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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 10, 2017 10:11:28 GMT -5
This great comic about the life of the chief of staff of the french prime minister (every one could see who that actually was) had two highly successfull and praised volumes, sold like cupcakes and got turned into a major motion picture with A-list talent in France. It was political and talked about politics, mostly of the behind the scenes kind. Maybe a way ti reach new readers would also be to start embracing other subjects than superheroes as prime focus. Most kids who currently fall in love with comics don't do so with superhero comics, and same with adults.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 10, 2017 11:08:15 GMT -5
ack. luv ya, but ack.
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Post by Spike-X on Aug 10, 2017 22:11:45 GMT -5
When people say, "Keep politics out of comics" they invariably mean, "politics I personally disagree with".
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 11, 2017 5:34:36 GMT -5
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 15, 2017 3:41:33 GMT -5
When people say, "Keep politics out of comics" they invariably mean, "politics I personally disagree with". not in my case. and again, although many here might disagree with how i feel the economics of comics should be paid out, i doubt that your personal/social politics differ from mine very much. I was speaking mainly of extreme right wing people using their comics careers as a pundit platform to as for social regression, versus progression. also saying 'they invariably mean' is too similar, for my own feelings, to language used by alt-right pundits to demean feminists and non anglo writers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 16:36:19 GMT -5
Not sure if I linked this article here before, it's from The Atlantic back in May and analyzes why sales are down for Marvel ways they they can possibly reach out and gain new readership and actually get people to stick around. It more focuses on what not to do thought, which is pretty much the way Marvel's business practices (an to a lesser extend DC's) are currently going about things. -M
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 12:43:18 GMT -5
Just a note for those who think comics can't sell-the new Asterix album, Asterix and the Chariot Race is being released next month, and initial orders for it are for over 5 million copies and it's already scheduled to go back to press. We celebrate a Batman event comic that has initial orders of 250K, and call it a great seller. Somewhere in there is a disconnect, 5 million + copies is ignored or dismissed as not counting by American comic fans, but 250K is celebrated as an achievement.
There's an audience out there for comics, American mainstream comics just aren't finding it, but instead of looking at what is succeeding and what it does differently to succeed, the American market ignores it, puts its head in the sand and thinks people will just come to American comics and make things all better without doing anything different.
-M
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 13:14:50 GMT -5
Those 5 million copies, is it worldwide ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 13:16:37 GMT -5
Those 5 million copies, is it worldwide ? Europe not worldwide, I believe. The last volume had 8 million worldwide pre-sales and about 5 million in Europe, so I believe the initial numbers here are just for Europe, but I would have to double check. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 13:21:25 GMT -5
That's interesting. Could it be the lack of appeal for caped Superheroes ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 13:37:25 GMT -5
That's interesting. Could it be the lack of appeal for caped Superheroes ? I think it is lack of appeal of overpriced undersized monthly pamphlets that do not tell complete stories only available at niche destination shops and geared only to a hardcore niche audience that doesn't number more than about 250K total if that anymore more so than lack of appeal of super-heroes in general, as super-heroes are more popular than ever in other mediums. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 15:38:59 GMT -5
How much does the Asterix book cost? I can't imagine if a brand new original book about Superman was released , it would reach 5 million units ordered.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 15:42:15 GMT -5
Years ago Starlin released a original GN called Cosmic Kid instead of releasing it as a 6 issue mini. I don't think it did well. Or even the recent Infinity HC's featuring Thanos and Warlock. Does anyone know how many of those sold?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 22:45:21 GMT -5
How much does the Asterix book cost? I can't imagine if a brand new original book about Superman was released , it would reach 5 million units ordered. If the book is targeted at the niche audience that prefers monthly floppies, just changing format isn't likely to make it appeal to a broader audience. Just look at the Earth One OGN and Season One OGNs Marvel and DC tried. The format changed, but the type of content was the same kind of stuff that only appeals to the hardcore niche audience. There is no market mechanism in place to get that kind of book to the wider audience. There are books that sell well to wider audiences, for instance Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl sold extremely well when offered by Scholastic, no exact numbers were available but anecdotal accounts put them at selling anywhere from 5 to 10 x the number of copies they did through