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Post by Outrajs on Oct 9, 2017 9:12:47 GMT -5
Why do we love characters like Superman, Captain America, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, and Spiderman? What makes Magneto, Lex Luthor, and the Joker our go-to villains? What is it about these characters that make them so popular? Is it the writing, the illustrations, or their own make-up and characteristics? Good or bad. Villain or hero. Why do they deserve the popularity they have received? (This is by far a non-exhaustive list.)
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 9, 2017 10:32:52 GMT -5
Well since I started collecting comics as a teen, in the 90's I can say Wolverine feeds the badass, but under appreciated and don't give a crap, feeling most teenagers feel. Combined with claws that come out of your hands and a healing factor that makes it where you can beat about anything/one, who wouldn't want to be that dude. Plus he smoked and drank. Omg, who couldn't like him? Even as I went back and read earlier issues in the ongoing series and the first mini-series, he was written very similarly. Then the tortured soul when the woman he loved died. The only woman that could reach his gentle side and calm the beast within. Then much of his invulnerability was taken when Magento leached his adamantium and he was left with bone claws and skeleton only. So now he has to deal with that, and figuring out how to not let his weakness get the best of him and still be "the best at what he does".
I think after he got back his adamantium the series took a bit of a nose dive to me. They had done some major things to the character by issue #100 an there didn't seem much else to do. Push the Wolverine/Cyclops/Jean vomit inducing love triangle, get revenge on Magento, fight Galactus, bring Sabertooth back, etc.
I also never cared for him with the X-Men other than a few isolated stories. Mostly encounters with the Brood. I liked him better as a loner, since that is what appealed to me most. I don't care about soap opera romances in my comics, and that seemed to never happen in his own ongoing series but Mariko. And that was actually written well, unlike Jean/Wolverine.
You can always do things with Wolverine that is going to appeal to that badass don't give a "f" attitude that will appeal to new readers and new generations. The downside of that is, mostly, old readers are going to give up because this a defining characteristic of Wolverine and one that sells the comics. So never likely to change. But that's okay. As I still have the stories that I have that I can read and a few issues still missing early in the series to get.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 13:20:04 GMT -5
I love the Bronze age Superman because he was the first responder to the world. Every issue has him averting a earthquake or other disaster. He's great.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 14:21:35 GMT -5
Superman always stood out to me as we were both raised in a rural setting. My parents remind me of Ma and Pa Kent--the way they brought my brother and I up to always do the right thing. Just seeing Superman inspires hope (to me, at least!) On a wider scale, Superman was one of the first marketable super heroes and almost every generation has had its Superman from Kirk Alyn to Henry Cavill. I think his appeal is more from the movies and merchandising rather than comics. Many people I know that really like Superman just know him from tv shows, movies, cartoon, and merchandise.
I think Wonder Woman really struck a chord with the world thanks to the Lynda Carter show. I loved the recent movie, but the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman will always be my ideal of the character.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 9, 2017 14:51:05 GMT -5
I have to confess to never watching Wonder Woman when it was on TV.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 17:39:48 GMT -5
For me, it's Adam West that brought Batman to life and saved the Batman Title from cancellation and to me, he's always be my Batman today and forever. I've met him 4 times in my life and he was kind, personable, and considerate to his fans. Christopher Reeve - embodied the spirit of Superman and once Superman the Movie came on - I dream that a man can fly and he brought that character to life in a Modern Spirit just like George Reeves years ago. He was perfect in everyway possible and that's made Superman great. With these two actors - Superman will always be my favorite hero. Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman - man, she fits the bill just spot on, perfect, and truly plays the part just magnificently and she made it very real to me. Too Bad, that they didn't make a Justice League Movie back then with Christopher Reeve and Lynda Carter headlining it; along with Adam West supporting it. It would be a dream to see these three making a JLA Movie back then ... it would be sight to see!
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Post by brutalis on Oct 10, 2017 9:04:31 GMT -5
It all depends on the time and place in your life as to what makes these spandex covered folk so great. For many it is that initial surge of adrenaline found upon your 1st exposure, whether it is in a cartoon, s comic book, a television show or a movie makes no difference. What creates such an impact is the visualization which is burned into your mind. You may find a personal connection with an individual character or feel you are a part of a greater whole or fill a void in your heart, mind or soul or just believe they are your personal friend in life. Once the bond is forged it cannot be broken. Seeing a cover, or a cartoon or a movie or TV show instantly reminds you of the importance these super folk. They helped you when ill, helped you through the tough times in life, help you strive for being better or achieving greater. They comfort and nourish and protect and guide us with their stories and adventures. Even villains have their role to play in our lives, showing us the differences between wrong and right, greed and sharing, ignorance and learning, selfishness and selflessness and so much more. When you find that connection in those aspecst of the characters which sticks with you and it is forever the very best version that you hold dearest. Like Icctrombone my Superman is ALWAYS the 1st hero on the spot in every circumstance and he can move worlds and people with his heroism. My Batman is the World's Greatest Dark Knight Detective who triumphs over criminals both petty and powerful with his brains, skills and determination. My Spider-Man carries a guilty heart which inspires him to fight villainy because it his gift and responsibility in doing so because his powers grant him the ability to help protect his friends, family and the world around him. They are heroic ideals meant to inspire and encourage and entertain us all at the same time. That is what makes them great...
