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Post by masterofquackfu on Aug 28, 2017 11:14:52 GMT -5
I don't know about any of you, but I've always had a penchant for characters that exert massive levels of power. I'm not talking about Death or Eternity because they are beyond the scope of the power principle. I am talking about being like Galactus, Thanos, etc. Let's make a list and talk about these characters. Off the top of my head:
The High Evolutionary
Grandmaster
The Collector
The Stranger
The Over-Mind
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Post by brutalis on Aug 28, 2017 15:05:33 GMT -5
I would add to the list:
The Spectre
Dr. Fate
The Celestials from Eternals
The Phoenix Force
Captain Universe
Ego the living planet
A step down power wise:
All of Galactus Heralds: Silver Surfer, Firelord, Terrax specifically.
Captain Mar-Vell (as protector of the universe)
Adam Warlock
Nova
Odin
Zeus
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Post by batusi on Aug 28, 2017 22:05:55 GMT -5
Darkseid
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 23:30:08 GMT -5
One-Above-All.
The Living Tribunal
The Fulcrum
The In-Betweener
The Watcher
Galactus
The Beyonder
Aegis
Kronos
Eternity
Infinity
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 28, 2017 23:58:35 GMT -5
You guys are making my head hurt !
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Post by masterofquackfu on Aug 29, 2017 11:23:29 GMT -5
Can't believe I forgot about the LivingTribunal. Another one might be the Champion of the Universe. I remember a couple appearance by him.
Also...
The Magus
The Sphinx
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 29, 2017 12:18:32 GMT -5
Count me in as a fan of Marvel's cosmic pantheon. I remember some of those late 80's Marvel annuals that would feature illustrated power rankings of the various cosmic beings with descriptions. Loved that stuff. Once I got into Silver Surfer around 1989, and later the Starlin Infinity stuff, I was hooked for life.
I'm still miffed and confused at Hickman's rather lame version of the Beyonder's that still make little sense to me. How can a dimension exist OUTSIDE the multiverse and still be part of "the Marvel Universe?" It's always been my understanding that every published Marvel realm, dimension, pocket dimension, etc, by default, is part of the greater Marvel multiverse. If you were to include Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, Archie, etc, that would be an "omniverse" and only then would you beyond the scope of a multiverse. Eh.
Having them kill the Living Tribunal was absurd. Having his corpse sprawled out on the moon was equally absurd seeing as how the Tribunal doesn't have a true form. I only browsed the story and read a synopsis, but am I on point in coming to the conclusion that modern Marvel writers don't really understand the cosmic characters?
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Post by berkley on Aug 29, 2017 12:19:45 GMT -5
What's the name of the entity that gave Mar-Vell cosmic awareness - Eon? That one would be up there, presumably.
On the mystical-magical side of things there's Dormammu, Umar, Shuma-Gorath, maybe Thog (demonic villain from Man-Thing), ...
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Post by berkley on Aug 29, 2017 12:24:18 GMT -5
Count me in as a fan of Marvel's cosmic pantheon. I remember some of those late 80's Marvel annuals that would feature illustrated power rankings of the various cosmic beings with descriptions. Loved that stuff. Once I got into Silver Surfer around 1989, and later the Starlin Infinity stuff, I was hooked for life. I'm still miffed and confused at Hickman's rather lame version of the Beyonder's that still make little sense to me. How can a dimension exist OUTSIDE the multiverse and still be part of "the Marvel Universe?" It's always been my understanding that every published Marvel realm, dimension, pocket dimension, etc, by default, is part of the greater Marvel multiverse. If you were to include Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, Archie, etc, that would be an "omniverse" and only then would you beyond the scope of a multiverse. Eh. Having them kill the Living Tribunal was absurd. Having his corpse sprawled out on the moon was equally absurd seeing as how the Tribunal doesn't have a true form. I only browsed the story and read a synopsis, but am I on point in coming to the conclusion that modern Marvel writers don't really understand the cosmic characters? Haven't read any of that stuff but in general I feel that writers are too eager to go for whatever immediate or short-term dramatic effect they're looking for and they don't think much about the implications for the characters involved or the fictional universe as a whole. |
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Post by String on Aug 29, 2017 13:13:48 GMT -5
