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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 17:07:35 GMT -5
Does anything in either version explain where Kitty (or Rogue) get this deus ex machina ability to provide psychic time travel, which bears no resemblence at all to any of their power sets? It baffles me why they didn't just introduce a new character with that power, or just use old Prof X, whose powers are at least vaguely related.
I've been reluctant to even look at the "Rogue cut", because all the Rogue stuff in the first 2 or 3 X-Men films is just awful - I haven't seen her in anything else, as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure if she's just a bad actor or just bad in this, but Paquin is certainly terrible all throughout - even Halle Berry is more convincing.
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Post by coinilius on Apr 18, 2017 17:18:24 GMT -5
Agree with Coke and Comics on the Rogue Cut and how it effects movie, and would also like to add that it also, well, adds more to the character developments throughout the movie, ironically except when it comes to Rogue herself who just gets in the way of the narrative and pushes out another character (who wasn't necessarily doing much anyway but is reduced to pained looking reaction shots for the rest of the movie).
Someone mentioned that there is an extended cut of the first x-men movie - if it's the one that I am thinking of, it is more that you can watch it with deleted and alternate scenes placed back but they are incomplete/not officially reworked back in and there is at least one key scene that isn't included that is mentioned, but I do think it make for an interesting look at the original movie - I think the scenes do help make for a more complete movie and a real, official extended version would be interesting to see.
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Apr 18, 2017 17:26:06 GMT -5
Does anything in either version explain where Kitty (or Rogue) get this deus ex machina ability to provide psychic time travel, which bears no resemblence at all to any of their power sets? It baffles me why they didn't just introduce a new character with that power, or just use old Prof X, whose powers are at least vaguely related. I was wondering that too. Where did that idea come from?
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 18, 2017 17:38:57 GMT -5
Does anything in either version explain where Kitty (or Rogue) get this deus ex machina ability to provide psychic time travel, which bears no resemblence at all to any of their power sets? It baffles me why they didn't just introduce a new character with that power, or just use old Prof X, whose powers are at least vaguely related. I've been reluctant to even look at the "Rogue cut", because all the Rogue stuff in the first 2 or 3 X-Men films is just awful - I haven't seen her in anything else, as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure if she's just a bad actor or just bad in this, but Paquin is certainly terrible all throughout - even Halle Berry is more convincing. The power obviously belonged to Rachel in the comics. But they didn't want to introduce a new character, which makes sense from a dramatic perspective. It fits in with the idea of "secondary mutation" from the comics and allows that a lot could have happened in the 10-15 years between Last Stand and Days of Future Past
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 18, 2017 17:39:45 GMT -5
Agree with Coke and Comics on the Rogue Cut and how it effects movie, and would also like to add that it also, well, adds more to the character developments throughout the movie, ironically except when it comes to Rogue herself who just gets in the way of the narrative and pushes out another character (who wasn't necessarily doing much anyway but is reduced to pained looking reaction shots for the rest of the movie). I agree that Rogue is the thing I would have edited out of the Rogue cut.
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Post by coinilius on Apr 18, 2017 17:48:19 GMT -5
I think they could have gotten away with introducing Rachel though, as a mysterious possible child of Jean - they did have other freshly introduced characters like Bishop and Blink, after all. Though I agree that they probably wanted to have the character in that role to have more of a connection to the audience.
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 18, 2017 19:22:08 GMT -5
I think they could have gotten away with introducing Rachel though, as a mysterious possible child of Jean - they did have other freshly introduced characters like Bishop and Blink, after all. Though I agree that they probably wanted to have the character in that role to have more of a connection to the audience. It's a dramatic choice. The new characters were there to fight, not have character arcs. Putting Kitty there gave her a key role with emotional weight.
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Post by coinilius on Apr 19, 2017 6:23:31 GMT -5
I think they could have gotten away with introducing Rachel though, as a mysterious possible child of Jean - they did have other freshly introduced characters like Bishop and Blink, after all. Though I agree that they probably wanted to have the character in that role to have more of a connection to the audience. It's a dramatic choice. The new characters were there to fight, not have character arcs. Putting Kitty there gave her a key role with emotional weight. Yes, agreed - that's always part of what bothers me about the Rogue Cut and the way Rogue comes in to replace someone - I don't know if I should say anything more at the moment in case of spoilers though
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 19, 2017 7:52:20 GMT -5
Kitty played an important part in the original DoFP. Either they introduced a new character for an important plotpoint in the movie (Rachel), which would leave Kitty completely out of the story (they can't send her back in time, because Kitty would be uhm... pretty ineffective in the First Class timeline) or give her Rachel's powers. I think this was the best choice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 8:16:28 GMT -5
But... her role doesn't make any sense! They could have found something else for Kitty to do - phase people through walls etc to escape Sentinels or something - if they really needed her in there at all (which frankly, they didn't), and could have easily introduced Rachel (without all the Jean Grey link) or some other character to do this - it's set in the future, so no reason they can't pull in any other one like they did with Sunspot, Blink and Bishop.