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 10, 2017 9:13:16 GMT -5
I think a lot of it is transient and cultural.
Superman, the benevolent adult who always tries to do the right thing, has been passed in popularity by Batman - the manchild who's emotional growth stopped at age 8.
That says a lot about the values of my generation, imo. 😂
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 10, 2017 9:34:06 GMT -5
It all depends on the time and place in your life as to what makes these spandex covered folk so great. I think a lot of it is transient and cultural. Superman, the benevolent adult who always tries to do the right thing, has been passed in popularity by Batman - the manchild who's emotional growth stopped at age 8. That says a lot about the values of my generation, imo. 😂 This I can see even inside of less than 25 years collecting comics. Not that it is restricted to only comics. It's why The Avengers still has an appeal to me. Steed was the male role model. Mrs Peel was my first crush. These feelings, for me, will still superseded an unbiased look at the show in it's quality or relevance to modern culture. However, Wolverine, as described in my first post, doesn't hold the appeal he did at one time. I mean, sure I like reading old Wolverine issues, but it's more the quality of that particular story, than the appeal of the character himself. I think it is the impact that something has on you at whatever point in your life as to whether the greatness of it will stand the test of time, with each individual. Quality can be subjective as to it's greatness to individuals. Most readers of X-Men of many years wouldn't put Age of Apocalypse on the pedestal I do, because it wasn't their first X-Men story. Or the style of 90's art didn't appeal to them as that decade came around. But to me, it's the best X-Men story. It impacted me as nothing I had seen on the 90's X-Men cartoon, which is all I knew of the X-Men before buying comics. It's one of those stories that isn't transient, like Wolverine's character as a whole.
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Post by Outrajs on Oct 11, 2017 8:55:56 GMT -5
Well since I started collecting comics as a teen, in the 90's I can say Wolverine feeds the badass, but under appreciated and don't give a crap, feeling most teenagers feel. Combined with claws that come out of your hands and a healing factor that makes it where you can beat about anything/one, who wouldn't want to be that dude. Plus he smoked and drank. Omg, who couldn't like him? Even as I went back and read earlier issues in the ongoing series and the first mini-series, he was written very similarly. Then the tortured soul when the woman he loved died. The only woman that could reach his gentle side and calm the beast within. Then much of his invulnerability was taken when Magento leached his adamantium and he was left with bone claws and skeleton only. So now he has to deal with that, and figuring out how to not let his weakness get the best of him and still be "the best at what he does". This is an amazing summary and explanation! (And precisely what I was looking for.) I will say because of it I have a new appreciation for a character that I tend not to like (although if you ask my role playing buddies I tend towards the Wolverine/Punisher type characters). I always struggle with the anti-hero persona. It all stemmed from a paper I had to write in college where we had to say a specific character was a hero and why. I don't believe someone who basically does bad things and then does one good one is a hero...but that is beside the point. Seriously though, I am impressed with this! You may have changed my mind and that isn't an easy thing to do!
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Post by Outrajs on Oct 11, 2017 8:57:55 GMT -5
I have to confess to never watching Wonder Woman when it was on TV. I think you just made my heart stop!
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Post by Outrajs on Oct 11, 2017 9:02:36 GMT -5
It all depends on the time and place in your life as to what makes these spandex covered folk so great. For many it is that initial surge of adrenaline found upon your 1st exposure, whether it is in a cartoon, s comic book, a television show or a movie makes no difference. What creates such an impact is the visualization which is burned into your mind. You may find a personal connection with an individual character or feel you are a part of a greater whole or fill a void in your heart, mind or soul or just believe they are your personal friend in life. This is fantastic in a general and overall sense. True in every word. But who is it that gets into your soul? Is it the true goodness for the sake of good in Captain America? Is it the "bring the world together" of Superman (who although his catchphrase was Truth, Justice, and the American Way - loved all people). Is it the "I don't need to prove myself, I just need to be who I am" of Wonder Woman? Who is your inspiration?