Diamond in trade. That's not anywhere near Asterix numbers, but it's a damn bit more than anything coming out of the direct market not named Walking Dead is doing with wider audiences. Graphic novel imprints from the big 7 book publishers are doing very good numbers with OGNs in the book market (books like March featuring John Lewis's story) did very well in the book trade and each new volume of it (there are 3) have sparked more sales on previous volumes. It helps that Lewis and the creators did late night and early morning tv talk show appearances promoting the books when they came out, because they are sold like <gasp> books and promoted like books and put in places where people buy books, something comic publishers like Marvel and DC don't seem inclined to put much effort into anymore (if ever). (As an aside Sana Amanat did do appearances on Kimmel promoting Ms. Marvel and other Marvel stuff right around the time the books were tearing up Scholastic sales, coincidence?). The thing is comic publishers are slavishly devoted to the idea of if we build it they will come, even when they try other formats than the monthly floppy, but the sad truth is they aren't coming. You have to go to them, but that's work and investment and means you can't simply cater to the hardcore comic fan audience, collect your money and move on to the next event or cross-over. Taking a 6 issue comic story that doesn't appeal to a wider audience and repackaging it into a single volume (or bypassing serialization to put the same story out as an OGN) is not going to change anything. Doing that is missing the forest for the trees. You have to produce content the audience wants, and there is a demand for super-hero content out there, but not the continuity-porn never changing status quo pablum that is offered month in and month out to hardcore comic fans. If you produce product that caters only to an audience that numbers less than 250K and doesn't appeal to a wider audience, you cannot reasonably expect it to sell to a larger number than that. The conundrum for Marvel and DC right now is every time they produce content that might appeal to a wider audience, that niche audience rebels because they are not being catered to, and won't allow product to be produced for other markets even if it is in addition to (not instead of) the product they want. In order to find a bigger audience, they may have to let go of the hardcore niche that sustained them (but is not really doing that any more) unless some other solution is found. That is risky, There is no guarantee they will find a larger audience elsewhere, there is no doubt there core niche is shrinking via attrition and not finding any real growth without it being a zero sum gain (i.e. any growth in one area equals losses in other areas so there is no actual net gain or growth). The month Dark Metal #1 sold 250K units, the industry as a whole was down a sizable percentage, meaning even though DM sold 250K, everything else sold less and the overall market sold less for the month despite the one titles success. I don't foresee Marvel of DC doing anything that will change the current paradigm or find anything near the success of Asterix. As bad as things are in the current industry, they still benefit the most from the current status quo, so there is no inventive for them to challenge the status quo. There's no superficial change that will fix things. There are things that can be done to try to achieve growth, but they are small baby steps that won't change quarterly reports enough or soon enough to get the big 2 behind them. It's got to be grass roots, done by fans, creators, retailers, and publishers to build interest and get comics that will interest people into the hands of people who will appreciate reading them and potentially buy more of them. David Petersen (creator of Mouse Guard) had a lot to say on the subject at the Ringo Awards. Look at what some of the successful retailers (like those who win the Spirit of Retailing Eisner Awards) are doing to grow their customer base. Look at how the bib 7 book publishers are building their audiences/customer base for their OGN lines, etc. Asterix-like numbers in the US market is not going to happen overnight, and maybe not ever, but there can be growth, but not by doing the same old same old things and peddling the same old same old comics no matter what format they are in. -M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 9, 2017 23:04:38 GMT -5
While I do agree with much of what you say, I don't think comparing Asterix to Marvel and DC is unfair... Asterix is one single book, that comes out once every year or two (sometimes more)...even at $25 a pop (I have no idea what the actual price is), that's $125 million. call it every 2 years (which is a bit generous... this is the 7th book to be released since 2000) that's 60-65m per year... less than 2 months of diamond sales.
Perhaps a better question is could Marvel and DC skip the 40-50 monthly titles, just do events.. maybe in OGNs, maybe not, and make just as much?
Perhaps that niche market will spend it's 40-50m a month no matter what, so giving so much choice is just increasing costs needlessly.
Just something that popped into my brain.... after all back in the day when sales were so much higher, there were alot few books, too. Perhaps printing 1 million copies each of 5 titles instead of 50k each of 50 titles would make more sense?
Sure, fans would be in shock for a bit, but who cares if they still spend the money. And if there were only 5 marvel titles a month, would people be more likely to buy them all, just because they can?
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