There's no reason they couldn't "introduce a new character for an important plotpoint" - that's what they've done in all the other movies - all the X-Men in #1, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Iceman in #2, Jean as Phoenix, Beast and Angel in #3, all the First Class crew in that film, the ones I've mentioned in DoFP plus Quicksilver; and Psylocke, yet another Angel in Apocalypse.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 19, 2017 9:25:16 GMT -5
I've been reluctant to even look at the "Rogue cut", because all the Rogue stuff in the first 2 or 3 X-Men films is just awful - I haven't seen her in anything else, as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure if she's just a bad actor or just bad in this, but Paquin is certainly terrible all throughout - even Halle Berry is more convincing. I think she is a good actress, but just not right for this type of film.
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Post by impulse on Apr 19, 2017 11:15:52 GMT -5
Yeah, giving Kitty Rachel's powers bugged me about the movie, too, but I don't recall if they ever specified what her exclusive powers were in the previous movies, so not a huge deal. I also wanted more scenery of the future X-Men fighting sentinels as that was the far more compelling draw for me. The First Class crew is fine, but I like the adult fully-realized X-Men being the X-Men and kicking butt instead of the perpetual origin story. Though Quicksilver's scenes alone are worth the price of admission for the movies he's in.
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Post by coke & comics on Apr 19, 2017 15:31:39 GMT -5
But... her role doesn't make any sense! They could have found something else for Kitty to do - phase people through walls etc to escape Sentinels or something - if they really needed her in there at all (which frankly, they didn't), and could have easily introduced Rachel (without all the Jean Grey link) or some other character to do this - it's set in the future, so no reason they can't pull in any other one like they did with Sunspot, Blink and Bishop. There's no reason they couldn't "introduce a new character for an important plotpoint" - that's what they've done in all the other movies - all the X-Men in #1, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Iceman in #2, Jean as Phoenix, Beast and Angel in #3, all the First Class crew in that film, the ones I've mentioned in DoFP plus Quicksilver; and Psylocke, yet another Angel in Apocalypse. Her powers resulted from a secondary mutation which occurred sometime between the events of Last Stand and this film, which was a gap of some 10-15 years. Not sure what doesn't make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 15:59:32 GMT -5
What doesn't make sense? Well, there's the secondary mutation thing, which isn't mentioned anywhere in any of the films as a possibility, but is a (stupid) feature only of the comics*; that the power pulled out of thin air is not even remotely related to her existing power-set, and is only given to her because they wanted the actress and character in the film and wanted the power for the plot, but didn't have any sane in-story reason for her to have that power or anything else for her to actually do
(* the only vague equivalent was Beast doctoring himself in First Class and turning into a ridiculous looking blue teddy bear thing, which has to have been one of the worst ever make-up / character designs of the 21st century)
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Apr 19, 2017 16:49:02 GMT -5
What doesn't make sense? Well, there's the secondary mutation thing, which isn't mentioned anywhere in any of the films as a possibility, but is a (stupid) feature only of the comics*; that the power pulled out of thin air is not even remotely related to her existing power-set, and is only given to her because they wanted the actress and character in the film and wanted the power for the plot, but didn't have any sane in-story reason for her to have that power or anything else for her to actually do I still need to see the film again. On the one hand, the idea of a secondary mutation entirely unrelated to the original does sound ridiculous. On the other, the comics and films ask us to accept the premise that people with latent mutations that have no outward manifestation can give birth to children with fully evident mutant powers. More ridiculous still is the idea that Quicksilver, Magneto's son, can have completely unrelated fully manifested powers. Come to think of it, where are the mutants in this universe whose mutations don't result in powers? Where's the kid with twelve extra teeth and nothing else special going on? To some degree, we just have to accept how ridiculous the pseudo-science behind these mutant powers truly is.
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