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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 19, 2023 17:33:42 GMT -5
Sorry bro, Meonch wrote some crappy stories. Byrne rescued the book.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 22, 2023 8:09:46 GMT -5
Sorry bro, Meonch wrote some crappy stories. Byrne rescued the book. Interestingly enough, of the first five issues, two are John Byrne stories, and I can honestly say I like the Moench ones better. Of course, Byrne will get better later on, but maybe so will Moench. I'm not expecting this run to end up being a classic, but maybe it'll be an under-appreciated gem. As of now, I prefer all five issues to the post-Kirby Stan Lee stories I've read. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 22, 2023 10:38:03 GMT -5
Sorry bro, Meonch wrote some crappy stories. Byrne rescued the book. Interestingly enough, of the first five issues, two are John Byrne stories, and I can honestly say I like the Moench ones better. Of course, Byrne will get better later on, but maybe so will Moench. I'm not expecting this run to end up being a classic, but maybe it'll be an under-appreciated gem. As of now, I prefer all five issues to the post-Kirby Stan Lee stories I've read. Perhaps i was a little harsh, his stories departed from the usual recycling of Dr Doom , Galactus etc. so he gets some credit for that. They weren’t terrible for what it was. Senkeweitz was a bad fit for the book. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 17, 2023 12:53:29 GMT -5
Well I can see where folks are coming from now. Moench's run started strong on ideas, if not characters, but it's really going down the tube by the end. I've got two issues of his run left, and it's a genuine chore to finish them. The stories are silly, and the characters are becoming seriously unlikable. That being said, I'd likely return to #219-227 again.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Dec 17, 2023 19:56:21 GMT -5
Perhaps i was a little harsh, his stories departed from the usual recycling of Dr Doom , Galactus etc. so he gets some credit for that. They weren’t terrible for what it was. Senkeweitz was a bad fit for the book. Moench wanted to use the classic characters, but the editor asked him to avoid them for a year, by which time Moench has moved on to writing Thor. Moench also thought Sienkiewicz was a poor fit, and said he would have preferred to have had Rich Buckler pencilling. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2023 8:55:10 GMT -5
Moench wanted to use the classic characters, but the editor asked him to avoid them for a year, by which time Moench has moved on to writing Thor. Pretty much the same thing happens at Thor. Moench is told to avoid using Asgard and to keep everything street-level. Then, as soon as he leaves, a hot artist/writer is given free reign to do whatever he wants and is praised for bringing the character "back to basics". It's like Shooter was trying to make Moench fail in both cases. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 18, 2023 10:35:21 GMT -5
Moench wanted to use the classic characters, but the editor asked him to avoid them for a year, by which time Moench has moved on to writing Thor. Pretty much the same thing happens at Thor. Moench is told to avoid using Asgard and to keep everything street-level. Then, as soon as he leaves, a hot artist/writer is given free reign to do whatever he wants and is praised for bringing the character "back to basics". It's like Shooter was trying to make Moench fail in both cases. Thor is only interesting when you focus on Asgard and his Godhood. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 19, 2023 19:25:13 GMT -5
It's like Shooter was trying to make Moench fail in both cases. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's exactly what Shooter was doing.
Cei-U! I summon the office politics!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 2, 2024 1:36:57 GMT -5
Well the first few issues of Byrne's run really didn't do much for me. I actually liked Moench's work better. But then I got to #234 tonight. Wow. This is the one with Skip Collins, an ordinary middle class nobody who has the power to alter reality itself but has such a mundane imagination that he's never realized this. Amazing concept and great writing. Of course, where it ultimately goes is a bit sloppy. Of course Skip is coincidentally visiting New York and at ground zero of an alien attack that destroys most of Earth so that he can say, "gee, this never should have happened" and reset everything. It's lazy and dumb, but the rest was phenomenal, as was the depiction of the devastation itself.
