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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2017 9:11:02 GMT -5
Always amazed to hear people praise O'Neil's Daredevil and Iron Man runs. I thought both runs were crap. Ah well, to each their own! Cei-U! I celebrate the diversity! I was wondering when you were going to add your voice to this. I still can't believe you didn't like the Iron man run, unless it's after you stopped reading the new stuff. |
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Post by brutalis on Apr 6, 2017 10:39:32 GMT -5
Always amazed to hear people praise O'Neil's Daredevil and Iron Man runs. I thought both runs were crap. Ah well, to each their own! Cei-U! I celebrate the diversity! I was collecting both of these off the rack at the time and have since traded them in for store credit. All i can say is i remember almost nothing from Daredevil or Iron Man during the O'Neill runs. I felt at the time that O'Neill didn't have much to say with either hero and that the company edict was most likely to keep the flavor of the creative teams that had gone before which made both comics big sellers. I do remember the time Rhodey took on the Iron Mantle and thinking it only devalued Stark in showing it was the armor and not the man inside that made Iron Man a hero. I can't speak to them both being crap but i can say i have had more memorable bowel movements which i remembered more than either series  |
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Post by rom on Apr 7, 2017 17:20:57 GMT -5
Well, sorry to hear that not everyone liked the Denny O'Neil/Klaus Janson/David Mazzuchelli runs on DD (post FM's first DD run, and pre-Born Again). I thought these comics were great, and IMHO they were, for the most part, fantastic issues. There was one particular stand-alone Ben Urich story before #200 (it came out around 1983) that was one of the best DD stories ever - very well-done.
I definitely think a lot of fans at the time were unfairly comparing these issues to Miller's run (which came out directly beforehand) and found the comics lacking as a result.
By the same token, I was a huge fan of Classic Moon Knight in the '80's - and, after Bill Sienciewicz left the title I still collected these comics, and thought the handful of issues that came out after that were decent - sure, the artist(s) weren't as iconic as BS, but they were still good & the stories were also solid. I also liked the art/story in the later follow-up mini-series MK: Fist of Khonshu.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 22:56:52 GMT -5
Well, sorry to hear that not everyone liked the Denny O'Neil/Klaus Janson/David Mazzuchelli runs on DD (post FM's first DD run, and pre-Born Again). I thought these comics were great, and IMHO they were, for the most part, fantastic issues. There was one particular stand-alone Ben Urich story before #200 (it came out around 1983) that was one of the best DD stories ever - very well-done. I definitely think a lot of fans at the time were unfairly comparing these issues to Miller's run (which came out directly beforehand) and found the comics lacking as a result. By the same token, I was a huge fan of Classic Moon Knight in the '80's - and, after Bill Sienciewicz left the title I still collected these comics, and thought the handful of issues that came out after that were decent - sure, the artist(s) weren't as iconic as BS, but they were still good & the stories were also solid. I also liked the art/story in the later follow-up mini-series MK: Fist of Khonshu. Count me in as another fan of those post Miller Daredevil issues all the way until Born Again. I actually reread those more than the Miller ones though I love those issues as well. Don't get the all the hate. I agree that the Ben Urich issue is an excellent quiet standalone story done by Alan Brennert with great Janson ink and art.  . |
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 7, 2017 23:10:58 GMT -5
For the record, the above comic by Brennert and Janson is my favorite issue of Daredevil not by Miller or Wood.
Cei-U!
I summon my softer side!
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bran
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Post by bran on Apr 8, 2017 4:55:25 GMT -5
Just because I never heard for it (until yesterday) doesn't mean it's underrated, but it's damn good read:  JR JR art, Frank Miller script and Janson ink, it doesn't get any better than that. They should collaborate more. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 8, 2017 7:17:21 GMT -5
I have to admit to dropping DD after #200. I did buy the born again arc, though. The Miller run is a hard act to follow art wise, and I felt that Jansen is a below average penciler.