Count me in as a fan of Marvel's cosmic pantheon. I remember some of those late 80's Marvel annuals that would feature illustrated power rankings of the various cosmic beings with descriptions. Loved that stuff. Once I got into Silver Surfer around 1989, and later the Starlin Infinity stuff, I was hooked for life. I'm still miffed and confused at Hickman's rather lame version of the Beyonder's that still make little sense to me. How can a dimension exist OUTSIDE the multiverse and still be part of "the Marvel Universe?" It's always been my understanding that every published Marvel realm, dimension, pocket dimension, etc, by default, is part of the greater Marvel multiverse. If you were to include Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, Archie, etc, that would be an "omniverse" and only then would you beyond the scope of a multiverse. Eh. Having them kill the Living Tribunal was absurd. Having his corpse sprawled out on the moon was equally absurd seeing as how the Tribunal doesn't have a true form. I only browsed the story and read a synopsis, but am I on point in coming to the conclusion that modern Marvel writers don't really understand the cosmic characters? I would suggest that you look into Al Ewing's Ultimates and Ultimates2 titles. I've read some of the first series but from what I gather from other cosmic fans, Ewing is doing BIG IDEAS right. From the aftermath of Secret Wars, Ewing is re-establishing the proper Marvel cosmic canon while adding some mind-blowing additions. For example, in his first story arc, Ewing explores evolving Galactus into his true ultimate form, that how he is now, the devourer of worlds, isn't what he's meant to be in the cosmic order of things. It's sounds crazy but what he accomplishes here, what does happen to Galactus, makes you reconsider all of that and more. In relation to another thread here, Ewing actually addresses the idea of a sliding timescale and why one exists in-comic. It may not be your cup of tea but Ewing seems to be doing Marvel's cosmic side justice, with crazy concepts delivered with heart and characterization. That's the big difference for me between him and Hickman, Hickman can be so dry while he's expounding these big ideas. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 30, 2017 9:56:30 GMT -5
Count me in as a fan of Marvel's cosmic pantheon. I remember some of those late 80's Marvel annuals that would feature illustrated power rankings of the various cosmic beings with descriptions. Loved that stuff. Once I got into Silver Surfer around 1989, and later the Starlin Infinity stuff, I was hooked for life. I'm still miffed and confused at Hickman's rather lame version of the Beyonder's that still make little sense to me. How can a dimension exist OUTSIDE the multiverse and still be part of "the Marvel Universe?" It's always been my understanding that every published Marvel realm, dimension, pocket dimension, etc, by default, is part of the greater Marvel multiverse. If you were to include Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, Archie, etc, that would be an "omniverse" and only then would you beyond the scope of a multiverse. Eh. Having them kill the Living Tribunal was absurd. Having his corpse sprawled out on the moon was equally absurd seeing as how the Tribunal doesn't have a true form. I only browsed the story and read a synopsis, but am I on point in coming to the conclusion that modern Marvel writers don't really understand the cosmic characters? Haven't read any of that stuff but in general I feel that writers are too eager to go for whatever immediate or short-term dramatic effect they're looking for and they don't think much about the implications for the characters involved or the fictional universe as a whole. I agree. I realize that most of these cosmic beings (with the exceptions of characters like Galactus) are little more than plot devices to most writers, but I think it's clear that they were a little better defined and handled with more care and respect in the 80's and early 90's, particularly during the period that Mark Gruenwald held editorial sway. To be fair this isn't really a new phenomena. Galactus was little more than a cosmic punching bag until John Byrne expanded on his character and restored him to the nuanced characterization that Lee/Kirby intended with his "beyond good and evil" persona. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 30, 2017 10:05:33 GMT -5
Count me in as a fan of Marvel's cosmic pantheon. I remember some of those late 80's Marvel annuals that would feature illustrated power rankings of the various cosmic beings with descriptions. Loved that stuff. Once I got into Silver Surfer around 1989, and later the Starlin Infinity stuff, I was hooked for life. I'm still miffed and confused at Hickman's rather lame version of the Beyonder's that still make little sense to me. How can a dimension exist OUTSIDE the multiverse and still be part of "the Marvel Universe?" It's always been my understanding that every published Marvel realm, dimension, pocket dimension, etc, by default, is part of the greater Marvel multiverse. If you were to include Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, Archie, etc, that would be an "omniverse" and only then would you beyond the scope of a multiverse. Eh. Having them kill the Living Tribunal was absurd. Having his corpse sprawled out on the moon was equally absurd seeing as how the Tribunal doesn't have a true form. I only browsed the story and read a synopsis, but am I on point