneto brought to life. Their friendship, their arcs, their conflict... it's what makes a good movie edge toward greatness. Beyond that, the movie has plenty of good quotes, explores the X-Men themes well, and has some other good characters and moments, notably Mystique and Beast. Before my recent rewatch, I had it ranked as my #5 X-Men film. After rewatching it, I switched it places with Deadpool and dropped it to #6. Maybe this has already been mentioned, but we learn what happens to many if not all of them in Days of Future Past. |
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 15, 2017 12:47:48 GMT -5
The Wolverine (2013)  Directed by James Mangold Produced by Lauren Shuler Donner, Hutch Parker Screenplay by Mark Bomback, Scott Frank Box office $414.8 million Haven't seen it since the theatre. I left the theatre pretty pleased with the film, but haven't been tempted to rewatch it since. I agree with the thrust of your review. I think there was a decent movie going on here about Wolverine in Japan, that had fallen apart by the time he's fighting a giant robot. It did a lot right, but suffers from being forgettable/forgotten. It's hampered by the lack of worthwhile villains. I disagree with you that Viper did a good job or that she added anything of value to the film. When it's Wolverine reconnecting with an old friend with a tempting offer, it's a fine film. When it's him and a girl on the run, it's a fine film. It just can't sustain its strengths or make a strong whole out of its strong pieces. |
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 15, 2017 12:50:21 GMT -5
Xavier is in a body that looks just like his original because he transferred his mind into the comatose body of his identical twin brother, whom he mind wiped in the womb or something. Seriously! That's apparently the explanation that is there, and hinted at in Last Stand, but not explicitly laid out in any movie. Wait...what? We know he transferred his mind into the comatose body, but how where/when was it suggested it was his twin brother? It is not his twin in any way. Xavier shows video of the patient to students as a clinical study. He doesn't appear to look like Xavier, and certainly nobody remarks on any resemblance. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 15, 2017 15:26:10 GMT -5
Generally, I think this is best seen as a reboot of the series. Of course, the very concept of Days of Future Past muddles that concept pretty badly. In my own mind, this film created more of a creative rift than a continuity rift -- any project Singer was going to be involved in from this point forward was only going to acknowledge the first and second X-Men films as canon and (as you'll later point out) even some of that is messy. Meanwhile, until Days of Future Past, each other film following Last Stand (really the two Wolverine films) sticks to the original continuity and ignores First Class. Then the rift is hastily glued together with Days of Future Past, messy as that gluing proves to be. I didn't see Scott and Jean. I'll have to watch that scene again. But you're right. I have to wonder what they were thinking with that scene. Did they really want the X-Men in their mid to late 50s if/when the films ever returned to the present? I wonder if they didn't farm the segment out to some special effects house without providing appropriate oversight. I thought of that one, but the comment could be specifically referring to the version of Cerebro housed at Xavier's mansion. Yes. While there's no glaring "ah-ha!" moment, there's just no way the Mystique of the first three films was intended to have that kind of deep relationship with Charles and Eric. Otherwise, what Magneto does to her in the third film would have been a far bigger betrayal. I'd have to watch the scene again, but he struck me as being in his mid 40s. Seems possible he's a decade older and just looks good for his age. And that's how old Kelsey Grammar was when he played Beast in the third film. But Xavier never specifically learns what was blocking his ability to read Eric, right? I mean he's wearing the helmet right in front of him, but Charles had a lot more on his mind at the time. The more problematic element for me is that the final scene suggests Magneto goes on to wear the helmet regularly after that, so yeah, how would this be new to Charles? You can find ways to explain it away -- Charles trained to finally be able to read through the helmet and, by the time of the first film, Eric has found a way to make it stronger again -- but we shouldn't have to do that much work on our own to fill in their plot holes. Absolutely. I seem to be the only one who didn't feel this while watching him. I thought he did a great job with what he was given, but the writing never felt like Magneto to me. Maybe I just wanted to see more of Ian McKellan in him (wow, I did not intend the double meaning there...). No, you're the first to mention this. I only saw Days of Future Past once and don't recall this being mentioned, so I look forward to seeing it again. Thanks. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 15, 2017 15:31:56 GMT -5
I disagree with you that Viper did a good job or that she added anything of value to the film. I think those are two separate factors. I love how she delivered her lines -- she brought depth, complexity, and personality to lines that were absolutely not written to sound as good as they did when she delivered them. But the character was a terrible non-entity/cliche that did nothing for the plot whatsoever. The film did not need a Viper and did not benefit from the character in the slightest, but the actor really made it work for much of the film in spite of that. |
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 15, 2017 20:46:06 GMT -5
I thought of that one, but the comment could be specifically referring to the version of Cerebro housed at Xavier's mansion. Sure -- But the way the film ends strongly suggests Magneto won't be the guy to call when Xavier needs remodeling help. |
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it's also kind of a play on the Cassandra Nova backstory, although any similarities are probably more coincidental than deliberate... it's all kind of silly but the movies don't dwell on it at all, it's just kind of out there if you look as an explanation, but not something they have really played up in the subsequent movies.
