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Post by Warmonger on Mar 30, 2017 22:19:01 GMT -5
For the life of me, I just have never been able to get into Star Trek, despite multiple attempted forays into doing so.
I appreciate that it's the "thinking mans" sci-fi but in my experience...that's always come off as pretentious garbage more than anything else.
I watched the original series with my dad as a kid basically to laugh at Shatner's over exaggerated acting more than anything else.
Although I'm more than willing to admit that The Wrath of Khan is a legitimately great sci-fi venture.
But beyond that...meh.
Granted I've never delved into the novels or other exrtra curriculars.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Mar 31, 2017 12:54:15 GMT -5
On the other hand, George Lucas has gone on record as saying that Star Wars is meant to be entertainment for children. He might've said that following the negative reception that many old fans gave the prequel trilogy, but Lucas's original stance was that he created SW for "the child in all of us" (quoting from his notes in the 1976 Star Wars novelization). Far from being just a kiddie's film, Lucas envisioned the original trilogy as appealing to kids and adults alike. He even tried to revert to that vision with the, frankly, rather dark Revenge of the Sith, following the poor reception that the more kiddie flavoured The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones got. Does anyone else get a hint of irony from the position that "Star Wars is meant to be entertainment for children" on this site?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 13:07:59 GMT -5
He might've said that following the negative reception that many old fans gave the prequel trilogy, but Lucas's original stance was that he created SW for "the child in all of us" (quoting from his notes in the 1976 Star Wars novelization). Far from being just a kiddie's film, Lucas envisioned the original trilogy as appealing to kids and adults alike. He even tried to revert to that vision with the, frankly, rather dark Revenge of the Sith, following the poor reception that the more kiddie flavoured The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones got. Does anyone else get a hint of irony from the position that "Star Wars is meant to be entertainment for children" on this site? I don't think so. If I'm wrong that's okay with me.
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darrell
Junior Member
Before I speak, I have something important to say.
Posts: 11
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Post by darrell on Apr 2, 2017 23:22:59 GMT -5
I was 8 years old when Star Wars came out in 1977, so I have a soft spot for it, due to childhood nostalgia. But, I also started watching ST reruns when I was about 10, and I got into it right away. The ST movies were always a mixed bag. The best is Wrath of Khan, followed by Undiscovered Country for me, and then the two first two Abrams flicks. I can appreciate the new Trek movies for what they are, action flicks, same as Wrath and Undiscovered Country. The one thing that disappointed me, though, is the opera crap that they shoe-horned into the Klingon culture. I always thought they would listen to some sort of dark, heavy metal type of music, I mean, they were dressed like bikers, after all....
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Post by Randle-El on Apr 3, 2017 11:02:13 GMT -5
He might've said that following the negative reception that many old fans gave the prequel trilogy, but Lucas's original stance was that he created SW for "the child in all of us" (quoting from his notes in the 1976 Star Wars novelization). Far from being just a kiddie's film, Lucas envisioned the original trilogy as appealing to kids and adults alike. He even tried to revert to that vision with the, frankly, rather dark Revenge of the Sith, following the poor reception that the more kiddie flavoured The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones got. Does anyone else get a hint of irony from the position that "Star Wars is meant to be entertainment for children" on this site? No, because you're taking my statement out of context. I was contrasting Star Wars with Star Trek. I think a good case can be made that Star Wars is intended, at heart, to be a tale for children, while Star Trek is meant to be for older audiences. Mythic themes such as those in Star Wars are often presented in children's stories. Whereas the philosophical, socio-political types of themes in Star Trek are typically reserved for works geared towards older audiences. And by the way -- when I say something is meant for children, that's not meant to be a knock against it, or that children's entertainment can't also have depth and appeal to adults. There's a quote from C.S. Lewis that I love that says "A children's story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children's story in the slightest."
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 5, 2017 23:06:53 GMT -5
Most of us like both but which do we like better ?
I voted Trek.
Star Wars is definitely cool, and yes Confessor has some Eastern philosophy and zen in there, which I dig, but it's mostly less cerebral and more Flash Gordon "good guy / bad guy" back and forth.
Trek is exploration, like National Geographic, examining people, cultures, places, politics, sociology, religion, current events. I see parallels in Trek all the time, and it's definitely meant for that; can't say I find the same thing in my popcorn fueled SW flicks.
No disrespect to anyone, as they both have their merits, but Trek wins in my book. I'm not hardcore, but I prefer Cowboys in Space, Star Trek.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 6:34:07 GMT -5
There needs to be a third option for "I like them both equally" and a fourth one for "They are both sh_t". I haven't heard anyone say that they were both sh*t. Unless you think that.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Apr 6, 2017 7:14:05 GMT -5
There needs to be a third option for "I like them both equally" and a fourth one for "They are both sh_t". I haven't heard anyone say that they were both sh*t. Unless you think that. There oughta be a law against dem people, I tells ya!