in coming to the conclusion that modern Marvel writers don't really understand the cosmic characters? I would suggest that you look into Al Ewing's Ultimates and Ultimates2 titles. I've read some of the first series but from what I gather from other cosmic fans, Ewing is doing BIG IDEAS right. From the aftermath of Secret Wars, Ewing is re-establishing the proper Marvel cosmic canon while adding some mind-blowing additions. For example, in his first story arc, Ewing explores evolving Galactus into his true ultimate form, that how he is now, the devourer of worlds, isn't what he's meant to be in the cosmic order of things. It's sounds crazy but what he accomplishes here, what does happen to Galactus, makes you reconsider all of that and more. In relation to another thread here, Ewing actually addresses the idea of a sliding timescale and why one exists in-comic. It may not be your cup of tea but Ewing seems to be doing Marvel's cosmic side justice, with crazy concepts delivered with heart and characterization. That's the big difference for me between him and Hickman, Hickman can be so dry while he's expounding these big ideas. I find it nearly impossible to get into modern Marvel comics outside of their Star Wars comics. I browsed the first issue, but I take it that this Ultimates team are going to solve Galactus' problems for him? I couldn't help but eye-roll a bit and feel that this illustrates my problem with modern writers take on cosmic stories like this.  |
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Post by berkley on Aug 30, 2017 10:49:26 GMT -5
I would suggest that you look into Al Ewing's Ultimates and Ultimates2 titles. I've read some of the first series but from what I gather from other cosmic fans, Ewing is doing BIG IDEAS right. From the aftermath of Secret Wars, Ewing is re-establishing the proper Marvel cosmic canon while adding some mind-blowing additions. For example, in his first story arc, Ewing explores evolving Galactus into his true ultimate form, that how he is now, the devourer of worlds, isn't what he's meant to be in the cosmic order of things. It's sounds crazy but what he accomplishes here, what does happen to Galactus, makes you reconsider all of that and more. In relation to another thread here, Ewing actually addresses the idea of a sliding timescale and why one exists in-comic. It may not be your cup of tea but Ewing seems to be doing Marvel's cosmic side justice, with crazy concepts delivered with heart and characterization. That's the big difference for me between him and Hickman, Hickman can be so dry while he's expounding these big ideas. I find it nearly impossible to get into modern Marvel comics outside of their Star Wars comics. I browsed the first issue, but I take it that this Ultimates team are going to solve Galactus' problems for him? I couldn't help but eye-roll a bit and feel that this illustrates my problem with modern writers take on cosmic stories like this. Again, I haven't read much since the early 80s but I agree with the general sentiment: too often these supposedly awe-inspiring entities are shown by writers being defeated or rescued or taught a lesson in morality or whatever by the superhero protagonists they're trying to boost, which to my mind completely defeats the purpose of them. I think they need to be used sparingly and handled with great care when they are used. It should be a special occasion when Dr. Strange has to face Dormammu, and they should take some pointers from the early days when it dangerous even to say his name, never mind making wisecracks at him. The way I see it, if he isn't very much "the Dread Dormammu" to all the other characters there's no point having him in the comic (mind you, Ditko himself dropped the ball on this with that anti-climactic "Pincers of Power" story). (edit:) I looked up the Ewing Ultimates to see what the artwork looked like and there was one picture of Eternity in chains, or something like that: now I'd have to read the story to say for sure, but right off the bat that looks suspiciously like it's going to be one of those stories where the "awe-inspiring" cosmic entity has to be rescued by the all-too-human superhero and thus is no longer all that awe-inspiring. So I'm pretty sceptical. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 2, 2017 11:01:55 GMT -5
Count me out as a fan of Marvel's cosmic characters. I can tolerate them in Thor or Dr. Strange, where they make some sense in context, but storylines about such entities interacting with Earth's human heroes have never interested me (with the exception of a handful of Galactus stories). Put simply, any villain whose goal is to rule or destroy the universe is a big, fat, automatic "Nope!" for yours truly.
Cei-U!
I summon the #1 reason I can't warm up to Jim Starlin's comics!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 2, 2017 11:08:41 GMT -5
As a general rule, none of them. I have never been a fan of super powerful characters. I've always preferred "street-level" characters. The exception is when you have high quality creators doing something interesting with the characters. So Ostrander/Mandrake's Spectre.
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