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Post by brutalis on Oct 11, 2017 10:27:53 GMT -5
It all depends on the time and place in your life as to what makes these spandex covered folk so great. For many it is that initial surge of adrenaline found upon your 1st exposure, whether it is in a cartoon, s comic book, a television show or a movie makes no difference. What creates such an impact is the visualization which is burned into your mind. You may find a personal connection with an individual character or feel you are a part of a greater whole or fill a void in your heart, mind or soul or just believe they are your personal friend in life. This is fantastic in a general and overall sense. True in every word. But who is it that gets into your soul? Is it the true goodness for the sake of good in Captain America? Is it the "bring the world together" of Superman (who although his catchphrase was Truth, Justice, and the American Way - loved all people). Is it the "I don't need to prove myself, I just need to be who I am" of Wonder Woman? Who is your inspiration? My own personal: was the more outside mainstream folks in DC: Metamorpho for enduring and overcoming his own personal hardships: changed into a freak, struggling with the father of woman he loves and through it all being positive and never giving up. Doom Patrol: the freaks who were not so freakish and more human than many others in putting aside their difficulties and differences to build their friendship and fight for others (in a way more of what the new X-Men became) every day. The big DC was Batman: to see your parents killed, and using that grief and suffering to swear eternally to fight crime and never truly for the sake of just achieving revenge or vengeance but because your soul burns so passionately that others will not have to endure what you suffer. And then taking on the additional burden of raising a child who lost his parents and even with the mistakes you make the two of you create a lasting bond of admiration and love. Marvel was Spider-Man: the loner and nerd who when he gained his powers went and did what most any normal person would do: use them for personal gain. Then in ignoring a criminal he could have stopped he loses someone he loves and that loss drives him to try and correct that mistake every day of his life and that while he achieves great things with his hero identity he still seems to continue having the worst of luck in his personal life but never gives up and continues to strive for doing the right things.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 11, 2017 13:18:27 GMT -5
For Superman, it was the spectacular stunts and the fact that he was an honest, true hero. he epitomized everything I was taught about ethics and honesty. Really, I learned more about those subjects from Superman than any other source. I watched the Filmation cartoons and read the comics, before seeing a classic unfold on the movie screen, as Christopher Reeve embodied the man (I saw the George Reeves tv series, later).
For Batman, it was the gadgets and colorful villains, as well as the mysteries. The Filmation cartoons and the 66 movie were big elements in that, as well as Sesame Street, whihc had two cartoons egments, created by Filmation (and one for Superman).
Wonder Woman I first discovered in the comics and liked her and then watched the two pilot movies (Cathy Lee Crosby and Lynda Carter). I adored the first season of the tv show, set in WW2. I missed it when it switched to CBS (we couldn't tune in the affiliate well); but, later viewings found it to fall well below the first season.
Wolverine I can take or leave. He's been done well and poorly. I do remember being attracted to the design of the character when I saw the ad for his debut, in the hulk. I didn't see the issue; but, the ad had me hooked. i got to see more of him in the revived X-men, as a cousin had a decent selection of the early issues. He was a bit too obnoxious of a character for me to ever really like.
Spider-Man was never that big on my list. In the 70s, he was pretty darn whiny and I didn't enjoy much of his own comic. I liked him a lot better in Marvel Team-Up. I didn't get to see much of the Gantray-Lowell cartoons (just a couple of episodes); so that wasn't a factor. i did see the Nicholas Hammond tv series. Yeesh! I never quite bought into the character, as he had the smarts and technical skills to make plenty of money, yet always seemed short of it. It just didn't add up, in my book. I've read a decent selection of stories over the years and there are plenty of good ones; but, he varies wildly for me.
Luthor I only really liked under Eliott Maggin's pen. He got inside his head and made him into something more than criminal mad scientist. I hated billionaire Luthor. Clancy brown's version, in the animated series, was a decent middle ground. The Joker I never cared for, outside of the animated series; preferring Penguin and Two-Face and loving Catwoman. I started reading him in the 7s, when the classic villains were kept small, to give them more impact. Ra's al Ghul was a bigger deal then, as well as other international and criminal threats. Hugo Strange, under Engelhart and Rogers, was far more interesting than the freakish villains.
Captain America was just one that I fell in love with, when I first saw one of his omics (with gene Colan on art). he was spectacular and that costume just worked so well. The man is action personified, which made some weaker stories of the era more palatable, until better writers came along.
Magneto was actually pretty boring, until he got some fleshing out, in the early 80s. Prior to that, he was more of a cackling villain. Claremont seemed to flesh him out with the story that led into #150, and then in the flashback issue, where he and prof. X take on the early HYDRA.
Dr Doom is the villain that I find most interesting, at Marvel. He is both evil and sympathetic and has a presence that most others lack. i just wish they would have got him out of the green dress, into better looking clothes. Marvel overdid the green for the villains; but, that was a factor of the por coloring, in the 60s.
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Post by MDG on Oct 11, 2017 13:56:12 GMT -5
People are writing a lot here, but I think the characters that really last and capture the public have a clear, definitive image and personality that can be boiled down to a dozen words or less.
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