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bran
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Post by bran on Apr 9, 2017 8:34:13 GMT -5
Here is one grossly under-appreciated timeless classic: Medusa Chain |
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Post by rom on Apr 9, 2017 13:33:52 GMT -5
Here is one grossly under-appreciated timeless classic: Medusa ChainI always wanted to read Medusa Chain & many of the other DC graphic novels from the '80's, but never did due to having limited funds as a kid. There's actually quite a few cool ones that came during that era, including "Star Raiders", "Warlords", etc. - most of these didn't have any connection to the DC universe, and were stand-alone. Unfortunately, AFAIK most of these have never been reprinted, with the exception of "Hunger Dogs" - which was connected to Jack Kirby's Fourth World universe. Here's an interesting article on '80's graphic novels - very underrated, and most of these have been forgotten today: blindedmewithcomics.blogspot.com/2009/05/80s-graphic-novels-aka-remember-those.html |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 9, 2017 13:41:33 GMT -5
Chuck Dixon's "The Narrow Path" from Robin Annual #3, as I've previously mentioned, was one of the books that got me into comics and started my love affair with Edo Period dramas. I really wish there had been something of a sequel mini-series to continue the story (maybe as a prequel), because it was so friggin' good  |
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Post by rom on Apr 9, 2017 13:50:01 GMT -5
I have to admit to dropping DD after #200. I did buy the born again arc, though. The Miller run is a hard act to follow art wise, and I felt that Jansen is a below average penciler. I'm not going to argue that Klaus Jansen was as good of a penciler as FM - he wasn't - however, since Jansen had inked some of FM's pencils when FM was taking the lead on the series from an art stand-point, it made perfect sense to have KJ step in after Miller left. And, I felt this artistic continuity was nice. And, I would also argue that David Mazzucheli's later pencils on the book (both pre-BA & when he drew the actual BA storyline) were almost as good - if not as good - as FM's pencils had been. And, yes, #192 was a great stand-alone Ben Urich story - probably one of the best individual DD issues of the classic run. |
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Post by String on Apr 9, 2017 19:34:35 GMT -5
Always amazed to hear people praise O'Neil's Daredevil and Iron Man runs. I thought both runs were crap. Ah well, to each their own! Cei-U! I celebrate the diversity! I do remember the time Rhodey took on the Iron Mantle and thinking it only devalued Stark in showing it was the armor and not the man inside that made Iron Man a hero. I disagree. If anything, it showed the mettle needed to make an effective hero. Rhodey had his doubts and insecurities over donning the armor (compounded by his concern over Tony's well-being), he had to learn under trial-by-fire very quickly while Tony began his long road to recovery, which was the best thing about O'Neil's run, that Tony's alcoholism was treated as a disease and not something easily fixed by next month's issue. So O'Neil was showing Rhodey's journey to becoming a hero in his own right, to realize his own potential while showing Tony's long journey to resuming his rightful status as the hero that he is. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 9, 2017 19:44:43 GMT -5
I have to admit to dropping DD after #200. I did buy the born again arc, though. The Miller run is a hard act to follow art wise, and I felt that Jansen is a below average penciler. And, I felt this artistic continuity was nice. And, I would also argue that David Mazzucheli's later pencils on the book (both pre-BA & when he drew the actual BA storyline) were almost as good - if not as good - as FM's pencils had been. And, yes, #192 was a great stand-alone Ben Urich story - probably one of the best individual DD issues of the classic run. They should have kept Jansen as an inker and used a more solid penciler. I was and am still ,shocked at how bad Jansens pencils are. |
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bran
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Post by bran on Apr 10, 2017 16:18:04 GMT -5
Here is one grossly under-appreciated timeless classic: Medusa ChainI always wanted to read Medusa Chain & many of the other DC graphic novels from the '80's, but never did due to having limited funds as a kid. There's actually quite a few cool ones that came during that era, including "Star Raiders", "Warlords", etc. - most of these didn't have any connection to the DC universe, and were stand-alone. Unfortunately, AFAIK most of these have never been reprinted, with the exception of "Hunger Dogs" - which was connected to Jack Kirby's Fourth World universe. Here's an interesting article on '80's graphic novels - very underrated, and most of these have been forgotten today: blindedmewithcomics.blogspot.com/2009/05/80s-graphic-novels-aka-remember-those.htmlYeah, distribution is the king. If you dig space operas here is another one, underappreciated big time: Lost in Time There are 10 novels altogether. As for translation that I don't know. Just reading latest Meta-Baron series (Wilhem-100), English translation is mediocre at best. Humanoids need to hire an American, who is also cb fan, Jodorowsky fan in particular, and who is bilingual. Can't be that hard. |
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