I'm hoping to see more (and better) stories like this moving forward. Still not particulartly enamored with Byrne'd depiction of the Four themselves, but more bold concepts like this will keep me interested all the same.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jan 2, 2024 9:27:39 GMT -5
Well the first few issues of Byrne's run really didn't do much for me. I actually liked Moench's work better. But then I got to #234 tonight. Wow. This is the one with Skip Collins, an ordinary middle class nobody who has the power to alter reality itself but has such a mundane imagination that he's never realized this. Amazing concept and great writing. Of course, where it ultimately goes is a bit sloppy. Of course Skip is coincidentally visiting New York and at ground zero of an alien attack that destroys most of Earth so that he can say, "gee, this never should have happened" and reset everything. It's lazy and dumb, but the rest was phenomenal, as was the depiction of the devastation itself. I'm hoping to see more (and better) stories like this moving forward. Still not particulartly enamored with Byrne'd depiction of the Four themselves, but more bold concepts like this will keep me interested all the same. It's been a long time since I read this run, and I'm nowhere near as enamored with Byrne as I once was, but you're approaching the sweet spot that lasts nearly 30 issues. Interested if you will feel the same way |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 2, 2024 9:54:55 GMT -5
Well the first few issues of Byrne's run really didn't do much for me. I actually liked Moench's work better. But then I got to #234 tonight. Wow. This is the one with Skip Collins, an ordinary middle class nobody who has the power to alter reality itself but has such a mundane imagination that he's never realized this. Amazing concept and great writing. Of course, where it ultimately goes is a bit sloppy. Of course Skip is coincidentally visiting New York and at ground zero of an alien attack that destroys most of Earth so that he can say, "gee, this never should have happened" and reset everything. It's lazy and dumb, but the rest was phenomenal, as was the depiction of the devastation itself. It's been a very long time, but didn't Skip wish he could see the FF in action? That would mean he was the cause of Ego's arrival, so it's not a coincidence. What didn't work for me is that while Earth is repaired and nobody seems to remember anything was ever amiss, the FF are apparently unaffected. But maybe Skip's power is even greater than we think... he can seamlessly alter comic-book continuity!!!  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 2, 2024 10:02:39 GMT -5
Well the first few issues of Byrne's run really didn't do much for me. I actually liked Moench's work better. But then I got to #234 tonight. Wow. This is the one with Skip Collins, an ordinary middle class nobody who has the power to alter reality itself but has such a mundane imagination that he's never realized this. Amazing concept and great writing. Of course, where it ultimately goes is a bit sloppy. Of course Skip is coincidentally visiting New York and at ground zero of an alien attack that destroys most of Earth so that he can say, "gee, this never should have happened" and reset everything. It's lazy and dumb, but the rest was phenomenal, as was the depiction of the devastation itself. It's been a very long time, but didn't Skip wish he could see the FF in action? That would mean he was the cause of Ego's arrival, so it's not a coincidence. I'd considered that, but the whole point is that Skip has a mundane imagination. "See the Fantastic Four in action" for him would be more like the previous issue, where Johnny solves a cold case murder, not all of civilization being decimated by Ego the Living Planet. Besides, we'll learn later in this issue that his powers don't extend out into space, where this destruction is coming from. This part didn't bother me so much. It stands to reason that Skip's powers have a physical range, and that outer space is so far beyond the scope of his mundane imagination that anyone out there would be exempt from his changes. Too bad Skip couldn't follow over into Byrne's Superman run and undo a few things there... |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 2, 2024 10:50:34 GMT -5
What didn't work for me is that while Earth is repaired and nobody seems to remember anything was ever amiss, the FF are apparently unaffected. This part didn't bother me so much. It stands to reason that Skip's powers have a physical range, and that outer space is so far beyond the scope of his mundane imagination that anyone out there would be exempt from his changes. I don't quite understand how Skip's reality alterations could have a limited range; I mean, if Earth is destroyed, it should be destroyed for people living on Mars just as much as for Earthmen. That Skip couldn't cause Dejah Thoris to appear on Mars I understand, but if she appeared on Earth, she should be real to everyone. As for our heroic quartet fighting Ego on space, either it should have been brought back to Earth as if nothing had ever happened (if Skip's power extend everywhere) or it should have come home to a surprisingly un-destroyed New-York (if Skip's power is local). That's what didn't work for me: Byrne tried to have his cake and eat it too, having the FF go to space to fight the cause of a disaster that never happened, and not noticing the paradox. Or maybe Reed did notice and I just forgot... a simple technobabble explanation would have done the trick. |
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JakeB
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Post by JakeB on Jan 2, 2024 17:56:47 GMT -5
I’m not saying this is my favorite run, but I really enjoyed Millar & Hitch’s short run on the title, which was just brimming with bold ideas.
I loved Reed being tempted by a a woman whose genius matched his own, etc.
I’ve little interest in continuity, preserving the past, etc. I prefer to see a writer’s run as an interpretation of the characters and story beats, a fresh, sometimes wildly divergent reading that emphasizes previously hidden or suppressed facets, if only for a time.
The best Marvel writers of the ‘70s were young iconoclasts. Here’s to more runs where Johnny interrupts a fight with a hot super villain so they can have sex.
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