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 19, 2018 23:55:37 GMT -5
Both. Or neither. SW's aesthetics beats ST's hands-down, but I'll take ST's nuanced villains over SW's 2-dimensional black hats any day of the week.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 5:02:03 GMT -5
Having watched the first nine movies of Star Trek and the first three of Star Wars and haven't seen any other Star Wars movies at all because I just don't care for it. Darth Maul is no Darth Vader and having said that ... I'm a true Star Trek Fan and not a Star Wars fan. That's how I see it.
Star Trek rules!
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Post by String on Jan 20, 2018 12:25:38 GMT -5
While I do love both, for me, Trek wins out in the end.
Star Wars is more in the vein of Saturday afternoon popcorn matinee films, just fun and excitement to watch. I can see Confessor's point about the possible deeper philosophical meanings contained within the franchise but that is really dependent on the creator's focus at the time. I've found some deeper meanings about life and the Force within the pages of the EU books instead of the films themselves. So it just depends on how deep thematically whichever creator (in whatever medium) decides to delve past all the blaster fire and saber slashing.
Trek, on the hand, based on Roddenberry's original vision, is an anachronism today yet is needed now more than ever. The ideal of a utopia (in contrast to sci-fi's current need to show only dystopias) is a vaunted and human ideal worth striving towards and the cult success that the franchise has built over the decades rests upon that ideal; that at some point, we as a species will get our act together and when we spread to the stars, we will encounter other races and civilizations in peace and mutual cooperation.
Plus, I love how Trek is rooted in actual science and physics. How the series has inspired countless people over the years to pursue careers in science and technology that have since gone on to improve our understanding of the universe and the overall possible quality of our lives. I have a ton of tech manuals in reference to Trek, both speculative and actual, that I have re-read many times over for their enjoyment and insight.
Perfect example: the TNG episode 'Relics'. When they explain how Scotty could've possibly survived for that long inside a transporter buffer, the wife and I both looked at each other and said, "That could work". The franchise builds upon current scientific theories and follows through on their own internal continuity. It's wonderful.
The different series have their own respective highlights. DS9 has to be one of the best self-contained sci-fi stories ever committed to the small screen. Voyager, with it's hiccups to the Borg, contains some of the best time-travel episodes within the whole franchise. Enterprise got off to a rocky start but had settled into a good rhythm with the last season painting a fascinating new picture of Vulcan's past, how Khan's Augments affected Klingon society, the technological development of the Mirror Universe and possible allusions to the upcoming Earth/Romulan war (pity that Berman derailed it all with a very poor final episode).
In other media, I've followed more of Trek than I have of Wars. Even though I love the Star Wars EU novels, I have enjoyed Trek novels far more so with the insight and the adventures they create. Same with the comics. DC's first Trek comic series, which followed closely on the heels of Search for Spock, remains one of my top favorites books ever. The Trek cartoon was very enjoyable (though Clone Wars and Rebels are quickly catching up to it).
Star Wars is pure fun which isn't bad, but for me, for it's visions of the future, our society, our race, our place in the universe, coupled with desire for exploration and the technology to achieve that, Trek is much more enjoyable.
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 20, 2018 21:51:41 GMT -5
I love how Trek is rooted in actual science and physics. Uh ...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 21, 2018 10:04:59 GMT -5
I love how Trek is rooted in actual science and physics. Uh ...We have to reverse the flow of tetryon particles to generate a subspace pulse that will knock out their graviton emitter! Or, as is rumoured to be in the script: “technobabble”. Though it is true that while Star Wars is pure fantasy, Star Trek gives the impression of being based on some kind of advanced science, and truly did set many people on the path to study the real thing.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 21, 2018 11:39:50 GMT -5
There's a whole series of books devoted to debunking the "science" of Star Trek. Warp drive, the transporter, shapeshifting: all fantasy elements dressed in sci-fi drag with no hard science behind them. I love Trek, but I don't pretend it's premised on anything but imagination.
Cei-U! I summon the popped balloon!
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Post by berkley on Jan 22, 2018 19:04:57 GMT -5
When they're at their best I like them both very much, but I think the original Star Trek tv show with Kirk and Spock and the gang is probably the one that's left the deepest impression on me since I saw it at an early age.
OTOH, I still go to see all the new Star Wars movies when they come out (haven't managed to get to the current one yet but I will as soon as I can), while I gave up on new Star Trek product long ago, whether it's movies or tv series.
And I don't think any of the Trek movies are as good as Star Wars. I think I might even say that the worst Star Wars movies are better than the best Star Trek movies. I haven't tried any of the Star Wars tv shows, though.
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